Author Topic: Knurling tool E.Riley stile  (Read 35441 times)

Offline Xldevil

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Knurling tool E.Riley stile
« on: October 24, 2010, 06:06:22 AM »
Hello.
Again I ordered something at
Hemingway Kits
Very soon,I´ve got another good drawing,all necessary metal and hardware.
The knurling wheels were to order separate.

Building the tool was a good exercise to improve my skills and I can recommend this building for beginners.

















The tool is solid as a tank and knurling mild steel is an easy task.
I still have to try brass and aluminum.

Ralph

Offline kwackers

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Re: Knurling tool E.Riley stile
« Reply #1 on: October 24, 2010, 06:19:55 AM »
Excellent!

Funnily enough that was the very first tool I ever made (although I made it because part way through making another tool I needed something knurling...)

Offline j45on

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Re: Knurling tool E.Riley stile
« Reply #2 on: October 24, 2010, 09:36:14 AM »
Great job :thumbup:
I might have to add this to my list of things to make
Jason

Offline madjackghengis

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Re: Knurling tool E.Riley stile
« Reply #3 on: October 25, 2010, 12:08:53 PM »
Hi Ralph, I just needed a knurling tool, ordered one from Grizzly, got it, found it wouldn't work on mild steel over about 3/8ths in diameter without putting vicegrips on the straight knurled knob, and haven't used it since.  It's a bit like the one you just built, but smaller, spindley, and doesn't really have any excuse for existing.  The finished picture of yours says it all, and looks to be a real work that can do a real job.  It's because of people like you my to do list keeps getting longer, and more related to tooling than jobs.  You've made a great looking tool, and it should serve you well for years to come, I hope you put your name and date on it somewhere, so someone can be amazed fifty years from now.  Top notch workmanship :headbang: :bow: nice piece of inspiration.  mad jack

Offline wongster

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Re: Knurling tool E.Riley stile
« Reply #4 on: October 25, 2010, 11:31:28 PM »
Can this be use on sherline lathe? Swing over bed is 3" and swing over carriage is 1.75".

Regards,
Wong

Offline Xldevil

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Re: Knurling tool E.Riley stile
« Reply #5 on: October 26, 2010, 08:19:16 AM »
Hello.
Thanks a lot for your plaudit. :beer:
You´re so kind.
This will give me the impetus for future projects.
Now I´m going to build steam engine, 2 cylinder type.
Cheers,Ralph
« Last Edit: October 26, 2010, 03:34:34 PM by Xldevil »

Offline Bernd

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Re: Knurling tool E.Riley stile
« Reply #6 on: October 26, 2010, 09:27:57 AM »
Can this be use on sherline lathe? Swing over bed is 3" and swing over carriage is 1.75".

Regards,
Wong

Wong,

Since I own a Sherline I'll give you my opinion (worth approx. 2¢, not adjusted for inflation) I don't think it will work. Looks to be to big if you look at the pictures. Check Sherline website and see what they offer and then go from there.

Bernd
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Offline andyf

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Re: Knurling tool E.Riley stile
« Reply #7 on: October 26, 2010, 09:52:53 AM »
Can this be use on sherline lathe? Swing over bed is 3" and swing over carriage is 1.75".

Regards,
Wong

Hi Wong,
Sherline make a knurling tool: http://www.sherline.com/3004inst.htm , but it looks awkward to use because the two  bolts which clamp the knurls into the work have to be tightened evenly.

There are plans for a knurling tool for the similar size Taig lathe here: http://www.cartertools.com/knurl.html

Andy
Sale, Cheshire
I've cut the end off it twice, but it's still too short

Offline wongster

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Re: Knurling tool E.Riley stile
« Reply #8 on: October 26, 2010, 11:04:53 AM »
Bernd / Andy,

Thanks for your comments.

I bought the Sherline's knurling tool some months back.  Used it a couple of times.  May not know how to use it properly.

Not knowing how to size up the materials and having problem finding suitable materials, the solutions offered by Hemingwaykits seems attractive. I can learn the approximate size of materials to get and follow the plans to make something useful.

Just had a bad experience buying raw materials from the shop I used to buy from (the other one closed down earlier this month...). I'm not going back there again.

I'll try the plan Andy provided the link to.  How do I know what spring to buy?

Sorry Ralph.  Hijacked your thread.

