Author Topic: Sieg X2 CNC conversion  (Read 71548 times)

Offline spuddevans

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Re: Sieg X2 CNC conversion
« Reply #25 on: September 21, 2010, 01:16:23 AM »
That's great Eric, I'm glad you're carrying on with your conversion, I look forward to reading all about it.

I'm at a bit of a standstill at the moment, just waiting for some parts to arrive, I have to re-assemble the mill though so hopefully that will fill in the time til the parts show up.


Tim
Measure with a micrometer, mark with chalk, cut with an axe  -  MI0TME

Offline Brass_Machine

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Re: Sieg X2 CNC conversion
« Reply #26 on: September 21, 2010, 10:07:33 AM »
Great job so far Chris.

Thanks Fred  :lol:


Doh!!    :doh: :hammer: :hammer: TIM I meant Tim!!  :lol: :lol: Teach me to read Chris's post on your thread before I reply!!

Eric
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Offline spuddevans

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Re: Sieg X2 CNC conversion
« Reply #27 on: September 28, 2010, 04:39:43 PM »
Well, after ordering them on the 13th of this month, the Ballscrews arrived today from China. Here's a shot of the longest one sitting on my mill table. They may not be the best in the world, but for me they will do just nicely. If needs be they can be upgraded at a later point if the need arises, but I think they will do just fine for my home use.




I also have got most of the ali' that I need for the stepper mounts, and I also have the bearings, pulleys and couplings that I need ( I think  :scratch:)


Here's a shot of the ballscrew with the Ballnut removed and all the (48) ballbearings and the white plastic "wiper" for keeping debris out of the ballnut. The little orange recessed bits on the ballnut are re-circulation passages for the ballbearings to run through.




I have seen that other folks have used a homemade split collet to protect the ballscrew while machining the ends, but as I have an ER32 collet setup on my lathe that I have used to clamp (relatively) soft brass without causing damage any to it, I decided to use it to hold the ballscrew in the lathe, and it worked ok.




These ballscrews are hardened, but only on the outside, so I used carbide tooling. It worked really well, much easier than I was expecting, I was able to take 0.2mm cuts even on the hardened sections. So I turned down the end to 10mm diameter for a length of about 10mm ish (thats a metric "ish" by the way).

Then I extended the ballscre out a bit more until I had about 40mm sticking out of the chuck in total. I then turned down the rest to 11.95mm-11.98mm. This is to fit a 12mm id bearing. Once I got a nice close sliding fit I marked off the 10mm or so that was left between the bearing and the 10mm section and set about threading it M12.



The end result is here:-




Now the less-than-completely-blind of you may well have noticed that the thread does not appear to be that clean. I would like to say that it is completely an anomaly caused by the phases of the 3rd moon of jupiter, but I cant. I made the mistake of using a threading tool that had 0 degrees top relief. This kinda shredded its way through the thread. I only realised this about half-way to depth, and so after I realised it I carefully removed the toolbit from the QC holder and ground some top relief on it and replaced it. Threading went much better after this. Anyway, even though it looks kinda rough, it will be ok for this.

But before I cut the thread to full depth I hunted high and low through the workshop to try and find even one M12 nut, but I didnt have anything M12. So I dug a little 20mm round steel bar out of the "scrap" pile and set about drilling and tapping it M12. Handily it had a central hole already there.

I then clamped my 3jaw onto the mill table to hold and drill the steel "nut".



Once this was done I was able to cut the thread to full depth, testing with my "nut" to make sure it fit ok. (having a M12 die would have been really helpful)


Here's a shot of the completed machined-end with double row angular contact bearing, small space for locknuts, and then the oldham coupling in place.





The one thing I was kinda dreading was haveing to repack the ballnut with the 48 ballbearings, so much so I had been contemplating turning the ballscrews without removing the ballnuts, but that would not have been a safe thing for me to do. However, it turned out to be a fairly simple process with these ballnuts. In fact the easiest way seemed to be to just start the ballscrew in the empty ballnut ( they have a plastic wiper on each end that are threaded to match the ballscrew) and just pop in about a third of the balls and "jiggle" the screw and nut while gently turning the screw into the nut a couple of rotations, then add another third of the ballbearings, jiggle and then repeat for the last third. They all went in and the screw turns without any binding or feelable backlash.


