Scrappy lifts his prices!!

[raynerd]

Went to my local scrappy a few days ago and went straight away to the little black brass bin. I`m sure I`m the only one who goes to it or at least I`m certain similar stock is in there each time I go, infact, I`m certain I can identify the same pieces! Anyway, price last few times has been £2.80 / kg. The one down the road is £2.50 / kg but he only has brass bar in occasionally and they are normally massive. Infact, I`ve not been for a while as it pretty much dried up and besides at £2.80 I can always get what I want from the "black bin" as it has various sizes in there. Anyway, I went in and picked up a handful of bits and asked for a price... £4.00 / kg he said!!! "You’re a model engineer, I`ve seen the prices your paying for this stuff" ... I was well annoyed.

Anyway, we weighed it and it came in at 6kg, we haggled and he really wouldn`t budge. I said what I use to pay and what it was at the scrappy down the road and he really wouldn`t move. I even nearly put it down but when he asked for £24, I said I had a £20 in my pocket and he took that which when only buying a small amount, actually brought the price down, unknowingly to him I think to £3.33 / kg .

My point was, next time I go when he demands his £4 per kilo do I take it... I`m stubborn and I nearly put this lot down out of principle but when I thought about it I`d be cutting my nose of to spite my face. This is what I got for my money:





Believe it or not but the drill stand was a gift from the worker who was watching me haggle with his boss! He knew he was fleecing me and ran out after me and said take that too! Lol, things must be bad!! He is a nice bloke but his boss is an ars3.
I suppose when you sit back and look at what I got for £20 it isn`t so bad and much much cheaper than what I`d pay off ebay….of course the problem online is postage.
I think I was just shocked with his change of price as though he had found out the sort of “online costs” and decided to shift his price to match. I know you shouldn`t judge people on what they wear but people do and I did go in wearing my scruffs but I`m going to send my bro in law in next time with his riggers on after a dirty day at work….see what price he asks off him.


Oh and by the way... he scales are weighing low - I`ve got nearer 9kg of brass!

[John Stevenson]

You are probably on the better off side.
Just priced a job up today, 3/8" brass bar in 10'6" lengths before delivery and VAT is £27.00
two years ago it was £9.00

3 slices of 6" brass, 1" wide for slip rings, £85.00 each, these are all from my regular non ferous supplier who is usually on the ball on market prices.

[wheeltapper]

You can make a good tapping stand with that drill press.


Roy

[Bluechip]

You are probably on the better off side.
Just priced a job up today, 3/8" brass bar in 10'6" lengths before delivery and VAT is £27.00
two years ago it was £9.00

3 slices of 6" brass, 1" wide for slip rings, £85.00 each, these are all from my regular non ferous supplier who is usually on the ball on market prices.

14 quid-ish here for 3m of 3/8"  ... unless you're after something posher than CZ121  .. shipping is horrendous tho .. but then long lengths .. dunno  

http://www.aluminiumwarehouse.co.uk/Brass-Round_Bar/c99_115/p2730/Brass_Round_Bar_(CZ121)_3/8_in/product_info.html

DBC

[Lew_Merrick_PE]

Were I a wise man (rather than just a wise guy), I might have some answers here.  Back in 2005 I needed 16,000 lbs of ø12.00 HRS merchant round bar.  The best price we could get was $1.65/lb here in the U.S.  The price has dropped since then to about $0.85/lb for HRS merchant bar.  I am told repeatedly that this is because the Chinese are bidding up the price of steel.  I am somewhat amused by this as I often write reports on bids for medium-scale manufacturing.  When you "back out" the known pricing, it is apparent that the Chinese are charging us (Americans at a minimum) between $0.02 and $0.04 per pound for low and medium carbon steel.

Back in 2003 I delivered an assembly fixture to a customer in (Vancouver) Canada.  The original fixture was built in 1994 for a short-run assembly.  My customer was going to pick up (and pay for) the fixture when they got the "and-on" order.  This did not happen until 2003 and, needing to meet with another customer in the area, I drove it up.  The base of the fixture was a piece of (1 X 28 X 42 inch) aluminum plate.  They (my customer for the fixture) decided that they wanted to build it up on a CI surface plate they had picked up, so we transferred the hole pattern and I took the plate back with me.  Had I not had the receipts for the plate with me, American customs would have charged me $1100+ in "duties" for the plate.  At the time in question, 6061-T6 aluminum plate was selling for $8.45/lb in the U.S. -- but only $2.65/lb in Canada.

