Author Topic: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive  (Read 95978 times)

Offline madjackghengis

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Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
« Reply #75 on: May 25, 2010, 11:39:46 AM »
I've got to say Stew, that boiler is coming along right nicely, and the joints are looking really nice.  I'm looking forward to seeing the tubes and tube plates in place to have a bit better perspective, but the tubes, plates and all the bits and pieces don't look so intimidating as they go together now.  You wouldn't already have an engine waiting for that boiler by chance, would you? :lol: :lol:  Can't wait to see some steam built up and driving something.   :jaw: :bow: :thumbup: mad jack

Offline sbwhart

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Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
« Reply #76 on: May 25, 2010, 01:37:46 PM »
You wouldn't already have an engine waiting for that boiler by chance, would you? :lol: :lol:  Can't wait to see some steam built up and driving something.   :jaw: :bow: :thumbup: mad jack

Cheers Jack

The boiler is for my 2-4-0 loco that I'm building, you gave me the perfect excuse to take a pic of it between the frames.



The frames somewhat stripped down, I've removed the front wheel and the connecting rod so that I could trial fit the water and oil pumps.

You can read the build log her http://madmodder.net/index.php?topic=547.0

Thanks

Stew

A little bit of clearance never got in the road
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Location:- Crewe Cheshire

Offline Stilldrillin

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Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
« Reply #77 on: May 25, 2010, 03:55:44 PM »
Well...... I`ve said it before, so, I might as well say it again......  :wave:

That`s looking good Stew!  :clap:  :thumbup:

David D
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Still modifying bits of metal... Occasionally, making an improvement!

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Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
« Reply #78 on: May 25, 2010, 04:18:46 PM »
Stew  :jaw: :jaw: :jaw: :jaw: really looking great  :clap: :clap: :clap:,,,,,,,,,,,,, nice brazing hearth  :med:


Regards Rob

Offline Artie

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Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
« Reply #79 on: May 25, 2010, 07:41:31 PM »
I dont know what your silver soldering skils are like but if you havent dont much the ruined plate could be a bonus. I would get some scrap tube and practise on it before you attack the real thing... it can be a bit tricky at times.

Stew, I made this comment in here some pages back....... Ive just had occasion to read your loco thread.... therefore PLEASE IGNORE THIS COMMENT..... you dont need any practise :bow: :bow: :bow:

Wow... Ive just discovered the thread due to the link just posted here..... man am I impressed.... (understatement there wow)... it was amazing to follow the linkage build, the heartache and the success.... just like a damn thriller novel, I couldnt stop til I had it read.. fantatstic...Ill certainly follow both . Well done mate.  :beer:

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Offline Divided he ad

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Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
« Reply #80 on: May 25, 2010, 07:48:20 PM »
Stew....  It'll do.





Ralph.









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Offline NickG

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Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
« Reply #81 on: May 26, 2010, 06:12:15 AM »
Stew,

I've just flicked through all your pics but need to read this in detail. Not been on here or in workshop for a while, other things keep getting in way. Rules on boilers are getting tighter and tighter (probably rightly so) and we have a new boiler inspector at our club now so I fear I may have to make a new boiler for my loco, this article will come in extremely useful if I do have to.

Great work by the way, those joints and flanged plates are perfect.

Nick
Location: County Durham (North East England)

Offline sbwhart

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Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
« Reply #82 on: May 26, 2010, 12:26:04 PM »
Hi Nick

Was wondering where you were, was going to give you another week and then email you at work, hope everything is ok:- domestic duties get in the way even when your retired.

Had one or two chats with our boiler inspector, what surprises me is how fluid things are as to design, he's always telling me alternative ways of doing things, I,e replace the gurder stay with rivet stays, having a two piece boiler tube etc etc, I thought I would have to demonstrate that the correct gauge of material had been used etc, etc, a question he's not asked yet, I may be wrong but the regulations seem to be more about testing than anything else.

Cheers

Stew
A little bit of clearance never got in the road
 :wave:

Location:- Crewe Cheshire

Offline sbwhart

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Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
« Reply #83 on: May 26, 2010, 02:10:06 PM »
Nick:- forgot to say, if you do need to build a boiler you can have my formers.