So, that is the Y-axis ballscrew machined on one end ( I dont think I need to machine the other end ), next up will be the long X-axis ballscrew which will get an identical end machined on it, and then the Z ballscrew which will be a little simpler.


Tim
Measure with a micrometer, mark with chalk, cut with an axe  -  MI0TME

Offline John Stevenson

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Re: Sieg X2 CNC conversion
« Reply #28 on: September 28, 2010, 05:22:20 PM »
Tim,

Don't know if it's too late or you have any more to do but if you get a bit of 14mm bar and turn about 0.5mm off the diameter and push this up to the end of the screw you can unwind the nut onto it without loosing all the balls.
A bit of tape at both ends after stops it sliding off.

To refit you just push the bar up to the screw again and wind on.

John S.
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Offline spuddevans

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Re: Sieg X2 CNC conversion
« Reply #29 on: September 28, 2010, 05:36:50 PM »
Tim,

Don't know if it's too late or you have any more to do but if you get a bit of 14mm bar and turn about 0.5mm off the diameter and push this up to the end of the screw you can unwind the nut onto it without loosing all the balls.
A bit of tape at both ends after stops it sliding off.

To refit you just push the bar up to the screw again and wind on.

John S.

Thanks John :thumbup: :thumbup: That's a really useful tip. I have already removed the X-axis nut, but I will try your tip with the Z-axis, and with the others if I need to remove the nuts for any reason.


Tim
Measure with a micrometer, mark with chalk, cut with an axe  -  MI0TME

Offline Imagineering

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Re: Sieg X2 CNC conversion
« Reply #30 on: October 16, 2010, 11:22:28 PM »
Help required, please . . .

I have acquired the same boards as you and have no documentation to suit.
I've been searching the Web for days, found this Page and have joined this Forum expressly to ask these questions.

I have figured out from your excellent Photos, that a Red Wire goes from Breakout Board P2, and a White Wire from P3.
Looking at the Photo of the Stepper Controller Board, I see the Red Wire going to the Pulse Pin, and the White to the Dir Pin.

Query 1;
Can you confirm that each of the even Numbered Output Pins, ie P2, P4 etc are Pulse Pins, and that the odd Numbers are Dir Pins??

Query 2;
Can you tell me which DB25 Pins control which Breakout Board Output Pins?
I will be running a 4-Axis Mill, (Sieg SX3), with these Boards under Mach3. (X. Y, Z & A)

Query 3;
 I have a 24Volt 100Amp PSU which I intend using for this Project. Is it feasable/advisable to take the 24V and drop it to 5V for the Breakout & Stepper Boards as well as feeding the Steppers, or is it better to have a seperate 5V supply?

Looking forward to a reply

Murray McKenzie
New Zealand.

.

« Last Edit: October 17, 2010, 06:15:54 AM by Imagineering »

Offline spuddevans

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Re: Sieg X2 CNC conversion
« Reply #31 on: October 17, 2010, 10:13:44 AM »
Help required, please . . .

I have acquired the same boards as you and have no documentation to suit.
I've been searching the Web for days, found this Page and have joined this Forum expressly to ask these questions.

Let me welcome you to the forum, its a great place to hang out :mmr:

Quote
I have figured out from your excellent Photos, that a Red Wire goes from Breakout Board P2, and a White Wire from P3.
Looking at the Photo of the Stepper Controller Board, I see the Red Wire going to the Pulse Pin, and the White to the Dir Pin.

Query 1;
Can you confirm that each of the even Numbered Output Pins, ie P2, P4 etc are Pulse Pins, and that the odd Numbers are Dir Pins??

Yes that's how I have wired it, P2,4,6,8 are pulse to the steppers and P3,5,7,9 are the direction controls. P14,1,16,17 are used for my charge-pump circuit, spindle speed control and 2 relays for coolant and possibly spindle direction.

Quote
Query 2;
Can you tell me which DB25 Pins control which Breakout Board Output Pins?
I will be running a 4-Axis Mill, (Sieg SX3), with these Boards under Mach3. (X. Y, Z & A)

As far as I know they are the same as they are numbered on the outputs on the breakout board, ie P2 (which goes to the stepper driver pulse input) is actually pin 2 on the DB25 connector (although it is opto-isolated on my board)

Quote
Query 3;
 I have a 24Volt 100Amp PSU which I intend using for this Project. Is it feasable/advisable to take the 24V and drop it to 5V for the Breakout & Stepper Boards as well as feeding the Steppers, or is it better to have a seperate 5V supply?

