Author Topic: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive  (Read 97377 times)

Offline sbwhart

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Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
« Reply #50 on: May 13, 2010, 01:19:28 AM »
Thanks Dean

I'm going to use dry acid salts for the pickle from her http://www.chronos.ltd.uk/cgi-local/sh000001.pl?REFPAGE=http%3a%2f%2fwww%2echronos%2eltd%2euk%2f&WD=acid&PN=Dry_Acid_Pickling_Salts%2ehtml%23aACD100#aACD100

I bought some about 12 months ago but I've since found out that you can use citric acid which is a lot safer and more environmentally friendly in fact I'm mulling over using the citric.

Stew
A little bit of clearance never got in the road
 :wave:

Location:- Crewe Cheshire

Offline sbwhart

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Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
« Reply #51 on: May 15, 2010, 02:04:00 AM »
Thanks guys

Well yesterday was a case of best laid skeams and all that. I'd more or less got the afternoon free to get on with the boiler, but my daughter turned up with 2 month old grandson, now if theirs anything better than a grandson for keeping a grandad out of his shop please tell me  ;D, so only manages to get a little done.

Cutting out the rad on the throat tube plate using jewelers saw and home made sawing table.



Throat plate having first fitting to boiler tube.



I annealed the boiler tube using a rough hearth pieced together with the thermalite blocks and the biggest  burner I've got for my torch just to try it out, the blocks worked well but the burner scared the crap out of me talk about a roaring flame, not too easy to control, I've got two torches so using the next size burner down with both torches will give me more control when it comes to soldering.

As you can see from the pic the acid bath worked will, I ended up using the acid salts only needed to make up 3 liters to cover boiler and adding about two tablespoons of salts gave me a Ph between 2 and 3 (if I'm reading the indicator paper correct)

Cheers

Stew


« Last Edit: May 15, 2010, 04:25:44 AM by sbwhart »
A little bit of clearance never got in the road
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Location:- Crewe Cheshire

Offline shoey51

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Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
« Reply #52 on: May 15, 2010, 02:42:10 AM »
yes grandkids sure do keep you out of the workshop  :D

thats coming together nicely mate  :thumbup:
looking forward to the next stage

Graham

Offline sbwhart

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Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
« Reply #53 on: May 16, 2010, 06:17:06 AM »
Thanks Graham

Well yesterday was yet another case of "best laid skeams of mice and men all gang away". I could see the whole day in front of me in the shop, but I'd forgotten about the Boss, we'd booked seats for a Don McClane (of American Pie Fame) In Liverpool for the evening, but the Boss thought it would be a good idea to go early and have a wander around the shops visit the Tate modern art Gallery at the Albert Docks etc etc so strike one afternoon in the shop. Enjoyed the visit and concert though, and came across one interesting fact you guys across the pond will be interested in, theirs a very nice bronze statue at Albert Dock commemorating emigration donated to the city by the Mormon Church, it's plaque states that over 9 Million people emigrated from Europe to North America through the port of Liverpool:- just what % of the population are decended from those emigrants now  :scratch: the mind boggles.

Back on topic:-

The wings of the fire box rapper need to be extended to do this I will have to make a joint, this can be a simple lap joint but this will take up some water space or a joggled joint, I'm going to use a joggle joint. First thing make a joggling tool, now this isn't going to be a fancy tool just dog rough and functional.

Mill a bit of flat steel (garage door thanks Ralph) flat and put a groove up it 1/4" + plate thickness + a bit for luck.



Then with the plate well annealed and a 1/4" square bar squeeze the plate into the grooves.



This will bend it out a bit wack it back square with a bit of ally bar and a hammer.



And thats the joggled joint formed.



Cheers

Stew
A little bit of clearance never got in the road
 :wave:

Location:- Crewe Cheshire

Offline Stilldrillin

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Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
« Reply #54 on: May 16, 2010, 06:21:11 AM »
Stew......

"Every day, in every way..... You`re getting better & better!"   :wave:

Nice one, again.....  :thumbup:

David D
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Still modifying bits of metal... Occasionally, making an improvement!

Offline shoey51

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Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
« Reply #55 on: May 16, 2010, 08:18:08 AM »
What Dave said
 :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

Offline sbwhart

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Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
« Reply #56 on: May 16, 2010, 12:02:45 PM »

Thanks Dave Graham

Now if you've got a nervous disposition look away now:- this is going to be cheap, nasty, and as rough as the proverbial Bears arse,

(If any of you guys have felt a Bears back side and lived to tell the tail I would love to know just how rough it is)   :D

But It'll do the job  :proj:

Making the brazing Hearth.

