Author Topic: Acetylene  (Read 19146 times)

Offline DMIOM

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Acetylene
« on: October 09, 2010, 06:08:03 PM »
Quote from: NickG
......you really need acetylene to run it and I can't think that a source of small bottles of acetylene is going to be easy or cheap to come by! ........

Quote
I don't know if you need it pressurised - but if not, how about making your own - get some handfuls of Calcium Carbide and a cup of tap water and craft a nice drip feed like a carbide lamp?

Dave

Quote
.....where do you get Calcium Carbide in handfuls?  I can find a source here for a one or two ounce tube, but that's all I've found.  I could use some for a lamp I've got, and I'd like to build an engine that runs off it.  That was the standard way to get acetylene all up through the thirties and forties, for welding.  Info would be highly appreciated. :scratch: mad jack

Have moved this to the (Re)Sources section.

We used carbide lamps for various purposes on the farm and it used to be stocked in agricultural merchants. Nowadays I think one of few disciplines that still uses carbide lamps is the caving fraternity - e.g. here where they have 1kg (2.2 lb) for GBP 8.35 or 3kg (6.6 lb) for GBP 20.75 - I guess you may have similar suppliers in the US?

Dave

Rob.Wilson

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Re: Acetylene
« Reply #1 on: October 10, 2010, 03:18:59 AM »
Hi Dave

Whats your plans for this stuff   :scratch:   ,,,,,to run  some sort of engine   :D

Rob

Offline DMIOM

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Re: Acetylene
« Reply #2 on: October 10, 2010, 03:55:53 AM »
No Rob - tisn't for me - I was just answering the queries that had cropped up in Chris's Stuart 10V thread (I think NickG was talking about atmospheric gas engines) but as they were continuing a wee bit OT I thought I would post the follow up here

Dave
« Last Edit: October 10, 2010, 03:57:52 AM by DMIOM »

Rob.Wilson

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Re: Acetylene
« Reply #3 on: October 10, 2010, 04:00:53 AM »
Cheers Dave

I will have a look ,,,,,,,,,, sounds interesting  :)


Rob 

Offline raynerd

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Re: Acetylene
« Reply #4 on: October 10, 2010, 05:19:39 AM »
I was trying to get some of this calcium carbide for a demo of "underwater fireworks" - acetylene and chlorine. A couple of the "normal" educational chemical suppliers don`t stock it - or at least not listed in their catalogues.  

&feature=related


However, with that link Dave, a good supply of some carbide - a copy of miners lamp would make a great project:

&feature=related

My grandad tells stories that when they were at school they use to bring calcium carbide in their school pocket, throw it in an ink well and drop some water on it. Then they would light the ink well and it would act as a little desk lamp! I`m sure they weren`t meant to be doing that ....but a nice tale!


So who is making the first carbide lamp?

Chris

Rob.Wilson

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Re: Acetylene
« Reply #5 on: October 10, 2010, 05:37:19 AM »
I bet some of the senior/ older  members on here Bluechip, JS had those lights on there horseless carriage and velocipedes    :lol: :lol: :lol:


Rob  :D

Offline Bluechip

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Re: Acetylene
« Reply #6 on: October 10, 2010, 07:26:59 AM »
I bet some of the senior/ older  members on here Bluechip, JS had those lights on there horseless carriage and velocipedes    :lol: :lol: :lol:


Rob  :D

No need to be sarky ... anyway... Acetylene Lamps must be new technology in Geordieland    :smart:

...... when they get there ... not to worry Rob, we'll send someone who can read up there with the instructions for 'em.


BTW your text sizing went to pot. Us owd codgers can't see 30pt. let alone 3pt.

Dave BC
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Offline Bogstandard

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Re: Acetylene
« Reply #7 on: October 10, 2010, 07:44:23 AM »
I used to help my dad clean out his carbide lamps off his bike every weekend. Even in the late 50's, they were still in use because batteries were so expensive and were not too easy to come by.

BTW Rob, one of the casting set engines sold by Bruce engineering runs off acetylene gas.


Bogs
« Last Edit: October 10, 2010, 07:46:28 AM by bogstandard »
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Rob.Wilson

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Re: Acetylene
« Reply #8 on: October 10, 2010, 11:24:03 AM »
I bet some of the senior/ older  members on here Bluechip, JS had those lights on there horseless carriage and velocipedes    :lol: :lol: :lol:


Rob  :D

No need to be sarky ... anyway... Acetylene Lamps must be new technology in Geordieland    :smart:

...... when they get there ... not to worry Rob, we'll send someone who can read up there with the instructions for 'em.






BTW your text sizing went to pot. Us owd codgers can't see 30pt. let alone 3pt.

Dave BC

 :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:  just seeing if your awake Dave ,,,,,,,, i were not much for book learning up ere  :lol: :lol: :lol: :)


Cheers John ,,,, wondered what the acetylene was for  :thumbup:


Rob  :) :D :)

Offline Bluechip

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Re: Acetylene
« Reply #9 on: October 10, 2010, 12:01:05 PM »

Awake? ... Dunno. Hard to tell .. Does it make any difference ?

