Author Topic: Faceplate work  (Read 9669 times)

Offline Bernd

  • Madmodder Committee
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3683
  • Country: us
  • 1915 C Cab
    • Kingstone Model Works
Faceplate work
« on: September 17, 2008, 02:43:38 PM »
I believe this would be the place to place this kind of info.  :-\

Not much is ever shown on faceplate work on a lathe. It's usally about the 3 jaw and 4 jaw chuck. Well, what happens when neither will do to hold the work because it's odd shaped or just can't be held in a jawed chuck. You would use the face plate. The newbie may be asking at this time, "What's a face plate?".

Below is a picture of a face plate. On it is mounted a sacirfical aluminum faceplate bolted on from the back. The blue part on the lathe will get mounted on the plate. Note that the blue part, the bottom part of a water well cap, is in two pieces. That's why the faceplate is used. I need to make the dia. 5.5". When made the cap is 6" dia.



Here the blue plate is mounted to the aluminum plate with 4 1/4-20 screws and a center draw rod to hold everything nice and tight. You'll notice I've changed lathes. The little 9X19 Grizzly belt slipped just trying to take a skim cut on the od of the part.



And here is the finished part. It also shows the "all-thread' rod I used as a draw rod to give the part more holding power.



This is one way to use a face plate. You can consider it a table that is horzontially held to do work. This could have been done on a mill with a rotory table or a CNC mill that can cut circles. Many ways of doing it, but when all you've got is a lathe, it's the best way. :)

Bernd
You can't fix "STUPID".

Offline Brass_Machine

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5274
  • Country: us
Re: Faceplate work
« Reply #1 on: September 17, 2008, 04:04:39 PM »
I am currently working on a faceplate with a sliding work mount to make machining eccentrics an easier job. I will post pictures of it later.

Good job on this one!

Eric
Science is fun.

We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.

Offline Divided he ad

  • WARNING: LIKES SHINEY THINGS
  • The Collective
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1949
  • Country: gb
  • Between Chester, Wrexham, ruthin & Holywell :-)
Re: Faceplate work
« Reply #2 on: September 17, 2008, 07:59:29 PM »
Nice idea that sacrificial mounting plate.

I am not too happy to hear the 9x19 belt slips.... my 9x20 is basically the same machine!! Cest la vie!!


Now, what else can/have you made on the same said plate?



Ralph.
I know what I know and need to know more!!!

Offline Bernd

  • Madmodder Committee
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3683
  • Country: us
  • 1915 C Cab
    • Kingstone Model Works
Re: Faceplate work
« Reply #3 on: September 17, 2008, 09:43:39 PM »
I am currently working on a faceplate with a sliding work mount to make machining eccentrics an easier job. I will post pictures of it later.

Guy of Bedside reader fame has one in one of his books I think. :-\  I kind of like that idea too for eccentrics. I'm going to have to look now that you got my curiosity up.

Quote
Good job on this one!

Eric

Why thank thee sir. Just trying to help get this forum going with some ideas for newbies and us older generation.  8)

Bernd
You can't fix "STUPID".

Offline Bernd

  • Madmodder Committee
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3683
  • Country: us
  • 1915 C Cab
    • Kingstone Model Works
Re: Faceplate work
« Reply #4 on: September 17, 2008, 09:51:09 PM »
Nice idea that sacrificial mounting plate.

It saves on the wear and tear on the original faceplate. That piece and the one on the Logan lathe were both made from square 6061 1/2" thick aluminum plate.

Quote
I am not too happy to hear the 9x19 belt slips.... my 9x20 is basically the same machine!! Cest la vie!!

I screwed up on that Ralph. It wasn't the belt but the pulley on the drive. It's set to break loose before the belt breaks. It's better that way. Apperently I was over taxing the lathe with the diameter I wanted to turn. I won't worry about your lathe.

Quote
Now, what else can/have you made on the same said plate?



Ralph.

The one on the Grizzly lathe was made to turn a bushing that was pressed into a clutch assembly for a go-cart. I needed to hold the clutch so I could ream and bore the bushing to proper size. The face plate on the Logan? I can't remember what job it was used before this one. They are nice to use. I'll post to this thrread if I come up with more ideas on using the faceplate.

Bernd
You can't fix "STUPID".