Got a little more done today forming the firebox rapper:-

The rapper was cut to the correct size so first job was to anneal and pickle it then mark the middle and using the end plate former get it bent roughly to shape with the help of the vice, just by hand.



It was annealed and pickled again

Then using the tube plates as formers and bits of woods as bats it was nocked to shape.



Tomorrow's job is to solder together the flue tubes the fire box tube plate and the rapper.


Cheers

Stew
A little bit of clearance never got in the road
 :wave:

Location:- Crewe Cheshire

Offline NickG

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Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
« Reply #84 on: May 27, 2010, 05:16:20 AM »
All ok thanks Stew, to be honest I just don't seem to have the energy or time! It's me being lazy really, taking the easy way out for a bit!  :lol:

I think you're right about regulations there there are a lot of people with a lot of experience you can call up on and they'll offer different ways of doing things. I think the fact that he's seen your build he'll know the manner in which you approach things and that you wouldn't over look anything. He should be checking correct gauge of material you've used etc but he won't have to with yours.

The problem with mine is, it's ancient - well over 20 years old, and nobody knows what it's like inside. From the look of it, it's been done exactly to drawings but I know our new inspector would really rather see it being built up - I'll take it and see what he things anyway.

Thanks for the offer of the formers  :thumbup: I think I'd be more happy myself if it had a new boiler, but I'll see what he thinks of existing one first.

You're doing a great job on this, the thing I struggle with with sheet metal work, I always seem to relax - i don't treat it as with other machining work working to close tolerances, but to get a good job, you have to. When you're cutting a piece of plate to size, do you treat it as any other part you make?

Keep up the good work.

Nick





Location: County Durham (North East England)

Offline madjackghengis

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Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
« Reply #85 on: May 27, 2010, 10:24:57 AM »
Hi Stew, thanks for the picture of the engine it will be feeding, it looks great and of course now I'm looking forward to seeing it with the boiler steaming it, and wheels turning.  That boiler looks great where it's at too, almost like it belongs :jaw:  I noted the discussion of "model engineers" and their abundance, have you ever noticed most of us can't spell?  I noticed among electronic technicians in the Corps, about one in five could learn to troubleshoot, and become a real highly qualified technician, with the rest never getting past the stage of just being able to align and adjust a unit that was not too far off right.  Of those who turned out real technicians with troubleshooting skills, most had real problems spelling, and didn't care, while most of those who never could figure out how to "think out of the box" or from the outside in, had no spelling problems at all.  I think dyslexia is a sign of a mechanical engineer's way of thinking, and just means our brains are wired differently.  It certainly seems to play out here on the forum.  I'm really looking forward to the tubes and stays going into the boiler, and seeing anything regarding the actual ispection that takes place.  I have no idea how such is done or even whether it's done the same on this side or not.  Thanks again, mad jack

Offline sbwhart

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Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
« Reply #86 on: May 27, 2010, 11:25:25 AM »

I noted the discussion of "model engineers" and their abundance, have you ever noticed most of us can't spell?  I noticed among electronic technicians in the Corps, about one in five could learn to troubleshoot, and become a real highly qualified technician, with the rest never getting past the stage of just being able to align and adjust a unit that was not too far off right.  Of those who turned out real technicians with troubleshooting skills, most had real problems spelling, and didn't care, while most of those who never could figure out how to "think out of the box" or from the outside in, had no spelling problems at all.  I think dyslexia is a sign of a mechanical engineer's way of thinking, and just means our brains are wired differently.  It certainly seems to play out here on the forum.  I'm really looking forward to the tubes and stays going into the boiler, and seeing anything regarding the actual ispection that takes place.  I have no idea how such is done or even whether it's done the same on this side or not.  Thanks again, mad jack

How very true well observed, I gave up many years ago trying to spell and just got on with life, it use to piss me off at work though, their was always some smarty pants who could spell, but could do little else, and they loved to pull people up about their spelling, I learnt to bide my time and then really rub their nose in it when they came up against something they couldn't do, and remind them it hurts to be constantly reminded of your weaknesses. When the chips were down and a job needed to be pulled out of the mire it was the natural engineers who were always called on, it was only late in live that I learnt to exploit this and bang the table for recognition, my company loved smooth talking, suited engineers that could only look nice, the real guys who who were rough at the edges but did the work, were kept hided away where they couldn't contaminate the companies image.