BTW Running lights were not a legal requirement on Ox carts ...

BC
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Offline doubleboost

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Re: Acetylene
« Reply #10 on: October 15, 2010, 09:24:51 AM »
Hi
I still use carcbde in my caving lamp when the fancy takes me
You can buy it fron most caving shops.
A friend of mine used a acetyline generator for welding up untill 10 years ago
The factory inspector took one look at it and condened it (after he saw a demonstration)
It is now in a musiem
John

Offline AndyB

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Re: Acetylene
« Reply #11 on: October 15, 2010, 03:44:43 PM »
Hi all,

Please, please, please, be bloody careful with storing acetylene under pressure.

Acetylene gas bottles are filled with a sponge-like substance called massing, the acetylene gas is disolved in acetone before putting in the bottle.

The problem with acetylene under pressure is that it can self-react in a vapour space, turning into benzine...with a lot of heat!
The massing is to prevent vapour spaces but if a bottle is dropped it can cause the massing to compress leaving, hey presto, a vapour space.

The Fire Service will dump cylinders into a pond or river for 24 hours if they are involved in an accident.
The A14 at Newmarket (Suffolk) was shut for 24 hours after a van carrying cutting gear caught fire.
Not long after, another major road was shut for 24 hours after a service van was involved in an accident while carrying acetylene. Funny thing, the service van was the Fire Service's!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

The heat generated by the self-reaction is enough to blow the cylinder. :bugeye:
A catalyst for the reaction is ferrous oxide...rust to you and me, another is nickel. No stainless steel or iron containers!!!!  :smart:
Waveney Valley, Suffolk/Norfolk Border

Offline Dean W

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Re: Acetylene
« Reply #12 on: October 15, 2010, 04:14:48 PM »
The heat generated by the self-reaction is enough to blow the cylinder.

Don't you guys have melt out plugs over there?

There's not really any need for all the hand wringing over acetylene.  It's been used safely for ages.
Your car has more heat/explosion potential in it's gas tank.  Use either as they are supposed to
be used, and both are quite safe.
Dean W.

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Offline AndyB

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Re: Acetylene
« Reply #13 on: October 16, 2010, 04:49:45 AM »
Dean,

You are absolutely correct of course. I just wanted to point out the hazards so that those who are not informed can be. Sorry if I am boring but I used to teach this stuff to lorry drivers as part of their Carriage of Dangerous Goods qualification and the horror stories that some of them tell are enough to make a grown man faint...through lack of eduction.

We have all been to scrap yards where their version of Giant Haystacks is slinging acetylene bottles around like tossing a caber. Obviously he doesn't know...

My point is not to sit on an acetylene bottle that has started to warm up because it has turned a bit cold outside  :lol:
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Offline NickG

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Re: Acetylene
« Reply #14 on: October 16, 2010, 09:46:09 AM »
Dave, thanks for the info - and for the video's chris, that would be a cool project .. by the looks of that flame, I think it would run the engine!  :thumbup:
Location: County Durham (North East England)

Offline Dean W

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Re: Acetylene
« Reply #15 on: October 16, 2010, 05:16:48 PM »

My point is not to sit on an acetylene bottle that has started to warm up because it has turned a bit cold outside  :lol:

Oh, well no.  I wouldn't sit on one either.  They're not very comfortable anyway, with those fittings and gauges sticking
out the top.  Bit hard on the bum, and your other naughty bits.
Dean W.

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Offline PTsideshow

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Re: Acetylene
« Reply #16 on: October 16, 2010, 05:41:00 PM »
Once you get the naughty bits out of your bum! :bugeye: you can go use this link to find out things your mum never mentioned about acetylene.


American Miners Carbide Lamps: A Collector's Guide to American Carbide Mine Lighting
 by Gregg Clemmer
The current prices on US Amazon are way over the top  :doh: or I was really lucky  :thumbup:

If you are interested self generation of acetylene and the equipment, for place that it is impossible to exchange cylinders there all kinds of companies on the net producing them google them 206,000 hits
 :coffee:
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Offline Divided he ad

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Re: Acetylene
« Reply #17 on: October 17, 2010, 06:26:47 AM »
I've had an odd project in mind for some time and not the knowledge to produce the desired effect.... This thread has now enlightened me (I know  ::) ) to the possibilities of the projects fruition.


Basically.... once I get my ar*e in gear I'll have a hopefully interesting post to erm... Post!



Already found 3 sites with schematic and dismantling pictures/procedures of these lamps  :thumbup:  (links can be provided if you want them?)




I'll not be the first on here to make one I'm sure.... But mine will hopefully be a little different  :loco:






Ralph.
I know what I know and need to know more!!!