Offline Divided he ad

  • WARNING: LIKES SHINEY THINGS
  • The Collective
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1949
  • Country: gb
  • Between Chester, Wrexham, ruthin & Holywell :-)
Re: Faceplate work
« Reply #5 on: September 18, 2008, 01:05:31 PM »
Well....
Quote
I won't worry about your lathe.
I'm sure you won't!! But I would not expect you too since it is 2000+ miles away!!!   ;)  ;D


Sorry, just read funny  ;D


I understand where you are conning from, that's why I asked Boggie if he could make me a large pulley when his new machine was finally sorted... I'd never make a 12" pulley on my little lathe!


More on the face plate would be good too.... It all gets stored you know  :thumbup:




Ralph.
I know what I know and need to know more!!!

Offline Nelson92757

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 11
Re: Faceplate work
« Reply #6 on: September 30, 2008, 07:03:07 PM »
Nice job Bernd, it is the solution we come up with that makes a project work out. I like the idea of the aluminum plate. next time I fire up my furnace I'll will make me some disc to be able to use for sacirfical faceplates. Thanks for a good idea.
nelson Collar

Offline Bernd

  • Madmodder Committee
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3683
  • Country: us
  • 1915 C Cab
    • Kingstone Model Works
Re: Faceplate work
« Reply #7 on: October 05, 2008, 08:50:52 PM »
Thanks Nelson. Sorry to answer back so late. Had a few issues with family to straighten out.

BTW, welcome to the forum. Many subjects can be discussed here, so enjoy.  :thumbup:

When you cast that faceplate just use the dimension form a regular faceplate, bore the neter hole and thread. I won't put any slots in it as you may want to drill holes for mounting your part.

Regards,
Bernd
You can't fix "STUPID".

Offline sbwhart

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3520
  • Country: gb
  • Smile, Be Happy, Have Fun and Rock Until you Drop
Re: Faceplate work
« Reply #8 on: December 17, 2008, 01:09:01 PM »
Her's a couple of more face plate jobs

The first one is maching the inside cylinders for my Loco. The critical feature with inside loco cylinders is that they are parrallel (sorry if spelt wrong), you clamp it sqaure on the angle plate clamp the angle plate to the face plate so that the vertical height is correct bolt a parrallel under neath to set the vertical datum, for the horizontal position you use your centre height gauge, machine the bore, move the angle plate to set horizontal position of second bore machine it and if you've done it right the bores will be parrallel to each other. The pile of clamps are a counterbalancefor the off set mass of the angle plate, if you dont do this your machine will go walk about around your shop  :bugeye:



The second job is a sacrificial chunk of ally set up in four jaw as a face plate. It's been faced off and a piece of mild steel screwed and glued in the midle which is machined for a nice fit on bore the loco wheels with a short length threaded  so that the wheel casting can be bolted to the plate, this way the wheels can be machined up so that they are all the same diameter and concentric to their bores.  you can take the wheels on and off as many times as you like and you won't lose your setting.



Hace fun :D

Stew
A little bit of clearance never got in the road
 :wave:

Location:- Crewe Cheshire

Offline Bernd

  • Madmodder Committee
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3683
  • Country: us
  • 1915 C Cab
    • Kingstone Model Works
Re: Faceplate work
« Reply #9 on: December 17, 2008, 06:21:18 PM »
Stew,

It looks like you'd need 3 more hands to hold that first set up to get everything aligned and bolted tight.  :)

I like that idea for the wheels.

Bernd
You can't fix "STUPID".

Offline sbwhart

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3520
  • Country: gb
  • Smile, Be Happy, Have Fun and Rock Until you Drop
Re: Faceplate work
« Reply #10 on: December 18, 2008, 03:11:03 AM »
Yes it was a bit of a juggle  :whip:I ended up chocking it up with blocks of wood so thet I could get some bolt in to take the weight  :thumbup:

But to be honest these methods for making Loco bits are not mine, there are lots of books available on building Loco's that show you these old tried a tested techniques.

Have fun

Stew
A little bit of clearance never got in the road
 :wave:

Location:- Crewe Cheshire

Offline Bernd

  • Madmodder Committee
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3683
  • Country: us
  • 1915 C Cab
    • Kingstone Model Works
Re: Faceplate work
« Reply #11 on: December 18, 2008, 09:27:56 AM »
Your right that it's not new. Kozo shows that in his books on building his three logging locomotives. Also if your a half-ar*ed machinits you should know to turn an arbor and things will always run true on it.  :headbang:

Glad I'm not a Colonial. I know how to mount err................ :lol:

Bernd
You can't fix "STUPID".

Offline sbwhart

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3520
  • Country: gb
  • Smile, Be Happy, Have Fun and Rock Until you Drop
Re: Faceplate work
« Reply #12 on: December 18, 2008, 12:30:13 PM »
Hi Bernd

The arbour was for the newbies.

