Author Topic: New 4 Stroke - Without Conventional Valves  (Read 32367 times)

Offline dsquire

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New 4 Stroke - Without Conventional Valves
« on: March 20, 2010, 03:30:33 PM »
Hi guys

Here is another idea for anyone contemplating the design of a new and different motor.  :doh:
Comments would be appreciated.

http://www.new4stroke.com/

Cheers  :beer:

Don

Edit:
Initially the subject was "New 4 Stroke - Without Valves". Bernd made the comment about conventional valves so I edited the subject to
"New 4 Stroke - Without Conventional Valves". That is why Bernd made the comment that he did.
I hope that I have everyone thoroughly confused. I know I am. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Don
« Last Edit: March 20, 2010, 04:07:33 PM by dsquire »
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Offline Bernd

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Re: New 4 Stroke - Without Conventional Valves
« Reply #1 on: March 20, 2010, 03:39:52 PM »
Very interesting Don. I don't think you can call it with out valves. Without conventional valves maybe. Looks like the two smaller pistons act as valves opening and closing on a port.

Bernd
« Last Edit: March 20, 2010, 03:44:44 PM by dsquire »
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Offline Bluechip

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Re: New 4 Stroke - Without Conventional Valves
« Reply #2 on: March 20, 2010, 04:11:40 PM »
Hi Don

Quite novel. But, as he seems to have been working on it since 1980-ish., I don't think it's going anywhere.   :(  particularly as we seem to be going electric ....

It seems to be a popular pastime with some humans to seek a better solution to getting stuff in and out of I.C. engine cylinders, yet ... we always come back to the poppet valve.

I have a book entitled 'Valve Mechanisms for High Speed Engines' .. full of stuff on the subject. Practically none were ever successful except the sleeve valve.The Cross and Aspin rotary valves showed promise, but had lubrication problems that were never sorted it appears. None about now AFAIK . 

(Seems the book is quite valuable   :D  :D  I got mine for £0.50p years ago) .

http://www.bookfinder.com/search/?isbn=0837600197&st=xl&ac=qr&src=dir

Of course mine is even more valuable, on account of it's exalted owner ... :lol:

Dave BC
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Offline Bernd

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Re: New 4 Stroke - Without Conventional Valves
« Reply #3 on: March 21, 2010, 12:25:09 PM »
Leave it to my nit-picking that's cause the confusion.

The reason I say "without conventional valves" is that everybody knows what a valve in an IC engine looks like. To my way of thinking, and it may not be presice, is that something that opens and closes a hole or port is sort of a valve. You are controlling the intake and exhust of a gas or liquid.

Bernd
Route of the Black Diamonds

Offline Dean W

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Re: New 4 Stroke - Without Conventional Valves
« Reply #4 on: March 21, 2010, 09:23:01 PM »
Pretty neat, Don.  I think your original title is appropriate.  It doesn't have valves, it has ports.
Bluechip saw just what I did when I first saw this.  The poor guy is working on a better mouse trap at a time when people no longer want to catch mice.  ; )  Just bad luck, I guess.

Dean
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Offline Feliks

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Re: New 4 Stroke - Without Conventional Valves
« Reply #5 on: May 27, 2010, 05:35:37 PM »
 
Really simple machine:

"Salt  water  extraction"




http://www.new4stroke.com/pompa.pdf


And sallt water Tank:




1 m^3 / sec   if  H = 100 m   give ~~ 1 MW ( 1000 KW) electric energy

Details : http://www.new4stroke.com/salt%20water%20pumped%20storage.pdf

Regards Andrew  :coffee: :coffee:

Offline Feliks

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Re: New 4 Stroke - Without Conventional Valves
« Reply #6 on: July 17, 2010, 07:30:04 PM »
Drive for pump  or oscillating dynamo:



Will it be possible the new  World Energy Policy in line
with this map ??

http://www.new4stroke.com/Heightwave.PDF

Regards Andrew  :wave:

Offline Feliks

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Re: New 4 Stroke - Without Conventional Valves
« Reply #7 on: August 06, 2010, 06:19:58 PM »
Well, who would have thought that Newcomen was so close to an adequate solution  ::)






Regards Andrew  :coffee: :coffee:

Offline dsquire

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Re: New 4 Stroke - Without Conventional Valves
« Reply #8 on: August 06, 2010, 06:35:14 PM »
Feliks

I have posted the corrected link to your post above. They both look the same until you click on them then the difference shows up.

http://www.new4stroke.com/Heightwave.PDF

Thanks for posting this information.

