Author Topic: 1949 Delta/Milwaukee 14" Band Saw  (Read 81597 times)

Offline Rog02

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Re: 1949 Delta/Milwaukee 14" Band Saw
« Reply #25 on: November 28, 2008, 03:06:13 PM »
I've been a bit pre-occupied the past couple of weeks trying to run down some paying work so "As The Nut Turns" has been "back burnered" for a bit.  I finally got a bit of time (actually just got fed up with the day to day BS and decided to do something for fun) so I decided to make a couple of parts that were missing from the band saw. 

A few weeks ago I posted a request on another forum that deals exclusively with Old Wood Working Machines for the dimensions of the Taper Pin and Table Leveling Adjustment Sleeve, that Delta/Milwaukee supplied with the saw.  These parts are frequently missing and are no longer available from the few places selling parts.  Some of the fellows there were gracious enough to send me the dimensions and photos of the parts.  From the information I did a CAD drawing and posted it in the "Knowledge Base" for future reference, since these old band saws are popular restoration projects.

The "Taper Pin" is needed to hold the table slot in alignment.  It seems that Delta did all the machine work on the table (miter slot, mounting bosses, Etc.) before cutting the blade slot.  When the blade slot was cut into the table any residual stress in the casting would cause a twist in the table that results in the sides of the blade slot being uneven and therefore causing material to hang up as it slides through the saw.  Delta/Milwaukee's solution was to drill and ream a taper hole prior to making the cut and installing a pin to draw everything back to level once the slot is cut.

My original plan was to cut a 3/8" bolt down to size so I could have a nice hex head. The original pins had a 7/16" hex milled on the end for the wrench. The 9/16" hex looked to be a tad large and might have presented a snag hazard so I opted instead to use a piece of 1/2" drill rod.



To make the pin easily removable I cross drilled the end to allow a pin punch to be used as a Johnson bar.


The taper pin installed and table properly aligned.


The "Table Leveling Sleeve" is used to space the adjuster screw between the frame and the bottom of the table.  Besides giving a positive way of squaring the table it relieves some stress from the adjustment trunnions and adds support to the left side of the table.  The idea of the sleeve is to allow it to be removed quickly and the table can tilt 10 degrees to the left, should one need to make relief cuts in moulding joints.  Once the cut is made the sleeve is replaced and the table sets against the sleeve end, again bringing the table square to the blade without the need for any additional tools.


I started working on a "Drive Wheel Brush" the same day I took these photos (Thanksgiving Day), but the effects of "Turkey Poisoning" took over sending me back to the couch to sleep it off.   :med:
Roger
I'm OLD, I'm TIRED, and I'M GRUMPY!

bogstandard

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Re: 1949 Delta/Milwaukee 14" Band Saw
« Reply #26 on: November 28, 2008, 03:56:25 PM »
Roger,

That refurb is a truly wonderful job.

I love old machinery, especially all the curves they had, unlike the modern day stuff, which is very utilitarian

They were made in the days when an engineers 'feel' for materials was used, and were usually grossly over engineered, and designed to last a lifetime, in your case, now two lifetimes. Unlike modern day equipment which seems to have a limited life.

Very well done.

John

Offline Rog02

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Re: 1949 Delta/Milwaukee 14" Band Saw
« Reply #27 on: December 13, 2008, 09:18:21 PM »
OK!  In the last episode of "As The Nut Turns" I showed a couple of parts that I had made to replace the missing pieces on my band saw.  I also posted them to the OWWM site, where other owners of this model saw began to request that I make them to replace the missing ones on their saws as well. 

I also decided I needed some way of dusting the sawdust and swarf off the lower tire so I came up with this little brush and bracket.  Again, the requests began to flow in.  What sets my design apart from the available aftermarket is that mine simply uses the blade guard mounting stud as an anchor.  Since the brush is specific to this saw and does not require any holes to be drilled or attachments epoxied into the frame, the restorers and purists alike, gave it their approval. 


As most of you know, with the economy being kind of slow these days, many companies are pulling back on expenses.  Along those lines my two major clients informed me that due to uncertain economic climate and the cancellation of contracts, they were terminating the projects I was working on and would notify me when and if my services were needed.  Well, there is my Merry Christmas present!   :scratch:

OK, on to "Plan B".  I called my "head hunter" and they told me things were slow all over but that I was tops on their list if anything "develops". 

OK, "Plan B" ain't working, so on to "Plan C", which in my case seems to be;  "When all else fails, make your own damn parts!"  Since the weather is turning colder than I would like and heating the shop is rather costly, I moved my little Craftsman lathe to the house and bought enough material to make 20 of each of the taper pins and the leveling sleeves. 