It would be a better idea to have seperate power supplies for the breakout board, and if you have the same C6 spindle speed control from CNC4PC that I have, it is very important that it is powered from its own dedicated power supply, otherwise it can blow your breakout board and stepper drivers.

That's why I have put a couple of extra transformers in my box to give me plenty of totally isolated supplies.

You might find that your steppers will not have their full strength/speed on just 24V. A really good place for info is the cnczone forum, I've learnt a huge amount from reading on there.



Tim
Measure with a micrometer, mark with chalk, cut with an axe  -  MI0TME

Offline Imagineering

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Re: Sieg X2 CNC conversion
« Reply #32 on: October 17, 2010, 03:21:21 PM »
Thank you Tim, this is the information I've been seeking for days.
The Boards that I'm using are totally identical to yours, so I'll pick your Brains again if I have problems, (if you don't mind).
I wont be using a spindle Controller, as the SX3 has Electronic Spindle Control on the Head Unit.

As I usually switch on the CPU, then the Control Electronics, is a Charge Pump needed?

Murray

Offline spuddevans

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Re: Sieg X2 CNC conversion
« Reply #33 on: October 17, 2010, 03:44:42 PM »
The Boards that I'm using are totally identical to yours, so I'll pick your Brains again if I have problems, (if you don't mind).

You are more than welcome, pick away, but I warn you that there is "slim pickings" in my brains  :lol: :lol:


Quote
I wont be using a spindle Controller, as the SX3 has Electronic Spindle Control on the Head Unit.

As I usually switch on the CPU, then the Control Electronics, is a Charge Pump needed?

In a perfect world you wouldnt need one, and if you are careful to always do just as plan to then it should be ok. My own charge-pump type circuit is nowhere as good as a proper charge-pump, something I may upgrade to in the future. The reason is, what if the unthinkable happens and windows crashes, even my system would most likely keep on working until I hit the emergancy stop button myself. But with the proper charge pump circuit then if windows crashes then the charge pump signal would also cease and thereby cut the steppers and spindle dead.

Feel free to ask anything else, I may not know the answer, but there are plenty of others who are more knowledgable on here.


Tim
Measure with a micrometer, mark with chalk, cut with an axe  -  MI0TME

Offline Imagineering

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Re: Sieg X2 CNC conversion
« Reply #34 on: October 18, 2010, 07:28:58 AM »

Which Forum on CNCZone did you go to for Charge Pump info? (preferably "Charge Pump 101 for Newbies")

You didn't happen to document all your Circuit Wiring did you??:D

.

Offline spuddevans

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Re: Sieg X2 CNC conversion
« Reply #35 on: October 18, 2010, 08:16:48 AM »

Which Forum on CNCZone did you go to for Charge Pump info? (preferably "Charge Pump 101 for Newbies")

You didn't happen to document all your Circuit Wiring did you??:D

.

There wasnt a specific forum about Charge pump info, I was meaning that I have learnt a lot in general about CNC by reading a lot in the Benchtop Machine forum, but I dont think there is a "Charge Pump 101 for Newbies" thread, I just have picked up a lot from reading the various build threads.


I havent documented the wiring any more than in described here, but it is fairly straightfoward stuff. If you have any specific questions just ask.

Tim
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Offline John Swift

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Re: Sieg X2 CNC conversion
« Reply #36 on: October 18, 2010, 08:26:52 AM »
I've no idea when I found the charge pump circuits , but this may give you an idea
« Last Edit: October 18, 2010, 08:46:07 AM by John Swift »

Offline Imagineering

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Re: Sieg X2 CNC conversion
« Reply #37 on: October 18, 2010, 04:13:55 PM »
Hmmm, thanks Tim & John.

What I really need is to understand what a Charge Pump is, what it does, and how it relates to the CNC Conversion.

Murray.