Cheers  :beer:

Don
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Offline Feliks

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Re: New 4 Stroke - Without Conventional Valves
« Reply #9 on: August 07, 2010, 02:19:36 PM »
Feliks

I have posted the corrected link to your post above. They both look the same until you click on them then the difference shows up.

http://www.new4stroke.com/Heightwave.PDF

Thanks for posting this information.

Cheers  :beer:

Don

Many thanks for right link. :bow:
I have no idea what happened. For example, on an identical post is all about good

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=66&t=157463&mid=44869&i=320&nmt=RE:%204%20Stroke%20Redesigned&mid=44869

Regards Andrew  :beer:

Offline Feliks

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Re: New 4 Stroke - Without Conventional Valves
« Reply #10 on: August 11, 2010, 03:48:38 PM »
Well, who would have thought that Newcomen was so close to an adequate solution  ::)



I also very close to the Technology


Regards Andrew   ::)

Offline Feliks

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Re: New 4 Stroke - Without Conventional Valves
« Reply #11 on: August 12, 2010, 05:31:28 AM »
I think that this technology is very effective. Can you imagine that by doing the same movement up and down through the traditional piston-connecting rod-crankshaft to get the same ease the movement of this vehicle?
I think that it would then be much harder work. And these four , the looks on it, they not liked to work more than need....

Can you feel it ??

Regards Andrew :wave:

Offline Feliks

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Re: New 4 Stroke - Without Conventional Valves
« Reply #12 on: August 16, 2010, 07:37:26 AM »
However and that will  had such a good humor, just take a timber and a little grease lubricated.  ::)

Do not need any oil !!     :D

Seal or Teflon or lubricated with diesel fuel.

OIl = diesel fuel in this picture





Regards Andrew :doh:

Offline Feliks

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Re: New 4 Stroke - Without Conventional Valves
« Reply #13 on: September 04, 2010, 09:06:04 PM »
And it is something without valves (but with ports) ::)




<a href="http://www.new4stroke.com/silnik.exe" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://www.new4stroke.com/silnik.exe</a>

Ctrl + > step

In a larger scale to better see:



Diameter popped 75 mm , diameter piston 76.5 mm




Weight popped 75 mm 1000 G
weight piston & rod 76.5 mm 850 G
weight popped 62 mm 400 G
weight piston & rod 62 mm 370 G

But the window of the flight of the valve of 75 mm is only 64 mm, what is very similar to the window of the flight piston 62 mm .

That is it results from it that the valve of 75 mm is giving the same flight as the piston 62 mm that is 1000 G to 370 G !!!!!

==~~ 2.5 more weight popped to piston& rod !!

It only looks impossibly. but this way is. :doh:

Regards Andrew :coffee: :coffee:





Offline HS93

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Re: New 4 Stroke - Without Conventional Valves
« Reply #14 on: September 05, 2010, 03:48:35 AM »
this may be of interest, but most people on hear have proberly seen them.

they made an incredable sound, also used in boats


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Napier_Deltic

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/theblackwatch/tech1.htm

&feature=related

Peter
I am usless at metalwork, Oh and cannot spell either . failure

Offline Feliks

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Re: New 4 Stroke - Without Conventional Valves
« Reply #15 on: September 05, 2010, 06:24:57 AM »
this may be of interest, but most people on hear have proberly seen them.

they made an incredable sound, also used in boats


Peter

I am very curious about what these people have heard of many problems of my design.
I wonder on what basis?
I too was afraid of many things when designing my second prototype. And he surprised me in plus 2, 5 times than assumed.
Deltic is only half the road, initially based on the old structure of Junkes and Rols Royce.
Other mutations could be called Theta (four Crankshaft), or Omega (five Crankshaft)

My design has, for example, variable compression ratio, using a coupling device and the main cam shaft, but changing the compression on all cylinders.
and that gives more or less, such possibilities



And the truth is the greatest power density of such a mutation dale Half Rotate engine.



Below picture of the star half rotate around 10 (40) with "cylinders". for the transparency of the picture one can see only 3 additional "cylinders" more than is at the animated film.
One can also see dimensions of the whole of the engine in the assumption that every cylinder has such dimensions for the picture half rotate with the set connecting rod of the Sulzer D= engine of 900 mm and stroke 2500 m




So 10 (40) "cylindrical" engine half rotate about the same working capacity in comparing to the Sulzer 10 engine cylindrical on the picture below .

Sulzer: 10 Cylinders 20 m long , 15 m hight , 1500 Ton weight

Half rotate star : 10(40) "Cylinders" 4,5 m diameter , 4,5 m long
about 70 ton weight.





And most importantly.. Since in the engine half rotate mass innertia are several times Sulzer smaller than in the engine, engine half rotate can work with the much greater rotation speed.
Slzer : 102 RPM 60 000 KW

Half rotate 250 RPM 150 000 KW

In same intake work volume ...

Regards Andrew  :coffee: :coffee:







Offline HS93

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Re: New 4 Stroke - Without Conventional Valves
« Reply #16 on: September 05, 2010, 07:47:04 AM »
MY post was related to post ONE.

Peter
I am usless at metalwork, Oh and cannot spell either . failure

Offline Dean W

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Re: New 4 Stroke - Without Conventional Valves
« Reply #17 on: September 05, 2010, 05:57:33 PM »

I am very curious about what these people have heard of many problems of my design.
I wonder on what basis?


No one said anything about your "design".  The original post was just a comment on a port operated
engine.  Sorry, but personally I can't make head or tails of all the misc non-related pictures you put up scattered
about this thread.  A lake, a surfer, random animations, pieces of engine parts, a RR pumper car. 
 :bang:
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Offline Feliks

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Re: New 4 Stroke - Without Conventional Valves
« Reply #18 on: September 06, 2010, 09:43:19 AM »

I am very curious about what these people have heard of many problems of my design.
I wonder on what basis?


No one said anything about your "design".  The original post was just a comment on a port operated
engine.  Sorry, but personally I can't make head or tails of all the misc non-related pictures you put up scattered
about this thread.  A lake, a surfer, random animations, pieces of engine parts, a RR pumper car. 
 :bang:

Ok Dean , this problem : no native my English  :beer:

Some related :
 Engine  "Twin Feliks"



or traditional half rotate



Regards Andrew :wave:





Offline Feliks

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Re: New 4 Stroke - Without Conventional Valves
« Reply #19 on: September 13, 2010, 06:09:56 PM »
Some of the other barrel, but also goes beyond the "box"

The first windmills pumped water in America. To sustain this good tradition, I developed a little more modern sytem for the production of electric current in a similar way of pumping water.Whether American landscape views, are water sphere.I decided to add this view to the next shot where the water will be collected water so that it could give electrical energy when draining it back into the lower reservoir.




This water will be pumped sphery as in the first versions of windmills, wind.
The wind turbine will move a small diameter, but it is a multi-blade, placed together with the hydraulic pump in the middle of a specially constructed balloon. Balloon will be tethered, as previously barrage balloons.
Only that will go along the line, hydraulic pipes, the hydraulic motor, which will be driven water pump located in the lower reservoir.The water pump will continuously pump water to sphery. Now the water falling from the lower reservoir back to the shery, will do an electric current through hydrogenerator.