Regards,
Wong

Offline raynerd

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Re: Knurling tool E.Riley stile
« Reply #9 on: October 26, 2010, 02:56:01 PM »
I don`t know how I missed this Ralph so sorry for the delay but excellent job on the build. I have seen quite a bit of the Hemmingway tooling and the kits look excellent. I would like a Knurling tool so this could be a build in the near future.
Excellent work!  :bow:

Offline jcs0001

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Re: Knurling tool E.Riley stile
« Reply #10 on: October 26, 2010, 10:24:07 PM »
Ralph:

Very nice job on the knurler.  I made two a while back from a design in one of Guy Lautard's books.  There is a photo here (down the page a bit):

http://madmodder.net/index.php?topic=3640.0

It works pretty well on mild steel and even better on aluminum and brass.  The knurled handle seems to provide enough leverage to get a decent knurl although in steel it takes a good grip to get enough "squeeze" to form the knurl.  I may rebuild the knob to something more similar to yours.

I like the design of yours better however.  Just seems more substantial and maybe a bit easier to build.

John.


Offline loumartin

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Re: Knurling tool E.Riley stile
« Reply #11 on: August 14, 2012, 01:45:55 PM »
Hello from Canon City, CO, USA....

Do you think the Hemingway Knurling tool kit can be made using only a mini lathe with a milling attachment?  I'm a self-trained novice with decent mechanical knowledge and experience. 

Lou Martin - Bamboo fly rod maker

Offline saw

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Re: Knurling tool E.Riley stile
« Reply #12 on: August 14, 2012, 04:03:47 PM »
Nice work.  :thumbup: :thumbup:
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Offline JohnC

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Re: Knurling tool E.Riley stile
« Reply #13 on: August 14, 2012, 04:20:26 PM »
 :beer:
Hi xildevil,

When I saw the first picture of your work   (on the carpet) I thought it was a CAD rendering it looked so good!! Good work and keep it up.
John
John C
York, UK

Rob.Wilson

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Re: Knurling tool E.Riley stile
« Reply #14 on: August 14, 2012, 04:42:02 PM »
Hello from Canon City, CO, USA....

Do you think the Hemingway Knurling tool kit can be made using only a mini lathe with a milling attachment?  I'm a self-trained novice with decent mechanical knowledge and experience. 

Lou Martin - Bamboo fly rod maker

Hi and Welcome  :wave: Lou

I cant see why not , It is just about possible to build the Knurl with hand tools only  :dremel:

Rob

Offline Fergus OMore

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Re: Knurling tool E.Riley stile
« Reply #15 on: August 14, 2012, 04:57:14 PM »
I'm going to say 'No' because the Sherline is probably 3 times less rigid that Mr Riley's Myford which is a  lathe which can swing 7".

There is nothing wrong with the design but it was designed for much bigger things.

Somewhere there is a lot of information on knurling and I reckon that the chances of damaging the headstock bearings is high.

For those who are that bit younger than me(  perhaps the whole lot of you?) I recall that Martin Cleeve actually built a outrigger bearing to take the strain imposed on his Glacier Bearings of his Myford ML7.

So I might be wrong-- but I doubt it

Norm
« Last Edit: August 14, 2012, 06:07:10 PM by Fergus OMore »

Offline PeterE

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Re: Knurling tool E.Riley stile
« Reply #16 on: August 15, 2012, 05:06:51 PM »
Hi Ralph,

That knurling tool looks very nice, well done indeed!

Then when it comes to use this type on small machines like the Sherline or the Unimat/MJ-189 they work well but should not be too large. I have the illustrated one which has a capacity of up to 25 to 30 mm diameter:
http://www.chronos.ltd.uk/acatalog/info_391201.html
It has been used for around ten years now and it works really well on both my MJ-189 and my C3 mini lathe. It does not have a very large knob so the pressure must be increased as the knurl forms.

After ten years I have now noticed that since my tool does not have the support sides, the upper and lower arms tend to separate in the lathe axial direction forced by the angle of the knurling wheels. Becuase of this I am going to make a new one also from Hemingway but the larger sensitive one with the feed lever, scroll down one item.
http://www.hemingwaykits.com/acatalog/Knurling_Tool.html

BR

/Peter
Always at the edge of my abilities, too often beyond ;-)

Offline Fergus OMore

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Re: Knurling tool E.Riley stile
« Reply #17 on: August 15, 2012, 05:55:24 PM »
I've also got a MJ189 ,Peter, but really this has been regarded as something for non ferrous metals and situations where the bigger lathe is otherwise occupied.

I did an odd bit of rule of thumb engineering.  I measured the diameter of my knurls against the bearing diameter of the main bearings of the MJ189.
So on the same reasoning,  could I use milling cutters of the same diameter? 

After all, there is not a lot of difference in the cutting action of both.

What say you, please?