I already had enough material to make the brush brackets and as luck would have it, I found a source for the brushes besides buying the sets from Horrible Fright.  I e-mailed the brush supplier and requested a sample of the brush, thinking they would send me one or two.  MUCH, to my surprise, a couple of days later the UPS guy showed up with a box from the supplier and my sample request had been filled with a gross of nylon bristled brushes.  I called the company and explained that the "sample" was what I was considering purchasing. When I explained that 144 brushes were actually more than I needed, the nice lady told me that the minimum on that item was a gross lot.  I told her since that was the minimum and seeing as how they had already shipped them to me I inquired how to arrange payment.  Much to my surprise, the nice lady told me to consider the sample a gift for the holidays.   :)

Roger
I'm OLD, I'm TIRED, and I'M GRUMPY!

Offline Bernd

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Re: 1949 Delta/Milwaukee 14" Band Saw
« Reply #28 on: December 14, 2008, 10:33:20 AM »
Rog,

Good for you. Glad your making a bit of cash on the side. The thing is that little blurb on that forum is world wide. Talk about free advertisement. If I were you I'd tell the customers were you got your brush from so they can replace them if they need. Kind of helping the company out that sent them to you.  :clap:

Oh, BTW, cash isn't traceable, if you know what I mean.  :wave:

Bernd
Route of the Black Diamonds

Offline Rog02

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Re: 1949 Delta/Milwaukee 14" Band Saw
« Reply #29 on: December 14, 2008, 02:55:32 PM »
Hi Bernd:

Thanks for the idea.  I think I will supply a spare brush with each holder as a courtesy.  Since the minimum order is 144 brushes at a time, I doubt if anyone would be interested in going that route.  The prototype was made with a brush from Horrible Fright, taken from the little 3 pack of toothbrush sized cleaning brushes.  I published the drawings and photo essay of the build with suppliers for those that want to copy it themselves. 

Rog,

Oh, BTW, cash isn't traceable, if you know what I mean.  :wave:
Bernd

You wouldn't be suggesting that I do something illegal would you? :bugeye:
Roger
I'm OLD, I'm TIRED, and I'M GRUMPY!

Offline Bernd

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Re: 1949 Delta/Milwaukee 14" Band Saw
« Reply #30 on: December 14, 2008, 06:14:49 PM »
Naw I wouldn't suggest that you do anything illegal. :wack:  :)
Route of the Black Diamonds

bogstandard

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Re: 1949 Delta/Milwaukee 14" Band Saw
« Reply #31 on: December 14, 2008, 06:30:59 PM »
Roger,

The way to do it, is not to sell anything.

Always do an exchange. That way, even if cash changes hands, under the taxmans lie detector, you can swear that you never sold anything, you just did a fair swap of your bits, in exchange for something that you required. ::) ::) :D

Bogs

Offline Bernd

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Re: 1949 Delta/Milwaukee 14" Band Saw
« Reply #32 on: December 14, 2008, 06:45:19 PM »
Ah yes Bogs, very well put. Or you could say you "bartered" paper for those bits.  :headbang: :D
Route of the Black Diamonds

Offline Rog02

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Re: 1949 Delta/Milwaukee 14" Band Saw
« Reply #33 on: December 14, 2008, 10:24:54 PM »
Roger,
The way to do it, is not to sell anything.
Always do an exchange. That way, even if cash changes hands, under the taxmans lie detector, you can swear that you never sold anything, you just did a fair swap of your bits, in exchange for something that you required.
Bogs

Ah yes Bogs, very well put. Or you could say you "bartered" paper for those bits.

Bogs, I can see you don't know our Internal Revenue Service at all.  You really have little appreciation of how lucky you are there, mate!  They make the rules, they enforce the rules, and they hold the court.  In other words they can killya, gutya, and cookya in one shot. :borg:

As far as "bartering" goes the IRS sees it as a cash transaction and expects payment for their cut.  They have even been known to assess values on their own and they usually value stuff at a higher rate then we would.  Also the Post Office might get involved should you receive one of those slips of paper via the mail.  AND just to cover all bases, the FBI, Federal Marshals and a couple of the other alphabet soup will get in line if you use PayPal as that constitutes "wire fraud".

I will however take payments in gold Krugerrands!
Roger
I'm OLD, I'm TIRED, and I'M GRUMPY!

Offline Bernd

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Re: 1949 Delta/Milwaukee 14" Band Saw
« Reply #34 on: December 14, 2008, 10:34:00 PM »
And we thought we were free. :whip:

Ok this thread is getting  :offtopic: and I'm not helping it any. :)
Route of the Black Diamonds

Offline Darren

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Re: 1949 Delta/Milwaukee 14" Band Saw
« Reply #35 on: December 15, 2008, 02:54:22 AM »
It's the same in the UK,

It's called "part ex". Value is place on all assets given or received in part or full payment.