Fist off cut a boiler size hole in the base of a large ally oven tray:- the reason for the hole will become apparent in next weekish.



Then four bolts in each corner fastens it to the top of a work mate, and a bit of scrap ally sheet pop riveted to two sides makes the wind shield.




Now it was a great bit of advice that I got to use Thermalite block cut in half with an old saw for insulation. (You must keep them dry)
They cut like butter.  :thumbup:



And her we have it's all ready for the first soldering job and all for less than a ten squid, and build in an afternoon.



Stew








A little bit of clearance never got in the road
 :wave:

Location:- Crewe Cheshire

Offline shoey51

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Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
« Reply #57 on: May 16, 2010, 05:57:39 PM »
Hey Stew it may b rough and ready mate but it will do the job nicely  :thumbup:
  :nrocks:

Offline Dean W

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Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
« Reply #58 on: May 16, 2010, 10:58:42 PM »
Coming along well, Stew.  I like how you made your hearth. 

Dean
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Offline madjackghengis

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Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
« Reply #59 on: May 18, 2010, 12:09:42 PM »
Coming along well, Stew.  I like how you made your hearth. 

Dean
Amen to that, Dean, that's another good idea to be stowed in the attic for the future, I'm learning lots about working with copper, and will have to build a boiler, in spite of having already considered using an ex-kitchen appliance to run a steam engine project coming up.  Great work at showing the means, too.  Much appreciated, kind of like school :lol: mad jack

Offline sbwhart

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Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
« Reply #60 on: May 18, 2010, 02:49:56 PM »
Thanks guys I picked up the idea for the Hearth from another forum I'm just passing along someone else's ideas.

Got some of the boiler bushes made whilst waiting for the rivets to arrive.



The bush on the left is for the safety valve, the drawing states 3/8"*26 thread, checked with Reeves what thread they sold their safety valves with 3/8*32 so thats what I made it, the middle two are for the regulator they screw into the end plates, the one with all the holes is soldered into the boiler barrel and the steam dome fastens onto it.

Stew

A little bit of clearance never got in the road
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Location:- Crewe Cheshire

Offline Dean W

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Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
« Reply #61 on: May 18, 2010, 06:03:27 PM »
You make some nice, clean looking bits, Stew.  Fittings look top grade.

Dean
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Offline sbwhart

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Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
« Reply #62 on: May 22, 2010, 08:17:04 AM »
Thanks Dean

Well this has been a very frustrating week, I ordered the 1/16 copper rivets on Monday on Friday I got a call from the supplier to say they were out of stock  :-\ , so I've reordered from another supplier, in the mean time I've got on with some house jobs and earned a few brownie points, and made some more bushes, and bronze screws to hold the boiler together whilst its soldered.



I found that the boiler flue tubes varied in length by 1/8 they need to be all the same length or the sort ones will be at risk of coming adrift during soldering.



Skimmed one end square de-burred the bore and skimmed the Dia for 3mm for a lose fit in the tube plate.



Then found the shortest tube and set the hight gauge to that and marked all the other tubes off to that length.



Skimmed the length to the mark and turned OD same as the other end.

With all the tubes trimmed to length and a small step turned time to have a trial assembly to the tube plates.





The smokebox tube plate is the wrong way round, this is because I want the end of  tubes to sit flat on a plate whilst I solder the tubes to the firebox, the smokebox tube plate will be one of the last things to be soldered so I must remember to turn it round.

My plan is to solder the wrapper extensions first then the throat plate and wrapper, but I need those darn rivets if I don't get them soon it will be plan B turn some 1/8 rivets down.

Stew
A little bit of clearance never got in the road
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Location:- Crewe Cheshire

Offline Bernd

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Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
« Reply #63 on: May 22, 2010, 08:48:21 AM »
Looks real clean there Stew. :thumbup:

Shouldn't be any problem silver soldering them in place.


Bernd
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Offline sbwhart

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Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
« Reply #64 on: May 22, 2010, 09:46:45 AM »
Thanks Bernd

Went to the club track to see if I could touch base with the boiler inspector, and find out if he will be around next week, he wasn't there but I was telling one of the members about the my lack of rivets, he said I've got some you can have just follow me home, People can be real nice:-
So looks like I'll be soldering next week.

Stew
A little bit of clearance never got in the road
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Location:- Crewe Cheshire

Offline Bluechip

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Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
« Reply #65 on: May 22, 2010, 09:49:54 AM »
Stew

What size Cu Rivets????

I got some RH 1/16" x 1/4" ... ???

Yours if yer want 'em ..

Due to be dumped shortly

Dave BC
« Last Edit: May 22, 2010, 09:58:44 AM by Bluechip »
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Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
« Reply #66 on: May 22, 2010, 12:29:56 PM »
Hi Stew

Your making a great job of building the boiler ,,,,very clean work  :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow:


Cheers Rob

Offline sbwhart

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Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
« Reply #67 on: May 23, 2010, 07:54:40 AM »
Dave thanks for the offer of the rivets.

Cheers

Rob

Well got the first joint soldered the fire box outer rapper extension:- the part to be joined were given a soak in the pickle for 1/2 hr then throughly cleaned with some wire wool, flux applied and the extensions were loosely riveted in place.



Then onto the hearth a piece of solder was cut the length of the joint and placed on the joint I did an outside and an inside joint at the same heating, and I bunged the thermal blanket up the tube to keep the heat where I wanted it. fed a little solder into the joint and onto the head of the rivets



I let it cool for five minutes then quenched it in water then into the pickle for half an hour, the pickle was then washed off in water, and the joint inspected, apply another dollop of solder to the joint, then with the boiler flipped over the other way and with less solder this time and the whole lot heated up again and a little more solder fed into the joint and on the other side of the rivets.

Back in to the pickle as before another clean and inspection not to happy with a couple of areas so again as before more flux and a bit more solder in the areas on concern.

Here we go outside.



And inside



Well thats me done for the day the rest of the day will be taken up with that great British institution:- the family barbeque, that is traditionally held on the first and often only dry sunny day of the year. The pleasant sound of birds song and smell of flowers will be replaced by the sound of male of the household cussing as he struggles to get the barbeque lit and the stench of charcoal, lighter fuel, and cremated sausages.

Cheers

Stew

A little bit of clearance never got in the road
 :wave:

Location:- Crewe Cheshire

Offline Stilldrillin

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Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
« Reply #68 on: May 23, 2010, 08:44:15 AM »

Well thats me done for the day the rest of the day will be taken up with that great British institution:- the family barbeque, that is traditionally held on the first and often only dry sunny day of the year. The pleasant sound of birds song and smell of flowers will be replaced by the sound of male of the household cussing as he struggles to get the barbeque lit and the stench of charcoal, lighter fuel, and cremated sausages.

Cheers

Stew

Don`t believe you Stew!  :)

I think you will apply the same logic and workmanship to the "family entertainment", as to the loco build......   :coffee: :med:

Enjoy your barbie!  :thumbup:

David D

David.

Still drilling holes... Sometimes, in the right place!

Still modifying bits of metal... Occasionally, making an improvement!

Offline madjackghengis

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Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
« Reply #69 on: May 23, 2010, 09:38:48 AM »
Thing have been a little slow, bin on Gardening Duties and looking after our grand son.

Any way made some progress with a backward step thrown in, more about this later.

Made the former for the backhead plate you this former for the throat plate as well. First square it up so that you've got four good edges on each face, then blue it up and mark it out on the mill.



Then centre pop the line to give you something to work too.



Then mill out the shape I used the rotory table this time, it just fitted the clamping is not too elligant, but hay:- its effective.



Then it was just a matter of tidying up the plates on the former her they are all done with the formers.



Now to drill the tube plates now I know that "drilling soft copper can be tricky",  :bang: I've seen lots of pics where guys have mounted tubes plates onto lathe face plates so that the holes can be bored because "drilling soft copper can be tricky" :bang: but for some reason I decided to do the drilling on my pillar drill, its not a bad pillar drill but its not as good as my mill for drilling, I clamped the smoke box tube plate onto a plank of wood and drilled the first 3/8" hole all was well, now I know that "drilling soft copper can me tricky", :bang: second ran out nearly into the first hole that I drilled, I stopped and tried rectifying it by drilling from the other side but this only made things worse:- strike one tube plate

:bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang:

OK it's a scrapper:- so decided to drill the rest of the holes any way to perfect the best method.

Over too the mill:- this is the set up, the plate was position over a slot for the drill to run into and clamping onto a chunk of wood in the middle, so the flange wouldn't be damaged.



That worked like a dream why didn't I do that to begin with  :bang:

OK have a go with the 3/4" supper heater holes now I know that "drilling soft copper can me tricky",   :bang: so similar set up, but this time I sat the plate on some parallels flat side on, as the 3/4" was to wide to fit between a slot,:-a 3/8" pilot drill then straight in with the 3/4" now I know that "drilling soft copper can me tricky",  :bang: that one wandered off centre as well I should have used another pilot drill.