Cheers

Norman

Offline PeterE

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Re: Knurling tool E.Riley stile
« Reply #18 on: August 15, 2012, 06:26:59 PM »
Hi Norman,

Perhaps my experience is due to not being completely knowledgeable in such matters and thus having taken the risk to overstrain my machine unknowingly, but the scissor knurling tool does not put radial strain on the machine as it floats radially, it only increases the load on the transmission and motor in contrary to the "press sideways to knurl-tools". I have at least not found that it affects the headstock bearings. One must be careful though to take the time needed and not rush the work.

The comparison with the milling cutter is interesting, have not thought about that, but what about a fly cutter which acts on a larger diameter than the exemplified 25 mm knurl, at least my Unimat flycutter is able to span 50 mm diameter. Wouldn´t that strain the little machine more as the single cutting edge whirls around a diameter and thus generates a rotating radial load as well?

I think that it works because it is not possible to create so high loads that the bearings get damaged, the round belt (rope) transmission will bail out long before and act as protection. The headstock bearings are 17 mm inner diameter which is quite a large diameter axle that may handle substantial radial loads, I think far larger than possible to generate on the machine, but I may well be very wrong ...

Well this is my 2cents ..

BR

/Peter
Always at the edge of my abilities, too often beyond ;-)

Offline andyf

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Re: Knurling tool E.Riley stile
« Reply #19 on: August 15, 2012, 06:54:43 PM »
I think Lou was referring to a Sieg mini-lathe (7" swing, 3.5" centre height, similar to a Myford) rather than a Sherline or Unimat. The Hemingway kit was probably designed to fit a Myford, so should be the right size for his lathe. As Rob Wilson says, it looks as though it could be made with hand tools, though a drill press would make life easier.

Andy
Sale, Cheshire
I've cut the end off it twice, but it's still too short

Offline Fergus OMore

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Re: Knurling tool E.Riley stile
« Reply #20 on: August 16, 2012, 04:00:09 AM »
I think that Mr Riley would have a Myford or perhaps a Boxford so perhaps the Sieg might be OK.

I confess that I am one of these of the old school who leans heavily on an earlier brigade of people like Euclid. Pythagoras, a dash of Da Vinci and a more 'with it' set like Maudsley and Holzapffel.  Perhaps people have never heard of them and as for proving theorems- no, not really.

So don't mind me as some of you come into a lot of expensive surprises.

Have fun

Norman

Offline billmac

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Re: Knurling tool E.Riley stile
« Reply #21 on: August 16, 2012, 07:44:15 AM »
You should have no problem building that knurler with just a mini lathe. I made the slightly more complicated Hemingway knurler with just an old Myford ML7. All the rest of the work shaping the arms and plates etc was done with files and a hacksaw. It works very well. See below.



Rob.Wilson

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Re: Knurling tool E.Riley stile
« Reply #22 on: August 16, 2012, 01:07:39 PM »
 :clap: :clap: :clap: Bill and Ralph  ,Two cracking examples of well finished Knurls  :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:


I used to knurl on a Hobbymat MD65 , with Scissor   knurl holders , cant see what the problem is  :scratch:


Rob 

Offline loumartin

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Re: Knurling tool E.Riley stile
« Reply #23 on: August 22, 2012, 09:45:39 AM »
  Hello again from Colorado,

Thanks for all the feedback and encouragement.  I just have to decide which kit to get, and source some additional knurls (looking for something more decorative).  Might be a while, but I'll try to post some pics when it's done.

going fishing now, Lou

Offline andyf

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Re: Knurling tool E.Riley stile
« Reply #24 on: August 22, 2012, 10:25:02 AM »
Looks like you are after "rope knurls" and suchlike, Lou. I think they may be hard to find nowadays, but you could try making your own:
http://www.frets.com/HomeShopTech/Projects/RopeKnurl/ropeknurl.html

Andy
Sale, Cheshire
I've cut the end off it twice, but it's still too short

Offline PekkaNF

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Re: Knurling tool E.Riley stile
« Reply #25 on: August 22, 2012, 02:01:43 PM »
Looks like you are after "rope knurls" and suchlike, Lou. I think they may be hard to find nowadays, but you could try making your own:
http://www.frets.com/HomeShopTech/Projects/RopeKnurl/ropeknurl.html

Andy

I did long time ago that kind of ropeknurl for a friend. I used rotary file (cylindrical burr) instead at 45 decree angle to form notches, luckily I have an universal head on my milling machine.

The end product worked like a charm and produced parts for cane fly rods.

This herringbone was harder to produce, I tried to make a scissor type that could be tiltted and would cut both knurls at the same time....I had few form tools to cut brass blank to correct shape and then I tried to cut those herringbone patterns....hard to get everything just right.