Usually discovered by someone elses "books" Then the trail begins....
You will find it a distinct help… if you know and look as if you know what you are doing. (IRS training manual)

Offline sbwhart

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Re: 1949 Delta/Milwaukee 14" Band Saw
« Reply #36 on: December 17, 2008, 03:54:52 AM »
Great re build Roger enjoying your project

As for tax there are only two certainties in life DEATH and TAX

Have

Fun

Stew
A little bit of clearance never got in the road
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Offline Brass_Machine

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Re: 1949 Delta/Milwaukee 14" Band Saw
« Reply #37 on: December 17, 2008, 09:16:26 PM »
Hey Rog... I wonder if that brush idea would work with my HF bandsaw?? I think it might, could you post a link to your drawings?

Thanks
Eric
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Offline Rog02

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Re: 1949 Delta/Milwaukee 14" Band Saw
« Reply #38 on: December 21, 2008, 05:51:25 PM »
Hi Eric:
There is a good chance the brush may work on your Horrible Fright saw.  They pretty much are a copy of the durable old Delta/Milwaukee/Rockwell design.

Drawing:


Finished brush:


Roger
I'm OLD, I'm TIRED, and I'M GRUMPY!

Baldrocker

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Re: 1949 Delta/Milwaukee 14" Band Saw
« Reply #39 on: December 21, 2008, 06:50:42 PM »
Serendipity
For some time I've been wondering if an old meat saw for sale locally
could be viable to convert to metal cutting.
Now along comes Rog02, not only does he answer my question he then
goes on to show how. :bow:
BR

Offline Rog02

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Re: 1949 Delta/Milwaukee 14" Band Saw
« Reply #40 on: December 21, 2008, 08:39:50 PM »
Serendipity
For some time I've been wondering if an old meat saw for sale locally
could be viable to convert to metal cutting.
Now along comes Rog02, not only does he answer my question he then
goes on to show how. :bow:
BR

BR:

This is not a meat saw conversion.  This saw is a wood cutting model that was used to cut meat.

There are several differences in a meat saw and a wood and/or metal saw.

The meat saws are generally built with a much lighter frame as the flesh presents less resistance to the blade and therefore less tension is required.  Most meat saws I have seen do not have an adjustable upper blade guide, the throat is pretty tall which may be desirable for wood work but for metal cutting the upper blade guard is kept pretty close to the surface for stability.  The table on a meat saw is not adjustable for miter cuts, nor is there any provision for a miter gauge, as most butchers don't really pay much attention to angles.

Meat saws generally run higher blade speeds, blade speed for wood and aluminum is 2200 foot per minute and drops to 150 FPM for some steels and cast iron.  Some serious re-gearing is going to be needed.

I would give this some serious consideration before embarking on a conversion. 
Roger
I'm OLD, I'm TIRED, and I'M GRUMPY!

Offline Brass_Machine

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Re: 1949 Delta/Milwaukee 14" Band Saw
« Reply #41 on: December 21, 2008, 11:32:25 PM »
Thanks Rog!

I am going to mod my saw in the beginning of 09. Want to add a better table (removable) for vertical cutting and liquid cooling\cleaning for horizontal operations... Seams i go through a lot of blades.

Eric
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Offline Rog02

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Re: 1949 Delta/Milwaukee 14" Band Saw
« Reply #42 on: December 22, 2008, 12:15:13 AM »
Thanks Rog!

I am going to mod my saw in the beginning of 09. Want to add a better table (removable) for vertical cutting and liquid cooling\cleaning for horizontal operations... Seams i go through a lot of blades.

Eric

I mis-understood you Eric.  I thought you were talking about Horrible Fright's 14" upright band saw.  The brush as designed, probably will not work for the little 4X6 horizontal saw. 

They indeed are blade eaters as supplied from the Pacific Rim.  I have found Starret and equivalent quality blades work well and outperform the cheap blades from Horrible Fright.  Changing to a hydraulic downfeed dampener increased the quality of cuts by degrees of magnitude.  The addition of the coolant system further enhanced the performance and extended blade life.  I cut 4130 tubing and plate with mine and can get a year or more out of the blades now after extensively modifying the saw.

The best way to look at the little import horizontal saws is to consider them a partially assembled kit.  With the addition of a few parts, modification of several existing parts and some careful deliberate tweaking they can be made to work acceptably well.  Fresh out of the box they really don't get it.  An acquaintance of mine purchased one from HF and when he got it home found the castings to be so misaligned it was never going to cut straight and had to exchange it before the mods could begin.   
Roger
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Baldrocker

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Re: 1949 Delta/Milwaukee 14" Band Saw
« Reply #43 on: December 22, 2008, 06:16:34 PM »
Bugger
Thanks for that, saved me some biccies.
BR

Offline Brass_Machine

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Re: 1949 Delta/Milwaukee 14" Band Saw
« Reply #44 on: December 22, 2008, 09:52:30 PM »

I mis-understood you Eric.  I thought you were talking about Horrible Fright's 14" upright band saw.  The brush as designed, probably will not work for the little 4X6 horizontal saw. 

They indeed are blade eaters as supplied from the Pacific Rim.  I have found Starret and equivalent quality blades work well and outperform the cheap blades from Horrible Fright.  Changing to a hydraulic downfeed dampener increased the quality of cuts by degrees of magnitude.  The addition of the coolant system further enhanced the performance and extended blade life.  I cut 4130 tubing and plate with mine and can get a year or more out of the blades now after extensively modifying the saw.

The best way to look at the little import horizontal saws is to consider them a partially assembled kit.  With the addition of a few parts, modification of several existing parts and some careful deliberate tweaking they can be made to work acceptably well.  Fresh out of the box they really don't get it.  An acquaintance of mine purchased one from HF and when he got it home found the castings to be so misaligned it was never going to cut straight and had to exchange it before the mods could begin.   

It's ok Rog, I probably wasn't clear. I am using Rigid blades from Home Depot right now. I go through 1 every few months, but I do a lot of cutting. I started to tweak it, but I got further to go yet.

Eric
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Offline Lo Cash John

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Re: 1949 Delta/Milwaukee 14" Band Saw
« Reply #45 on: December 30, 2009, 10:07:36 PM »
I know this is a rather old topic, but I myself just stumbled upon this site (Yeah!!) by doing a Google search on old Delta/Milwaukee band saws.

I just bought the EXACT same saw for $100 bucks in working condition with Westinghouse 1/2 hp motor.  I love your restoration work but I doubt I'll go quit that far with mine.  One detail I don't see on yours is the On/Off switch.  Mine has a single gang electrical box with a simple On/Off light switch on the lower left corner of the stand.  Is this original?  Can you please post some pics of all 4 sides of your finished saw?

Thanks so much in advance!

Now I have days of reading to do here at this new (to me) forum.


John
  
« Last Edit: December 30, 2009, 10:09:26 PM by Lo Cash John »

Offline Rotoplane

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Re: 1949 Delta/Milwaukee 14" Band Saw
« Reply #46 on: January 06, 2010, 08:16:22 PM »
I have similar band saw that my father bought at an aution and we used it for years growing up.  It is now in need of rubber on the drive and idler wheels as well as the guard on the left band side.  Do you know where I can get parts?
My serial number is 38-6876.  It has been a great saw for many years.

Thanks,

Tom

Offline Lo Cash John

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Re: 1949 Delta/Milwaukee 14" Band Saw
« Reply #47 on: January 06, 2010, 10:05:39 PM »
I have not begun ordering parts yet.  Mine too needs the left hand blade guide/guard.  It looks like it spit the blade out a few times in it's life.

I have determined that mine does not have the original motor, but the one that's on there is very large and about the same vintage.

Offline Rog02

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Re: 1949 Delta/Milwaukee 14" Band Saw
« Reply #48 on: March 24, 2010, 11:56:27 PM »
Sorry guy's:

I haven't been around much in the past year due to family commitments (Copy that as, my family should be committed to the nearest institution :bang: :bang:)

For all the info you could ever want on these old 14" Delta/Rockwell/Milwaukee band saws check in over at OWWM Forums http://www.owwm.org/

To age your saw from the serial number go to "The Mother Ship" and check it out http://wiki.owwm.com/DeltaSerialNumbers.ashx

As for the on off switch, the original Delta motors which were optional as was the stand, had a pecker box with a toggle switch that was actuated by a push/pull rod.  I am using a foot switch on mine at the present time as it is my intention to add a treadmill motor conversion to allow for cutting ferrous metals.  Right now it cuts aluminum and wood but I would like to have the capability of cutting 4130 brackets and gussets.

As for the tire question there are several sources for the 14" tires and several materials to choose from.  Again I will point you to the OWWM website as that discussion has been had many times there and no need to waste the bandwidth here rehashing dead animals.  You will need to "crown" the tires after installation which can be done in many ways, again it is a common topic at OWWM. 
Roger
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Offline dsquire

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Re: 1949 Delta/Milwaukee 14" Band Saw
« Reply #49 on: March 25, 2010, 12:25:11 AM »
Roger

Welcome back and thanks for adding some new information to the band saw thread. Hope you have got everything under control and manage to get yourself some shop time.  :ddb: :ddb:

Cheers  :beer:

Don

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