OK second 3/4" hole this time 3/8" followed by 1/2" followed by 3/4" perfect

This is the scrap plate, the 3/4" hole on the left is the one that run out. you can work out for your selves which 3/8" hole went wrong.




Guess what I'll be buying at the Harrogate show, still I've got the formers know.

Stew

Who knows that "drilling soft copper can me tricky"  :bang:Hi Stew, since I haven't built a boiler yet, and you're doing such a nice job, I've been going back over what you posted, from the beginning, to get a better set in my mind, of what you've done, and run up against.  As I went through this part where your drill wandered far and away, I was reminded, copper can easily be welded up, using tig, and good quality solid strand electrical wire, so that hole that wandered off could have been filled in, and re-drilled, just as a note, no criticism, and it brought to mind, I once welded up a diesel fuel tank for a boat that was all copper, and did it with oxy-accetalene, which works well, but requires a good eye for color, much like aluminum does, for the same reason:  drop out.
    Nothing relavent to to the current state of the thread, just thought I'd add a couple of bits which came to me late.  Still enjoying the build log, beautiful work :headbang: mad jack






Offline sbwhart

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Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
« Reply #70 on: May 24, 2010, 12:55:54 PM »
The Barbie went down well Dave, I lied about the charcoal I've got one of those gas jobbies I rescued it from the next door neighbour who was scrapping it off as it was looking a bit tatty, gave it a good clean and a fresh coat of heat resistant paint, some new rocks, and the jobs a good un .   :nrocks:

Thanks for the info Jack thats well worth remembering.  :thumbup:

Well had a master class from John this afternoon on silver soldering, we soldered the throat plate up, and I learnt a lot in the process, it really is a two man job using propane on a lump of copper like this boiler.

First of all I gave the parts a good clean first in the pickle then with a wire brush, I loosely riveted the throat plate in place with four rivets one mid way on each side of the fire box and one each side of the boiler tube where the saw cut ended, closed any big gaps by tapping and pinching with pliers, and applied flux. One thing I learnt from Johns was you don't need a lot of flux I was lathering it on.

This was the first set up. Sorry didn't take a lot of pics it a process where once you start you can't keep breaking off to take a pic, so you'll have to put up with my description.



We placed a length of 3 mm silver solder down each side of the plate and along the back, then with me operating one torch for back ground heating and John adding the filler rod and controlling the heat with a smaller torch and instruction to me as to where to direct the background heat and when to take it off we set too, whith the top once done we flipped the boiler on its side and soldered up around the boiler tube, flipped it on the other side and ditto , allowed it to cool and have 1/2hr in the pickle a carefull inspection showed a couple of areas that needed a bit more work, so same procedure with but concentrating the heat on areas as required.

This is what the job looks like.

Top



Inside



The fillet around the curve is on the other side and as its down the bottom of the tube it doesn't take a good pic, so you'll have to believe me:- its real nice.


I'll run this past the inspector.

Stew





« Last Edit: May 24, 2010, 02:06:26 PM by sbwhart »
A little bit of clearance never got in the road
 :wave:

Location:- Crewe Cheshire

Offline shoey51

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Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
« Reply #71 on: May 24, 2010, 02:30:22 PM »
looking good Stew hope your barbi went well :D

Offline Stilldrillin

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Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
« Reply #72 on: May 24, 2010, 03:56:43 PM »
Stew...... The barbie? ...... How well I know you!


Boiler work`s looking really good!  :clap:

Good luck with the Inspector.....  :thumbup:

David D
« Last Edit: May 24, 2010, 03:59:22 PM by Stilldrillin »
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Offline Dean W

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Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
« Reply #73 on: May 25, 2010, 12:09:00 AM »
Coming along just great, Stew.  The joints look good.
Do you have to show the inspector every time you make a new joint?

Dean
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Offline sbwhart

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Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
« Reply #74 on: May 25, 2010, 01:32:25 AM »
Thanks Guys

Dean:- no I don't have to show the inspector every joint, but as this is my first boiler I thought it a good idea to show him each joint especially as I will be boxing some of the joints up where they can't be seen/inspected and it becomes very difficult to rectify any faults with them. It also gives the inspector a chance to give advice, and point me in right direction to avoid mistakes that can't be easelly corrected.

Stew
A little bit of clearance never got in the road
 :wave:

Location:- Crewe Cheshire