Offline John Swift

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Re: Sieg X2 CNC conversion
« Reply #38 on: October 18, 2010, 04:40:37 PM »
Hi Murray ,

the charge pump circuit is a basic safety interlock so that the motors can only run if the control pc is
generating the 12.5 khz signal
this stops random outputs from the pc while booting up or when it crashes
being a danger to you or your cnc machine

if you look at figure 1 in the PDF
the 12.5 khz signal is ac coupled to the two diodes and the fets gate ( the charge pump bit, note in this circuit the charge is stored on the gate its self )
its a simple  circuit that provides the bias to switch on the fet and the relay
the relay contacts are then connected to your control circuit to enable the motors
 
when the pc stops working  ,a logic 1 (+5v)or logic 0 ( 0v)  from the printer port can not enable the motors

the second diagram is a watch dog timer

the 12.5 khz pulses reset the timer just before it times out ,to keep the motor control enabled

(think of the train driver pushing the dead man switch when the buzzer sounds so the train
is'nt stopped  automatically)

not all charge pump circuits are actually charge pump circuits !!!

the first circuit used was and the name stuck
like "hoover" is used for all vacuum cleaners



                        John





  
« Last Edit: October 19, 2010, 03:52:43 AM by John Swift »

Offline Imagineering

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Re: Sieg X2 CNC conversion
« Reply #39 on: October 19, 2010, 02:22:40 AM »
This is what I've achieved so far, thanks to you guys.

Murray

Offline spuddevans

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Re: Sieg X2 CNC conversion
« Reply #40 on: October 19, 2010, 08:25:56 AM »
I've no idea when I found the charge pump circuits , but this may give you an idea

This is great, thanks very much John :thumbup: :thumbup: I will most likely build one of these circuits to upgrade my very simplified system.


This is what I've achieved so far, thanks to you guys.

Murray

That is a very neat looking box of wires, well done :clap: :clap:



Although I dont have anything to show yet, I have been able to get a little more work done. I have machined the X-axis ballscrew on both ends, and have just finished grinding off some the X-axis ballnut to make it fit into the mill. I will take some pics when I next go out to show what I've done.


Tim
Measure with a micrometer, mark with chalk, cut with an axe  -  MI0TME

Offline John Swift

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Re: Sieg X2 CNC conversion
« Reply #41 on: October 19, 2010, 11:39:39 AM »
Hi Tim and Murray

when I decide to convert a machine to CNC I'l have to build a control box like yours
keep up the good work

its taken some time to find them but I have 2 more circuits for you
I'l have to collect all my cnc info into one folder instead of several across three drives

at the moment my desktop that fitted my 22" wide screen monitor is hard to read
on  the old 14" ,4 x 3 monitor i am using for now -
new backlight driver in the post i am told ,so back to normal in a week or so

the second diagram looks like the power is disconnected from the stepper drivers when a limit switch or stop button is pushed
your not supposed to disconnect the motor or power supply , when the powers on , are you ???

 if thats the case I would connect a large diode across the contacts so the back emf can flow back into the
 power supply capacitor(s)
also if you put a fuse in the supply to the drivers a normally reverse biased diode across the fuse as well

what do you think ?

   John


Offline spuddevans

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Re: Sieg X2 CNC conversion
« Reply #42 on: October 19, 2010, 02:36:32 PM »
your not supposed to disconnect the motor or power supply , when the powers on , are you ???

I cant speak for all stepper drivers, but on mine it is ok to disconnect the PSU at any time (otherwise you could never switch the driver off)

However, I'm pretty sure that most stepper drivers will let the magic blue smoke out if you disconnect the motor from the driver while the power is switched on, so make sure that if you use connectors in your motor wiring try and use locking style connectors in order to cut down on the chance of an accidental disconnection.

Thanks for the circuit diagrams :thumbup: :thumbup:



Tim
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Offline John Swift

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Re: Sieg X2 CNC conversion
« Reply #43 on: October 19, 2010, 03:13:27 PM »
Hi Tim

I'll have to think about that

the diagram shows RLB switching the DC supply to the gecko drivers  and not the mains to the power supply  !!

 I will have to look at the gecko website


found some info on gecko's site
« Last Edit: October 19, 2010, 03:26:52 PM by John Swift »

Offline spuddevans

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Re: Sieg X2 CNC conversion
« Reply #44 on: October 19, 2010, 03:31:49 PM »
the diagram shows RLB switching the DC supply to the gecko drivers  and not the mains to the power supply  !!