Every so water sphere about the capacity of 2000 m 3, and the height  100 m  can give power 10  MW for 3 minutes. If filling pumps water with the one I believe loss is managing to fill waters up, we will have it 10 MW driven with wind  turbine in balloons.
Of course, the balloons could be filled up by hydrogen, because today we have very good material on the shell.
This system could be installed in any place where electricity is needed, and thus would have limited losses on the transfer.
Also low noise, and the invisibility of the rotating blades, not to interfere in coexistence with the environment.Balloons can be affixed to a height of 150 to 200 meters, where the wind is always blowing on the ground even when there is absolute silence.

some links:
http://media.primezone.com/cache/189/int/8385.jpg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mu2glpmRXIs&feature=player_embedded#!

http://www.engadget.com/2010/06/21/northrop-grumman-wins-contract-to-build-us-armys-long-endurance/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3n5cUaG5fg&feature=player_embedded

Regar


Of course, two rotate in one direction and two in the opposite direction.
You must use a very light hydraulic oil. If it were not frozen in winter.
Hydraulic pump in the balloon has the best power to weight ratio. All the airlines are working on the hydraulic actuators.
Of course, all of the balloon must be tested in the wind tunnel aerodynamic, in order to fully match the efficiency of the 21st century.

Some pictures of how to create a balloon from the inside  ;)






and NASCAR wind tunnel




Regards Andrew  :doh:

Offline HS93

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Re: New 4 Stroke - Without Conventional Valves
« Reply #20 on: September 14, 2010, 01:12:08 AM »
Have I missed something?   :bang:

 :ddb:Peter :ddb:
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Offline Feliks

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Re: New 4 Stroke - Without Conventional Valves
« Reply #21 on: September 14, 2010, 06:31:36 PM »
Have I missed something?   :bang:

 :ddb:Peter :ddb:

I think not ... :loco:

There is a way to shorten a bit of flexible hydraulic tube...



Well, if it accidentally escaped gas from the balloon and so it can be  :doh:



Regards Andrew  :wave: :wave:

Offline Dean W

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Re: New 4 Stroke - Without Conventional Valves
« Reply #22 on: September 14, 2010, 06:52:24 PM »
Have I missed something?   :bang:


Who knows?  Someone starts a thread about a valveless 4 stroke, and somehow another person thinks
pictures of surfing, balloons, weird drawings, and a lake are relevant.  No connection, but to each his own!
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Offline Bernd

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Re: New 4 Stroke - Without Conventional Valves
« Reply #23 on: September 15, 2010, 09:10:13 AM »
Have I missed something?   :bang:


Who knows?  Someone starts a thread about a valveless 4 stroke, and somehow another person thinks
pictures of surfing, balloons, weird drawings, and a lake are relevant.  No connection, but to each his own!

Back at post #5 is were the train derailed. Something about a Polish patent on "new4stroke". Follow the link to see.

Bernd
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Offline Feliks

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Re: New 4 Stroke - Without Conventional Valves
« Reply #24 on: September 15, 2010, 01:26:22 PM »
Name  :  Jazz Big Band





and some new :

New rod differential at animations Solid Works when one axle stop.




Regards Andrew :wave:

Offline AdeV

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Re: New 4 Stroke - Without Conventional Valves
« Reply #25 on: September 15, 2010, 01:41:57 PM »
Andrew, without wishing to be rude, what are you actually trying to show us?

Most of your pictures/animations come without any explanation whatsoever, and they don't seem to be related in the slightest. I appreciate that English isn't your 1st language - why not just put a full explanation in your own language, and maybe someone here would then be able to provide a translation.

At the moment, this whole thing just leaves me puzzled  :scratch: and thinking that maybe, well:  :loco:
Cheers!
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Offline Bernd

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Re: New 4 Stroke - Without Conventional Valves
« Reply #26 on: September 15, 2010, 03:44:08 PM »
Have to agree with you Ade.  :scratch:   :loco:

Bernd
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Offline slowcoach

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Re: New 4 Stroke - Without Conventional Valves
« Reply #27 on: September 26, 2010, 07:23:22 AM »
I'm enjoying this thread. I can't wait to see his next post  :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: New 4 Stroke - Without Conventional Valves
« Reply #28 on: September 26, 2010, 05:07:59 PM »
Whats going on here  :scratch: 