Offline DMIOM

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Re: Acetylene
« Reply #18 on: October 17, 2010, 07:25:53 AM »
I've had an odd project in mind for some time ........Already found 3 sites with schematic and dismantling pictures/procedures of these lamps...... But mine will hopefully be a little different .......

Let me have a guess - you're going to try make a carbide lamp to match the keyring torches in your signature?

Dave   :coffee:

Offline PTsideshow

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Re: Acetylene
« Reply #19 on: October 17, 2010, 09:33:46 AM »
As a carbide caver in my younger days. And having had a number of the lamps both old ones and the more just modern Justrite brand . Don't know if your internet info, mentions the two most important things after having a gastite seal between the carbide chamber/gas compartment. A lot of people would lose the rubber gasket and the gas would leak out and catch on fire when it was on the hard hat/helmet. Since it wasn't under much or any pressure it was a lazy type flame. Interesting to see none the less and the persons reaction, 3 hours in a cave!  :doh:

Have a positive water drip shut off, so it will stop generating gas.

DO NOT use any form of clamping device if you use a hose from the lamp unit to the generating unit if they are separate as a belt generator unit. That way if you generate more gas that you use it can blow the hose off before the pressure gets to an unstable number.

As it is 15psig in the atmosphere, that is the unstable point.

Here in the US they were also favored for nighttime hunting of raccoons. Union carbide was the largest manufacture and seller of the carbide. In rural areas you could find it at almost any hardware store in years past.

Also on an environmental note, the spent carbide after it has generated acetylene gas,turns into a sticky powder while wet. It is considered a toxic/hazardous material. Be careful were and how you dispose of it.

It will kill wild life and pets, and water life if it gets into a stream or pond.

Plus clean it out of your generator section when you recharge the unit. It is a royal pain to remove after it dries and can after time be corrosive to the canisters.

As you have probably found out, googling carbide lamps will bring up a skip load of hits. I have to see if I have any photos of the lamps and the inside working end of them.
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Re: Acetylene
« Reply #20 on: October 17, 2010, 11:26:07 PM »
Quote
Let me have a guess - you're going to try make a carbide lamp to match the keyring torches in your signature?

Nope! Nice try though  :)


Been drawing up crap o cads of the idea for a few hours this evening.... Some parts will be easy, most not. But that's where the challenge come in right?


Glen,

Duly noted. I had plans to do a great deal of research before playing with acetylene gas (or any gas for that matter!) I've been known to make the odd Oxy/acetylene  erm...latex glove (if you don't know, you probably shouldn't!) in my time as a grease monkey. Much power in the wrong (right) quantities!!!  :bugeye: 

Interesting note about the toxic nature of the remnants. I noted in my searchings that the pH value of the mixture is a high alkali of 11.3 and takes around 28 days to reach 6.3 (neutral) if left undisturbed, this time reduced to about 4 days if air is bubbled through it. The remnants are calcium hydroxide. Which becomes neutralised when it reacts with carbon dioxide.
There was as you can imagine a great deal more to the study I read but most of it is a little too in depth for me. I just wanted to know about the material I was looking at using.

Saved it in my favourites for future use. If you're interested? Ref: http://www.springerlink.com/content/hm4j543624kp2857/fulltext.pdf



Going to be a while before I get much made.... I've got a huge tuit list!!!





Ralph.





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Offline PTsideshow

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Re: Acetylene
« Reply #21 on: January 04, 2011, 05:54:10 PM »
Thanks Ralph, they have been on about that kind of things on this side of the pond since the mid 70's matter of fact we had the electric carvers vs, the other at one point. (carbide)

Went to the site this is what I see, I sure it's a great article but not worth 34.00 USD  :lol:
Toxicity of carbide waste to heterotrophic microorganisms in caves

Kathleen Hoey Lavoie
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Will get some picture of the lamps and parts now that the holidays are past  ::)
"The internet just a figment, of my imagination!' 
 
 There are only 3 things I can't do!"
Raise the Dead!
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and I'm working on the first two!
glen

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Re: Acetylene
« Reply #22 on: January 04, 2011, 06:19:47 PM »
I'll not be paying either!

Still haven't forgotten about this, I just need time and talent to develop my idea....  Sooner or later It'll happen  ::)



All piccys are good Glen  :thumbup:






Ralph.
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Offline PTsideshow

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Re: Acetylene
« Reply #23 on: January 04, 2011, 07:25:17 PM »
 :headbang:
"The internet just a figment, of my imagination!' 
 
 There are only 3 things I can't do!"
Raise the Dead!
        Walk on water!
                 Fix a broken heart!
and I'm working on the first two!
glen

MrFluffy

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Re: Acetylene
« Reply #24 on: January 05, 2011, 04:11:13 AM »
Theres usually a acetylene generator for sale in the small ad's near here :-
http://www.leboncoin.fr/materiel_professionnel/162554023.htm?ca=14_s

I had wondered about getting one instead of renting cylinders for my very limited gas usage , but Id also wondered what the possibility of blowing myself up properly was  :zap: