Author Topic: Rider Ericsson Hot Air Engine  (Read 41496 times)

Offline AndyB

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Rider Ericsson Hot Air Engine
« on: November 07, 2010, 11:30:15 AM »
So I have finally made a start.

The castings arrived from Myers in the US.

Seems like good quality stuff!

Got the book too; 'Steam and Sterling, Engines You Can Build' edited by William C Fitt.

Ha! The builder in the book obviously has bigger machines than mine. :lol:

Followed his set up for machining the base...oops! :scratch:

Hmmm, spent a good few hours trying all different ways to get over the machining.
Could not mount it on the vertical slide for flycutting :bang: :bang:
Eventually, I ended up following his example, but spent ages trying to make sure it all turned. :scratch:

Had to file the corner of the flywheel bracket so that it did not catch the ways, that was to make sure that the other end cleared the bed.  :clap:

I had 30thou clearance! If you look carefully you can just see light between the casting and the end of the ways! :clap: :ddb:

Not good at taking pictures, so I didn't bother showing the finished base. Gone to filing the legs because time is getting short tonight.

Got to bore it next. That will take some figuring out...as will figuring out how to put pictures in line with the text :scratch: :lol:
Waveney Valley, Suffolk/Norfolk Border

Offline Brass_Machine

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Re: Rider Ericsson Hot Air Engine
« Reply #1 on: November 07, 2010, 11:35:10 AM »
Wow... that's some clearance :)

Good job on the setup. Keep the build log going :)

Eric
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Rob.Wilson

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Re: Rider Ericsson Hot Air Engine
« Reply #2 on: November 07, 2010, 11:46:47 AM »
Hi Andy  :thumbup:

Good to see you have made a start  :clap: :clap:  ,,,,is a good size engine in it  :D



Rob

Offline kwackers

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Re: Rider Ericsson Hot Air Engine
« Reply #3 on: November 07, 2010, 12:16:56 PM »
That's loads of clearance. I've done stuff with much less than that - and got the tool marks to prove it!  :lol:

Offline AndyB

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Re: Rider Ericsson Hot Air Engine
« Reply #4 on: November 07, 2010, 01:06:32 PM »
Thank you chaps :thumbup:

Sorry, this log will take a while as I don't get much workshop time, usually just a few hours at the weekends.

Have also got to make some tools to make the parts.

I didn't dare show the topslide and tool angles that I had to use to reach the ends of the base as well as the centre in case I got shouted at by the professionals :lol:
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Offline Bernd

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Re: Rider Ericsson Hot Air Engine
« Reply #5 on: November 07, 2010, 05:07:14 PM »
Got to bore it next. That will take some figuring out...as will figuring out how to put pictures in line with the text :scratch: :lol:


Andy,

Your going to ned a place to store the photo's such as "photobucket", You'll need an account. I use my own web site to host the pictures. Also the pictures should be sized to about 600 X 800 pixels. These are then enbeded into the text with the "img" comand located in the upper left of the reply area.

Also check the forum. I believe Ralph did a tutorial or write up on how to do all that. Can't remember exactly where that is located right now.

Bernd
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Offline Brass_Machine

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Re: Rider Ericsson Hot Air Engine
« Reply #6 on: November 07, 2010, 07:16:50 PM »
Got to bore it next. That will take some figuring out...as will figuring out how to put pictures in line with the text :scratch: :lol:


Andy,

Your going to ned a place to store the photo's such as "photobucket", You'll need an account. I use my own web site to host the pictures. Also the pictures should be sized to about 600 X 800 pixels. These are then enbeded into the text with the "img" comand located in the upper left of the reply area.

Also check the forum. I believe Ralph did a tutorial or write up on how to do all that. Can't remember exactly where that is located right now.

Bernd

Here ya go... Thread on posting pictures is HERE
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Offline Stilldrillin

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Re: Rider Ericsson Hot Air Engine
« Reply #7 on: November 08, 2010, 12:09:11 PM »
Hi Andy.
I love those engines! All those moving levers etc They look alive when running.......  :D

Good luck with your clearances. Looking forward to further progress.  :thumbup:

David D

David.

Still drilling holes... Sometimes, in the right place!

Still modifying bits of metal... Occasionally, making an improvement!

Offline AndyB

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Re: Rider Ericsson Hot Air Engine
« Reply #8 on: November 09, 2010, 03:14:01 PM »
Great stuff!
Thank you very much. :nrocks:

It looks as if I will clamp the base to the vertical slide with straps then bore with an indexable boring head mounted in the headstock. Will have to back it with a plank of wood so that I don't bore through the vertical slide! :ddb:

Off to the Federation of Harley Davidson Clubs of Europe President's Meeting this weekend so the next installment will be late I'm afraid.

Andy
Waveney Valley, Suffolk/Norfolk Border

Offline cidrontmg

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Re: Rider Ericsson Hot Air Engine
« Reply #9 on: November 09, 2010, 07:46:01 PM »
Lo AndyB,
I once had a bit less clearance than you had, the workpiece was about 2 mm too long for the gap.  :bang:
I took an angle grinder, and ground 2 mm off the bedways of my Myford S7...  :loco:
Didn“t feel too good about it, but wtf... Worse things happen all the time... I haven“t noticed any deleterious effects about that open throat surgery anyhow.
 :wave:
Olli
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Offline madjackghengis