Any way thats enough of putting the world to rights:- back to the job in hand.

Another master class from John on silver soldering.

This is the set up for soldering the flue tubes to the firebox tube plate, stepping the tubes worked great in prevent the tube plate slipping down, I cut a bricks to length to give a bit of support.



Some rings of solder were made by simply wrapping the rod around one of the tubes and snipped them off, the tube ends and tube plate were fluxed, and the solder rings placed over each of the tubes.



One things John has taught me is that you don't directly heat up the solder you start by adding background heat to the job slowly bringing the flame up to where the joint is to be formed this way you gat a uniform heat in the joint. We worked with two burners one each side of the job as the solder started to melt we moved the torch slowly around so that each ring of solder was melted in turn.

With the tubes fixed and after a spell in the pickle the rapper was soldered to the tube, this time the job was flipped over so that the tubes were on top, again lengths of solder were placed along the joint, and additional solder fed into the joint as it melted.

Here's the job before pickle.



And after







 
Cheers

Stew
A little bit of clearance never got in the road
 :wave:

Location:- Crewe Cheshire

Rob.Wilson

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Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
« Reply #87 on: May 27, 2010, 11:40:22 AM »
Looking great Stew  :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

  :offtopic: but i have just switched to Google chrome ,,,,, cos its got a built in  spell checker ,,,,my lack of literacy really bugs me  when i am trying to type up a post   :bang:


Anyway carry on Stew ,,,,,,,,,, its going to be a fine engine, looking forward to seeing it steamed up and  on the rails  :thumbup:


Cheers Rob

Offline Stilldrillin

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Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
« Reply #88 on: May 27, 2010, 12:35:05 PM »
That`s sweet work you`ve done there Stew!  :clap:      Again......  :D




Incidentally...... I could always spell very well...... I was always the back up, to my oppo.....

He worked out the way to go. I went/ followed on......

As a pair, we were devastating when any new product came along, and production needed sorting.  :thumbup:

He can`t spell to save his life......  ::)




Eeee..... I do miss him!  :lol: :lol:

David D

David.

Still drilling holes... Sometimes, in the right place!

Still modifying bits of metal... Occasionally, making an improvement!

Offline Bernd

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Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
« Reply #89 on: May 27, 2010, 01:38:12 PM »
Hey Stew, nice soldering job. Looks real good.  :thumbup:

Bernd
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Offline shoey51

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Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
« Reply #90 on: May 27, 2010, 04:07:00 PM »
Stew that was a lovely neat bit of brazing there mate. I learnt to silver braze in my plumbing aprenticeship and I dont think I could do much better mate :thumbup:
I cant spell either thats why i use Firefox browser with its in built spell checker.
keep up the great work mate

cheers Graham

Offline Dean W

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Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
« Reply #91 on: May 28, 2010, 03:01:29 AM »
That's a lot of nice soldering, Stew.  It's coming along to be a beauty.
When you say "stepping the tubes", do you mean putting a bulge in the end so they don't fall through the plate
as you're soldering them?

Thanks,

Dean
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Offline Divided he ad

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Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
« Reply #92 on: May 28, 2010, 03:33:30 AM »
Looking good Stew  :thumbup:


I like the picture of the rings of solder ready for the heat, it is by far the neatest and easiest way I've seen of doing this sort of soldering.

I had a go at silver soldering a couple of weeks ago. Just test stuff. Using this method and seeing about quantity/heat required to fill a whole joint. It's not as easy as many make it look!


(Dean, page 5 shows a slight skim 3mm long to create a shoulder on the tubes so they do not pass through the plate  :thumbup: )





Glad you've got all the pic's in here Stew, feels like I'm part of the build   :D






Ralph.
I know what I know and need to know more!!!

Offline sbwhart

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Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
« Reply #93 on: May 28, 2010, 03:57:51 AM »
Thanks Dean/Ralph



(Dean, page 5 shows a slight skim 3mm long to create a shoulder on the tubes so they do not pass through the plate  :thumbup: )


Glad you've got all the pic's in here Stew, feels like I'm part of the build   :D


Ralph.

Glad your paying attention Ralph in preparation for the end of thread exam  :D

but in this case you only get 5 out of 10 on page three (no breasts) I also drilled the tube plate slightly smaller than the tubes.