Just had a look at your trailer on your site great job,  :thumbup: but it would be too big for UK roads it's what we would call  "Convoy Exceptional" thats French for wide load.  :D

I see youe interested in Shays I think they're great Locos, seen a couple of models at exhibitions in the UK but never seen one running on a track.

This is a great site for step by step loco build it also has some good links to Shays

http://mokei-jouki.hp.infoseek.co.jp/e-Wiltop.htm

Have Fun
 :wave:
Stew
A little bit of clearance never got in the road
 :wave:

Location:- Crewe Cheshire

Offline Bernd

  • Madmodder Committee
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3683
  • Country: us
  • 1915 C Cab
    • Kingstone Model Works
Re: Faceplate work
« Reply #13 on: December 18, 2008, 01:58:10 PM »
If you like Shays and how to build one here's a very nice site. This is were I got my insperation. 
http://www.nelsonslocomotive.com/

Thanks Stew. On the trailer I could have gone longer. The width limit is 8'6" over the fenders. The only other limiting factor is how much weight you want to carry. Right now I believe 10,000lb's is the limit for my driver licence.


Bernd
You can't fix "STUPID".

Offline sbwhart

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3520
  • Country: gb
  • Smile, Be Happy, Have Fun and Rock Until you Drop
Re: Faceplate work
« Reply #14 on: December 18, 2008, 04:03:37 PM »
Hi Bernd

Thanks for the Shay link had a quick scan through it and added it to my favourites I'll have a real good read through it tomorrow, I love seeing how people work round problem there inginuity never fails to amaze me:- off down the pub now to sink a few beers.  :beer:

Cheers

Stew
A little bit of clearance never got in the road
 :wave:

Location:- Crewe Cheshire

Offline Bernd

  • Madmodder Committee
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3683
  • Country: us
  • 1915 C Cab
    • Kingstone Model Works
Re: Faceplate work
« Reply #15 on: December 18, 2008, 08:05:40 PM »
If I remeber right your over in the UK. So it's 9:03PM there when you posted this. Yup, just about the right time to hit the pubs.

Nelsons site is the best I've found on the net on building a Shay. I've never seen such detail description of an engine build any were else. BTW I've got the engine kit for that Shay.

Bernd
You can't fix "STUPID".

Offline John Stevenson

  • In Memoriam
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1645
  • Nottingham, England.
Re: Faceplate work
« Reply #16 on: December 18, 2008, 08:38:03 PM »
I often use sacrificial facings made of MDF so I can screw sheet material to.



This faceplate was a job I did last week, the plate is 21" diameter and just misses the carriage hence the rounded corners on the MDF.

This was to hold some 10mm thick tufnol sheet to make 4 big washers for formers for a big solinoid.



That's a 3' rule for scale, once would with magnet wire this should flatten the odd PP3 battery  :headbang:

John S.

John Stevenson

Offline Bernd

  • Madmodder Committee
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3683
  • Country: us
  • 1915 C Cab
    • Kingstone Model Works
Re: Faceplate work
« Reply #17 on: December 18, 2008, 10:09:03 PM »
That's some big lathe you've got there.

Clever idea for doing thin stock like sheet metal. :dremel: :thumbup:

That wouldn't be for a Tesla Coil would it?  :zap:

Bernd
You can't fix "STUPID".

Offline John Stevenson

  • In Memoriam
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1645
  • Nottingham, England.
Re: Faceplate work
« Reply #18 on: December 19, 2008, 04:26:11 AM »
No idea what it is for.
Like a lot of my work I only get part of it or just a drawing.
This is for a local rewinder who is doing the winding but the job has come from some university thru another rewind company.

I use this method a lot to do thin disks, mainly in tufnol for brush ring gear on older DC motors where there are no spares available.
Lately though I have been using the benchtop CNC router to get a finished part off at one pop.

Sit in the house at night and program it up then cut it in the morning.



This would have taken a bit of setting up to machine by hand but a quick file up in the corners and it's clear to go.

John S.
John Stevenson

Offline Bernd

  • Madmodder Committee
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3683
  • Country: us
  • 1915 C Cab
    • Kingstone Model Works
Re: Faceplate work
« Reply #19 on: December 19, 2008, 11:43:42 AM »

Lately though I have been using the benchtop CNC router to get a finished part off at one pop.

John S.

John,

How about starting another thread with some pics of your "benchtop router".  :thumbup:  :clap:

I'm always interested in something like that for model work.

Bernd
You can't fix "STUPID".