It has been cheaper for me to go to the local Harbor Freight store and buy Chinese anvils than it is for me to go to wrecking yards and buy "can't be turned again" brake drums when I want CI for a casting.  Once again, the statement is made that the Chinese have driven up the price of scrap CI.  If that is true, why are they selling us CI anvils for less than 1/3rd what they charge for CI in the form of anvils?

I have no idea what is going on in this regard.

[raynerd]

You can make a good tapping stand with that drill press.

Roy

Hey, good job Roy!! I did think that is what I`d use it for and now I`ve seen yours then I`ll do that for sure. What bits have you made to put it together?

Chris

[wheeltapper]

Hi
As you can see I turned the body upside down to get more clearance for the handle.
I made a stepped insert to fit the clamp that would normally hold the drill,a shaft with an old drill chuck fitted passing through a close fitting hole in the insert, a collar with a clamp screw to hold the shaft up when fitting the tap and a handle.

you can get a nice bit of torque for a large tap with the long handles and for a small tap, just use thumb and finger on the centre of the handle.

the first time I used this was to tap 10 blind 4 mm holes for a grinding rest.


definitely a can't do without tool.

Cheers
Roy


Oh BTW the hollow tube is just right for storing the chuck key.

[Ned Ludd]

Hi Chris,
If your scrappy asks too much for his wares, citing Model Engineers suppliers as a reason, ask him for a certificate of conformity.
Ned

[Artie]

Hi guys, Im happy to report a win with the scrappy...

Just bought a length (3.8m) of ali bar 63mm in Dia 6061 T1 FOR $147 delivered to my door. Naturally I donty need all of this so Im thinking of parting some off and throwing it at ebay.

And they have about 50 lengths of the stuff, may get another....

[raynerd]

...this bloke at my scrappy is seriously 

after complaining at his high prices, £2 for ally per kg last time I went in and £4 /kg for brass, he charges me £5 for 10kg of cracking 8mm ally plate and a small piece of 2kg brass round ! I`m not complaining ... 

...oh and that was while being fully suited and booted, tie on, on the way home from work. I thought after being thourghly shafted last time I went in wearing rags, things couldn`t go much worse. I think it depends on how he gets out of bed!!
Chris

[winklmj]

I'm paying $1.50US a pound for aluminum; $3.50US a pound for brass; and $0.25US for steel/iron. If I did the math right--you're doing better than I am. But, it's still way cheaper than buying new and I don't have to pay for shipping (only spend a hour or so digging in the scrap yard each week).

[DavidA]

Ned,

...Hi Chris,
If your scrappy asks too much for his wares, citing Model Engineers suppliers as a reason, ask him for a certificate of conformity.
Ned...

To which he'll reply that he is selling you an unspecified copper alloy.  And if you don't like it go elsewhere; or some local expression with a similar meaning.

Sorry folks,  it's called market forces.

He could,  of course,  be reading these posts.

Dave.

[raynerd]

Just wondering what you chaps are paying currently from your scrap yards?

Same yard as above and I`m now firmly paying £5 a Kg from brass. My mate went in and also purchased some last month and was charged the same. I purchased two bars yesterday -  2"dia x 5" and about 1 3/4" x 8"   and it was 5kg...he asked for £25 and I offered £20, he took £22.  Which actually worked out at about £4.40 a Kg.

Just curious...

Chris

[winklmj]

$1.00 to $1.50 a LB (US) for Aluminum.
$3.00 to $3.50 for Brass.

Have not purchased any steel in a while but last trip there was a 2"x6' piece of 1144 stressproof sitting there. I didn't know what it was but after some research I'm going back for it.

[loply]

Is brass particularly more expensive than steel?

I never use brass and have never used a scrap yard, however, the usual 'sort' of prices I get from the offcut section at my local giant steel warehouse is £10 for a three foot length of 50mm mild steel bar and 6 foot of 20mm bar. Time before that paid £10 for a foot of 40mm steel, two foot of 30mm steel and about 8 foot of 50x40x5 box section.