See you at Johns on Sunday.

Cheers

Stew



A little bit of clearance never got in the road
 :wave:

Location:- Crewe Cheshire

Offline NickG

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Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
« Reply #94 on: May 28, 2010, 04:54:35 AM »
Stew,

You're making this look far too easy! I know that it's not because we had to do repairs on my boiler, my dad used to be a technology teacher in a secondary school so we had access to a proper brazing hearth, large propane burner, oxy actaline, buried in the fire bricks and still the amount of heat required amazed me.


It may be because we have the finished boiler and trying to re-solder joints that made it slightly more difficult but hats off to you.

Soldering the stays on the inside of the firebox is really tricky.

Nick
Location: County Durham (North East England)

Offline Divided he ad

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Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
« Reply #95 on: May 28, 2010, 11:56:11 AM »

Quote
but in this case you only get 5 out of 10 on page three (no breasts) I also drilled the tube plate slightly smaller than the tubes.


Stew,  I was thinking that it was obvious that the holes were small enough.... Any extra marks for thinking buy not stating the obvious?   :lol:


Yep. I'll be at Johns Sunday, be there around 2    :)  always good to catch up  :thumbup:







Ralph.
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Offline Dean W

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Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
« Reply #96 on: May 28, 2010, 07:35:12 PM »
Thanks Ralph and Stew.
I was watching and reading every page, honest!  I just don't remember everything, and never was that good
at tests.  At least I can reed and rite, (and spel)!  Should get good marks for that, right?  :scratch:

I really like this build, having never made this type of boiler.  Have only made two of them at all, and they
were the type that have siphon tubes on the bottom, outside of the main boiler tube.  Like for a stationary boiler.
So, I'm learning stuff here, and thanks for that!

Dean
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Offline sbwhart

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Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
« Reply #97 on: May 29, 2010, 01:20:01 AM »

I really like this build, having never made this type of boiler.  Have only made two of them at all, and they
were the type that have siphon tubes on the bottom, outside of the main boiler tube.  Like for a stationary boiler.
So, I'm learning stuff here, and thanks for that!

Dean


Thanks Dean

This is certainly a huge learning experience for me as well, a bit of a trip into the unknown.

Stew
A little bit of clearance never got in the road
 :wave:

Location:- Crewe Cheshire

Offline sbwhart

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Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
« Reply #98 on: May 30, 2010, 08:08:04 AM »
Well the soldering is on the back burner (pun)  :D until I gat the work done so far, checked out by the boiler inspector. So did a bit of shop maintainance.
Nocked this tooling rack up,



This frees up some space which in my small shop is at a premium.

Then did one or two machining jobs for the boiler first up the "Fire Hole" no not the sort you get after a night down the pub and a curry, the sort they shuvel the coal through.

Its made from a bit of thick wall copper tube:- a short step turned on each end so that you've got a 1/4" collar, a quick anneal and a soak in the pickle.



Then a squeeze in the vice to make it oval and here it is on the backhead.



Next up the bush for the water gauge, for some reason there is no dimensioned drawing for it, just a note saying 1/4* 32 thread. So this is my interpretation of what's required.

Using a chunk of Phos Bronze mark it out and rough it out.



This is one of those awkward jobs where if you don't machine it out in the correct order you'll end up not being able to grip it to finish the job.

Then as its got to fit on the 3 1/2 " dia boiler tube, set up the boring head to cut that dia. The body of the head is 50 mm so (88.9 - 50) / 2 = 19.5 thats what the tool has to stand out above the body to cut a 3 1/2 " dia.





With that set, pop the job in the vice, centre drill for the 1/4*32 zero up the DRO swap to the boring head and cut the rad.








Then back to the zero position and drill for the thread.

Flip it round and drill the joining hole.



A clean up with a file and this is it on the boiler tube.



Stew



A little bit of clearance never got in the road
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Location:- Crewe Cheshire

Offline Bluechip

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Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
« Reply #99 on: May 30, 2010, 09:19:30 AM »
Stew

I made a rack from chipboard to hold 2MT Drill Chucks, Rotating Centres, etc.

It was sealed and painted.

And rusted the 2MT shanks in a most evil fashion.    :(

Dave BC

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