Rob

Offline doubleboost

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Re: New 4 Stroke - Without Conventional Valves
« Reply #29 on: September 26, 2010, 05:29:48 PM »
Very interesting  :) :) :) :)

Offline Stilldrillin

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Re: New 4 Stroke - Without Conventional Valves
« Reply #30 on: September 27, 2010, 03:49:52 AM »
Good 'ere innit!  :thumbup:  :scratch:  :bugeye:  :scratch:

David D
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Offline Bluechip

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Re: New 4 Stroke - Without Conventional Valves
« Reply #31 on: September 28, 2010, 04:13:04 PM »
Gotta keep this going ....   :thumbup:


Old 4-Stroke without conventional valves ... or rather 24 of 'em. ( cylinders, not strokes or valves    :scratch: )

Click thumbnail 5th row down, 3rd from left

EDIT Oops .. appears to be pre-clicked 

http://www.napierheritage.org.uk/spip.php?article100407&id_document=100670#documents_portfolio

BC
« Last Edit: September 28, 2010, 04:15:07 PM by Bluechip »
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Offline dsquire

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Re: New 4 Stroke - Without Conventional Valves
« Reply #32 on: September 28, 2010, 05:38:34 PM »
Click thumbnail 5th row down, 3rd from left

EDIT Oops .. appears to be pre-clicked 

BC

Dave

Don't mean to nit pick but don't you mean 2nd from left?  :lol: :lol: Thanks for pre clicking it for me. :doh:

Cheers  :beer:

Don

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Offline Dean W

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Re: New 4 Stroke - Without Conventional Valves
« Reply #33 on: September 28, 2010, 05:39:09 PM »
Oh sure, but what about this?


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Offline Bluechip

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Re: New 4 Stroke - Without Conventional Valves
« Reply #34 on: September 28, 2010, 06:02:21 PM »
Don

Dunno really. Looks like the third to me, but then higher maths was never my strong point  :scratch: maybe we should compromise on the 2 1/2 th. ??



Wow Dean, that's impressive ...

Look at the size of the supercharger vanes on that ...

I wonder how much grunt that chucks out ... bet it's got pistons like young dustbins ..

Dave BC



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Offline Feliks

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Re: New 4 Stroke - Without Conventional Valves
« Reply #35 on: September 28, 2010, 07:09:16 PM »
Oh sure, but what about this?




I am very sorry, but if they can suggest something: please with all reverence to move into the museum - is after all a wonderful time ...

Rotating Dixieland Yoda.




Next Dixieland :




To those dixielnds can efficiently drive Hydraulic, it may have, no peaks of specialized software, use the links below.

http://www.hippocampus.org/homework-help/Physics-B/Fluid%20Mechanics_Venturi%20Tube%20-%20Simulation.html
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/policy/army/accp/al0966/le2.htm
ller spins quickly ....
And review of the fact that it's not worth double the  turbine insert...
Mistake..!!



A new way of sailing through a balloon which has the wind, and transmits energy to the propeller using hydraulics




And sailing version of the Venturi jets:



Regards Andrew :D :D

Offline AdeV

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Re: New 4 Stroke - Without Conventional Valves
« Reply #36 on: September 28, 2010, 07:18:50 PM »
Oh sure, but what about this?



You'd have thought they'd have found a more efficient way of grinding wheat than turning the whole building around the millstone, wouldn't you?

Ah, those crazy Dutch. Gotta love 'em  :D
Cheers!
Ade.
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Offline dsquire

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Re: New 4 Stroke - Without Conventional Valves
« Reply #37 on: September 29, 2010, 12:12:50 AM »

You'd have thought they'd have found a more efficient way of grinding wheat than turning the whole building around the millstone, wouldn't you?

Ah, those crazy Dutch. Gotta love 'em  :D
Yea, but then they would have had to dig the big millstone out of the earth.  :doh: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Cheers  :beer:

Don
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Offline Feliks

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Re: New 4 Stroke - Without Conventional Valves
« Reply #38 on: October 07, 2010, 06:10:09 PM »
I simply will look as flat block. It can be cast as a single unit. It did not need the division on the block and head. Because the pistons can be put at the bottom......
 It is full 4 stroke engine.