[raynerd]

loppy, Yes, it is!!!! I picked up two pieces of about 3" dia x 12" length, must be well well over 25kg and I paid about £3 for two pieces! He doesn`t even bother weighing the steel, just looks at it and gives me a prices. But the brass.....that gets weighed for sure!!!

[philf]

loppy, Yes, it is!!!! I picked up two pieces of about 3" dia x 12" length, must be well well over 25kg and I paid about £3 for two pieces! He doesn`t even bother weighing the steel, just looks at it and gives me a prices. But the brass.....that gets weighed for sure!!!

Hi Chris,

Where is your steel supplier?

I need some sizeable lumps for my CNC conversion.

Before I retired, free lumps of steel were no problem. Along with my lunchtime sorties to the waste skip armed with pocket fulls of spanners, screwdrivers and allen keys, it's one of the few things I miss about work. (When I retired I was presented with a miniature, polished brass skip in recognition of 38 years of dedicated skip-diving!)

I'm enjoying watching your progress on the clock - well done.

Cheers.

Phil.

[raynerd]

Hi Phil, no sign of the cross slide bits yet?

Send me an email and I`ll let you know. It isn`t a "supplier" just a scrap yard. Some days he has loads in and others not so much...but very cheap for steel.

Chris

[mechman48]

Hi all 

My two 'pennorth; went to a few scrappies last week looking for CI, brass, ally, to stock up on materials but most of them 'round here are car breakers & put the stuff through the pulverisor/shredder so not a lot of joy. Asked the question at one & the foreman said try so & so's, they tend to do recycling.
Called in to so & so's and asked the supervisor the question; they didn't have much in the way of Alum' bar stock only tons of window frame sections,not much in the CI dept either apart from huge industrial cast valves etc, too big for my needs, anyhow rummaging through the brass pile, mostly plumbing fittings & the like, I struck it lucky & came across a few bits of square bar, flat bar small dia. round bar & small flats  . After picking the best pieces I had them weighed up.. 16.2 kilos!  cost me £50..so that worked out to £3.09p per kilo, obviously no test certs etc but for that price I aint complaining 

Did some talking with him & discovered he was into model making albeit in plastic kit form & was presently making a Tiger tank so he said he would keep his eyes open  for more, & for ally & CI, & would put it off to one side for me so if I can call by at the end of the month he may have some decent bits for me..it pays to talk..hmm, where have I heard that before  so possibly a future supplier for general non critical stuff ..here's hoping 
Have att pic.
Cheers
George.

ps, todays prices seem to be about £4 per kilo, but still lower than retail.

Winklmj.. who's your scrappie? definately somthing amiss there  ..lucky you.

[winklmj]

I've been using two lately. The one huge place--they buy up all the stuff from the smaller scrappers. It still varies from $1.00 to $1.50 for aluminum and usually $0.25 for steel/iron. Problem now is they've done away with one of their aluminum bins--they used to separate the really clean/solid aluminum into it--but now it all gets dumped into the huge piles with everything else. Makes digging around a bit harder but still very worth the effort.

I've found a smaller place as well, they get lots of odds and ends and they don't have a shredder--so anything they get equipment-wise is usually reusable. I'm still amazed at what some people throw out. I picked up 50lbs of aluminum and stainless today--$1.00 a pound.

FYI, I did go back for that piece of stressproof. Damn thing was so heavy it's all I could carry--$25.00.

[ibuildstuff4u]

I used to go the scrap yard for my metal, but got sick of their attitude every time I went.  The have a sign saying that you can dig through the yard as long as you sign a wavier, but when you ask to do so they give me a hard time and grill me on what I'm looking for.  Hell I don't know let me look and I will let you know what I'm interested in!

This year I gave up on the scrap yard and have been buying my metal from Metal Express.  They have a local store in my town and will sell by the inch if needed, but the prices are better if you buy it by the foot.  They guys are great there and even let me dig in the scrap bin for random cut offs which they sell for $1.00 a pound for aluminum.

If there is a Metal Express in your area I strongly suggest trying them out.  They have a web site, but most locations have better prices if you go in person.

Dale P.