Author Topic: Speeds and Feeds ?.  (Read 11615 times)

Offline bright spark

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Speeds and Feeds ?.
« on: May 11, 2010, 05:06:43 PM »
A recent addition to the shop, was one of those small mills.



Firstly I appologise for putting milling cutters in a drill chuck. I know its bad, but I haven't sourced a proper chuck yet. Trouble is after my Wombling exploits, I have plenty Clarkson screwed chank cutters, but have yet to find a Clarkson Autolock for MT3. One disadvantage of the mini-mill's popularity is that accessories with an MT3 taper are very popular and are a bit hard to find.

As you can see from the chips , I have tried milling, with not a lot of success I must say. I started with some T nuts that came from bigger machines. I managed to trim them down to fit, but not a very clean cut. I had more luck with the flycutter.

I then put a block of what I think is straight aluminium in the vice, put a slot drill in, went down about 1/4" and then wound the Y handle out to mill a slot. I didn't lock the X axis as I was going to move in this direction later. The cutter looked sharp, and drilled the hole easily enough, but when I started to move out, the chips were more like grains, than chips of Aluminium. I increased feed, the motor complained and stalled. I changed to low gear, started again, the chips looks more like you would expect,  and moved the cutter about 25mm, then changed to the X axis and brought the cutter out the side. I skimmed the surface after with the flycutter to clean it up.



As you can see the cut is not straight, and its wobbling from side to side.

The cutter is not happy either.



I am amazed, an HSS cutter being worn away by what I think is aluminium. I had a 45deg cutter and took some small cuts from the side, which worked OK, the cutter is still sharp, and the cut is clean.

Am I cutting too slow ?. I had the mill on slow ratio, dial about at 8 oclock.

I guess I need to learn about Speeds and Feeds ( before I ruin all my cutters). Any recomendations for good books ?.

Ken

Offline colin563

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Re: Speeds and Feeds ?.
« Reply #1 on: May 11, 2010, 05:15:49 PM »
im learning myself but these my help you out

http://cign.org/swgtable.html#speeds


colin

Offline bright spark

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Re: Speeds and Feeds ?.
« Reply #2 on: May 11, 2010, 05:26:53 PM »
Thanks for that. Crikey, for milling aluminium with a 1/4" cutter it says RPM of 3500. Thats probably 5 times faster that I had it. Guess I need an RPM meter pretty quick !.

Ken


Offline No1_sonuk

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Re: Speeds and Feeds ?.
« Reply #4 on: May 11, 2010, 05:40:22 PM »
Are you sure it's not titanium?  ::)

I've been using an ER32 collet chuck in my Warco Mini-mill (which is what that photo looks like).

Offline bright spark

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Re: Speeds and Feeds ?.
« Reply #5 on: May 11, 2010, 05:45:05 PM »
Titanium, may be, it was in the bottom of an old toolbox I got. The flycutter trimmed it OK, and that had what I think is an HSS bit in it.

Thanks for the tip re the Tacho, I have just bought one. This milling is turning out to be an expensive business !. There's a collet chuck, Collets, Milling Vice, tilting vice, new cutters, tacho, clamping kit, step blocks, etc..................

Ken

Offline No1_sonuk

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Re: Speeds and Feeds ?.
« Reply #6 on: May 11, 2010, 06:27:42 PM »
this is all you need

 http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Digital-Laser-Non-Contact-Photo-Tachometer-RPM-Test-LED-/250622053721?cmd=ViewItem&pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item3a5a3d0d59

colin
I couldn't buy it. :(
"You either don't have a PayPal account or your PayPal account is not linked to your eBay account."
I don't get it.  I have a paypal account, and it's linked to my ebay account...

I'm gonna try this:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=130359923593&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT
A tad more expensive, but it's dispatched from the UK.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2010, 06:36:28 PM by No1_sonuk »

Offline bright spark

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Re: Speeds and Feeds ?.
« Reply #7 on: May 11, 2010, 06:39:08 PM »
I actually got this one, Ebay No 320433266066. They all look approx the same and probably have the same guts, (Like the Seig X2).
Paypal occasionally screws up, you can phone them up and ask why its not happening.

Ken

Offline Dean W

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Re: Speeds and Feeds ?.
« Reply #8 on: May 13, 2010, 01:54:09 AM »
You're pretty sure that's aluminum, Ken?  Does a magnet stick to it?
Not trying to be insulting by asking that.  I've just never seen al do that to an end mill.  Hard to imagine it.

Regarding the looks of the cut, it appears that your gibs need attention.  It looks like they may be
pretty loose. 

I hope you get it figured out.  You sure don't want to be going through tool bits at that rate!

Dean
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Offline No1_sonuk

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Re: Speeds and Feeds ?.
« Reply #9 on: May 13, 2010, 07:39:52 AM »
The cut might be too deep for that cutter.  I know mine complains if I try to munch too much at once.