Regards Andrew :coffee: :coffee:

Offline Dean W

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Re: New 4 Stroke - Without Conventional Valves
« Reply #39 on: October 08, 2010, 07:19:10 PM »




Frazenstat Nerfherder compensation valve for converting your Waring blender to a warp speed plasma flux
capacitor sub-space propulsion drive. 
They show up in thrift shops now and then.  Surplus from Area 51.  Arnold Schwarzenegger has them to
power his Hummer.  Swears by 'em and says they are the answer to global cooling.
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Offline AdeV

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Re: New 4 Stroke - Without Conventional Valves
« Reply #40 on: October 09, 2010, 04:45:46 AM »




Frazenstat Nerfherder compensation valve for converting your Waring blender to a warp speed plasma flux
capacitor sub-space propulsion drive. 
They show up in thrift shops now and then.  Surplus from Area 51.  Arnold Schwarzenegger has them to
power his Hummer.  Swears by 'em and says they are the answer to global cooling.


I thought it was a fridge, with separate drinks & ice dispensers.
Cheers!
Ade.
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Location: Wallasey, Merseyside. A long way from anywhere.
Occasionally: Zhengzhou, China. An even longer way from anywhere...

Offline Dean W

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Re: New 4 Stroke - Without Conventional Valves
« Reply #41 on: October 09, 2010, 08:45:30 PM »

I thought it was a fridge, with separate drinks & ice dispensers.


Oh...  Okay, I guess you're right again, Ade!  Easy to get a warp drive thingy confused with a fridge, since
they both have a light inside.  : )
The spark plug on top is for heating TV dinners?
Dean W.

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Offline DMIOM

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Re: New 4 Stroke - Without Conventional Valves
« Reply #42 on: October 10, 2010, 03:02:13 AM »
.....The spark plug on top is for heating TV dinners?

maybe its the HT for the inbuilt microwave's magnetron ?

Offline Stilldrillin

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Re: New 4 Stroke - Without Conventional Valves
« Reply #43 on: October 10, 2010, 03:31:26 AM »
.....The spark plug on top is for heating TV dinners?

maybe its the HT for the inbuilt microwave's magnetron ?

Don't do tv dinners.....  ::)

But, I've just had a magnetronded egg on toast!  :thumbup:

David D
David.

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Offline Dean W

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Re: New 4 Stroke - Without Conventional Valves
« Reply #44 on: October 10, 2010, 04:47:43 PM »

But, I've just had a magnetronded egg on toast! 

David D

Confucius say; egg on toast better than egg on face!

Dean W.

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Rob.Wilson

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Re: New 4 Stroke - Without Conventional Valves
« Reply #45 on: October 10, 2010, 05:14:19 PM »

But, I've just had a magnetronded egg on toast! 

David D

Confucius say; egg on toast better than egg on face!


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: Dean you bust me up  :lol: :lol: :lol:


Rob


Offline Bluechip

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Re: New 4 Stroke - Without Conventional Valves
« Reply #46 on: October 10, 2010, 05:18:50 PM »


Don't do tv dinners.....  ::)

But, I've just had a magnetronded egg on toast!  :thumbup:

David D
[/quote]

I had that yesterday .. well similar ..

Worcester Sauce on Egg on Cheese on Baked Beans on Toast on Plate anyway ... nice ...

Mangles the guts a bit. Still, they get what they're given eh? Just have to get on with it like the rest of us .. :thumbup:

Dave BC
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Offline Brass_Machine

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Re: New 4 Stroke - Without Conventional Valves
« Reply #47 on: October 10, 2010, 05:38:12 PM »
Hmmmm.
Science is fun.

We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.

Offline Brass_Machine

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Re: New 4 Stroke - Without Conventional Valves
« Reply #48 on: October 10, 2010, 07:48:45 PM »
This thread has gone waaaaaay of track and has gotten quite a bit bizarre. Sorry, but I am locking it.

Eric
Science is fun.

We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.