I had mine wired like that, relays switching the 45V DC to the stepper drivers, but I had problems with relays sticking from the inrush of current at switchon. So I moved the relay to switch the AC on the input to the power transformer where it had a smaller current to deal with (but with a higher voltage) and that seems to be working better for me.

Of course, you have to make sure that the relay will only switch off the higher voltage just for the stepper drivers, and not the low voltage 5V supplies for the breakout board, otherwise you will not be able to switch the steppers back on.

Tim
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Offline Imagineering

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Re: Sieg X2 CNC conversion
« Reply #45 on: October 19, 2010, 03:53:30 PM »



Of course, you have to make sure that the relay will only switch off the higher voltage just for the stepper drivers, and not the low voltage 5V supplies for the breakout board, otherwise you will not be able to switch the steppers back on.

Tim


Hmm . . . Do you Guys always answer my Questions before I've asked them  ::)

Murray

Offline John Swift

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Re: Sieg X2 CNC conversion
« Reply #46 on: October 19, 2010, 04:13:37 PM »
Hi Murray

I'll take it as a good sign we are all asking the same questions

Offline Imagineering

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Re: Sieg X2 CNC conversion
« Reply #47 on: October 19, 2010, 04:17:01 PM »


What Switch settings would you recommend to start with?

I'll be running 24VDC @ 100Amp PSU.
Stepper Motors are NEMA 24 rated at 4.2Amps 4.5Nm, (650 OzIn).
Running a Sieg SX3 under Mach3.
Steppers are driving the LeadScrews at 2:1 ratio. LeadScrews are the original Acme at present. BallScrews will happen after Financial Recovery  :ddb:

.

Offline spuddevans

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Re: Sieg X2 CNC conversion
« Reply #48 on: October 19, 2010, 04:19:01 PM »
Earlier I promised some pics on what progress I have made, well hear they are.

A couple of days ago I stripped down the mill table to do some preparation work on the table. I had to dig out some of the casting in order to make room for the BallNut for the X-axis to fit in. Not having access to an angle grinder I turned to less gainly methods. I started out by drilling as much away as I could, and then it hit me that I could fix it to my lathe and mill it that way, so I finished the job off in that manner.

I dont have any in-progress pics as it was a fairly dirty job and I value the working status of my camera :D But I do have an "After" pic.






The slot is to allow the body of the Ballnut to sit low enough in the casting. It was after this that another problem raised it's head. After milling out the casting for the ballnut I tried the ballscrew complete with ballnut in-situ to see how it fitted. This photo shows what the problem was.






Ack!!! the top half of the ballnut's flange would not fit under the mill table. Then double Ack!!! the whole of the ballnut was hardened, my hacksaw would just skate over it without hardly marking it. Still not having an angle grinder I turned to my trusty bench grinder. A very dusty hour ( or so ) later I had this;




And this is how it looks in place ( minus the ballscrew as I havent had chance to re-pack the ballnut )




After that I started cutting some Ali for making the mountings for the steppers, but then I was rudely interrupted by the call of the wild (my dinner), no pics as I'm pretty sure that most of you have seen 2 pieces of rough cut ali before :scratch:


Tim
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Offline spuddevans

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Re: Sieg X2 CNC conversion
« Reply #49 on: October 19, 2010, 04:24:38 PM »


What Switch settings would you recommend to start with?

I'll be running 24VDC @ 100Amp PSU.
Stepper Motors are NEMA 24 rated at 4.2Amps 4.5Nm, (650 OzIn).
Running a Sieg SX3 under Mach3.
Steppers are driving the LeadScrews at 2:1 ratio. LeadScrews are the original Acme at present. BallScrews will happen after Financial Recovery  :ddb:

.

I'm not too sure what you mean by switch settings, the dip switches on the Stepper drivers? or switch relay ratings? or switches like I have for individually switching the power to each axis?

I forgot to say earlier, but if you want even bigger versions of any of my pics you can just click on them and it will take you to my photo site where larger versions are available. ( just so you can see my mistakes and cockups in even greater detail )

Tim
« Last Edit: October 19, 2010, 04:26:21 PM by spuddevans »
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