Offline bright spark

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Re: Speeds and Feeds ?.
« Reply #10 on: May 13, 2010, 04:26:53 PM »
Its definately not steel, magnets don't grip, plus its too light. Could it just have been that I was far too slow in both RPM and feed, and the poor tool was rubbing rather than cutting ?. Or possibly, someone could have broken off a drill bit in the metal and I didn't notice ?. The metal is not that hard, there are hammer marks on the bottom, someone has drilled 3off 6mm holes through the base, plus I took several cuts with a 45Deg on the side without any problem. Admittedly those cuts were about 20thou, and the cut on the top is about 120thou deep.

I'll try again over the weekend, with the X axis gib locked and a faster spindle speed

Ken

Offline Jonny

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Re: Speeds and Feeds ?.
« Reply #11 on: May 26, 2010, 05:44:01 PM »
Most of the problem is that you didnt lock the Y axis.
Other probs, cutter too long for depth of cut, hence veer off with flex.
More than likely cutter already no good, aluminium really wears respectable hss cutters more than you can imaginge.
Heat generated? Something like that you need coolant.
Chip removal whilst milling?
May even be not getting a feel for the cut rather than selecting a speed by the book, if it aint cutting dont force it hence no need for rev meter.
Could well be the miller is flexing, this can be in numerous places inc the castings, X, Y and Z axis plus quill play etc

MT3 tooling is in abundance just avoid the chinky ER and Clarkson types.

Offline w0rksh0p

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Re: Speeds and Feeds ?.
« Reply #12 on: August 13, 2010, 11:52:31 AM »
I have plenty Clarkson screwed chank cutters, but have yet to find a Clarkson Autolock for MT3. One disadvantage of the mini-mill's popularity is that accessories with an MT3 taper are very popular and are a bit hard to find.

I have a Vertex autolock chuck from Chronos (http://www.chronos.ltd.uk/cgi-local/ss000001.pl?page=search&SS=PC38EB&search.x=0&search.y=0&search=ACTION&PR=-1&TB=A.  Use the drop-down list to select the shank type.

IMHO it is well made and reasonably priced. 

Edward

Offline HS93

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Re: Speeds and Feeds ?.
« Reply #13 on: August 13, 2010, 09:02:33 PM »
I am usless at metalwork, Oh and cannot spell either . failure

Offline AdeV

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Re: Speeds and Feeds ?.
« Reply #14 on: August 14, 2010, 03:38:39 AM »
1/4" is a fair depth of cut, especially on a small mill, doubly-especially if you've got the cutter in a drill chuck, and triply-especially if you're using a "finishing" (smooth fluted) cutter...

Now, I will cheerfully admit to under-loading my machine - I typically take a 0.200" cut with a roughing cutter when carving up aluminium, but I'm working on a Bridgeport which is decently rigid at those sorts of pressures. Even so, I have to use plenty of WD40 to clear the heat... I vary my RPM based on a table I took from Machinery's Handbook - basically, take their feeds'n'speeds, and halve them. It works well, my machine rarely complains to me that I'm being too hard with it...

You never said what size endmill/slot drill you were using, so I shall assume 1/2": Therefore, the RPM in ali is basically whatever your machine is capable of; keep your DOC (depth of cut) low (try 0.100", and keep reducing it until the machine cuts with only a "gentle" thrumm noise, no clattering, rattling or serious vibration allowed). You should be able to improve your DOC with a proper collet-based toolholder, and I'm sure there are modifications you can make to the machine to improve its rigidity.

All this is IMHO BTW, I've had my mill less than a year, there are far more experience machinists than I who may wish to chime in & contradict me...
Cheers!
Ade.
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Occasionally: Zhengzhou, China. An even longer way from anywhere...

Offline Lew_Merrick_PE

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Re: Speeds and Feeds ?.
« Reply #15 on: August 14, 2010, 11:59:48 AM »
More than likely cutter already no good, aluminium really wears respectable hss cutters more than you can imaginge.

Absolutely true.  What type of sandpaper do you use?  Aluminum oxide is the most popular because it abrades well and is harder to clog.  The oxide surface on aluminum builds up faster than you would believe.

I used to do a lot of tool design for a company that made composite parts for aircraft (they changed hands and moved to China many years ago).  The parts would have to be cut with a diamond router bit held perpendicular (normal) to the contour of the part.  They would buy really good router heads, mount them in an aluminum "sled" that was then driven down a sheet-steel "track."  They were constantly rebuilding the "tracks" because the "sleds" would wear them away!  After several years of this, I finally convinced them to bond a UHMW Polyethylene spacer to the aluminum "sled".  The "tracks" never did wear out!

Offline j45on

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Re: Speeds and Feeds ?.
« Reply #16 on: August 14, 2010, 05:05:59 PM »
this is all you need

 http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Digital-Laser-Non-Contact-Photo-Tachometer-RPM-Test-LED-/250622053721?cmd=ViewItem&pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item3a5a3d0d59

colin
I couldn't buy it. :(
"You either don't have a PayPal account or your PayPal account is not linked to your eBay account."
I don't get it.  I have a paypal account, and it's linked to my ebay account...

I'm gonna try this:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=130359923593&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT
A tad more expensive, but it's dispatched from the UK.

Did you manage to get one ?
If you cant get one from ebay try this http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.41842
postage is free but can take a while as they come from hong kong
and if you keep the total under 18 quid there is no import duty to pay
current exchange rate makes this roughly £9.42

Jason
Jason