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Re: Rider Ericsson Hot Air Engine
« Reply #10 on: November 10, 2010, 08:18:37 AM »
Hi Andy, I've got to say it's good to see someone working on something that's right on the limit of their machine, and having a lathe alone to do the machine work.  I learned more about ways around apparently insurmountable obstacles when I was working with no mill, and just a "t" slot cross slide, also machined on my lathe, than all the easy work when I later had first a mill/drill, and now a full size mill.
     As Cidron says, in stating he ground two millimeters off the bed of his lathe, if you can't make it fit the work you do, it must not be yours.  It's better to deliberately grind off clearance, than to accidentally break out clearance, and maybe break the work piece as well.  I'm looking forward to seeing your engine run, I always wanted to build one of those, way too many engines, far too little time in this world.  I think that is a great choice, and you will really enjoy it running, I'm sure. :bugeye: :thumbup: mad jack

Offline NickG

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Re: Rider Ericsson Hot Air Engine
« Reply #11 on: November 16, 2010, 03:38:32 PM »
Hi Andy,

I hadn't seen this until now. Will definitely be watching your project unfold, they look a most interesting engine to watch with the unusual linkage. I was looking on the internet last night for suppliers of castings for Rider Ericsson, are there none in the UK? Yours look like quite nice castings? How much did they set you back if you don't mind me asking?

Nick
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Rob.Wilson

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Re: Rider Ericsson Hot Air Engine
« Reply #12 on: November 17, 2010, 11:29:40 AM »
Hi Andy,

 suppliers of castings for Rider Ericsson, are there none in the UK? Yours look like quite nice castings? How much did they set you back if you don't mind me asking?

Nick

Camden steam do  a set   http://www.camdenmin.co.uk/media/RELeaflet.pdf

Rob

Offline NickG

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Re: Rider Ericsson Hot Air Engine
« Reply #13 on: November 18, 2010, 03:46:02 AM »
Thanks Rob,

Well that's one potential project struck off the list - there's no way I could afford that sort of money for the forseeable future!

 :offtopic:The price of castings have gone through the roof in the last 10-15 years! about 12 years ago I was dead set on building a sweet pea 5" gauge locomotive and I bought a professional boiler for £570 (I'm told that would be about double now) I also managed to buy some unofficial castings for £90 for the full set. Just the weight of the stuff would be worth more than that now! I shudder to think how much a full set from Blackgates is.

Still, it's a great looking engine and can't wait to see Andy's project progress.

Nick
Location: County Durham (North East England)

Offline AndyB

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Re: Rider Ericsson Hot Air Engine
« Reply #14 on: November 18, 2010, 04:58:10 PM »
Hi Nick,

I got mine from Myers Engine Works in the USA, $305 including postage, less than half Camden's price.
It's a nice set and they even include the steel and copper pipes for the cylinder liner, displacer piston and smoke stack.
The firebox is a casting too even though the plans show you how to fabricate one from sheet.

I put the enquiry in a posting on the Cork Board, titled Myers Engine Works. http://madmodder.net/index.php?topic=3539.msg38049#msg38049

Mine is the quarter scale, 2in bore model. Clarence also does 1in and 3in bore models.
http://www.myersengines.com/engines/rider-ericsson.htm

Andy

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Offline NickG

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Re: Rider Ericsson Hot Air Engine
« Reply #15 on: November 19, 2010, 03:33:29 AM »
Hi Andy,

Ah right, that sounds much more reasonable and sounds like a good kit too. I saw a different kit from the USA the other day and thought it was a better buy than kits in the UK, however was wondering if I would get stung with some sort of import tax or duty?

Will have a look at the website, thanks for the info.

Nick
Location: County Durham (North East England)

Offline AndyB

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Re: Rider Ericsson Hot Air Engine
« Reply #16 on: November 19, 2010, 02:53:34 PM »
Hi Nick,

£42.18 VAT, including £8 handling charge.
Have a look at my post and it is all explained.

Andy
Waveney Valley, Suffolk/Norfolk Border

Offline NickG

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Re: Rider Ericsson Hot Air Engine
« Reply #17 on: November 19, 2010, 03:16:01 PM »
Hi Andy,

Thanks, yep I sent that before I read the posts!

Still a good buy then. Unfortunately it seems the little version is out of stock. Will save that website - it's not off the list any more!

Nick
Location: County Durham (North East England)

Offline AndyB

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Re: Rider Ericsson Hot Air Engine
« Reply #18 on: January 06, 2011, 03:43:30 PM »
Hi all,


Happy new year!

Thank you for your interest so far.

I am sorry about the lack of recorded progress.
I work for an animal feed company and the run up to Chrimbo is our busiest time, that, coupled with the drop in temperature (by heck it was cold in my workshop, even my 3 - in - 1 oil froze!) means that I did not venture forth to the shed of earthly delights.

I have been doing a lot of hand work but photos of hacksawing and filing might be a bit boring! I have been marking out which I can do indoors...all run of the mill, boring stuff! I will get back out there soon to photograph the...boring stuff! :lol:

Andy
Waveney Valley, Suffolk/Norfolk Border

Offline AndyB

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Re: Rider Ericsson Hot Air Engine
« Reply #19 on: February 13, 2011, 11:49:14 AM »
Oh well, at long last I have a bit more to offer.

Of course, my plan to strap the base to my vertical slide was as much use as an ashtray on a motorbike...the base is the same width! Back to the drawing board.  :bang:

As you can see, I had to mount the base at a 45 degree angle on the narrow vertical slide mounted on a rotating base. Its funny, you get all these bits when you buy old lathes but it takes some working out how to use them!







Finally sorted that.

Next trick...the cylinder wouldn't stay clamped in the 3 jaw chuck. Tried holding it inside and out. Kept coming loose.

Hmmm

Went back to the library. Oh look, about a million years ago someone thought of putting paper between metal to increase the grip!  :doh:

Yes, I know, you all use the trick regularly...well I forgot! :bang:

Mounted the cylinder in a 3 jaw and oh look, it works  :ddb:



Next comes boring the cylinder. How to mount it? 4 jaw...easy! Oops! 5 inch chuck doesn't have enough space between the jaws for the table. Ok, 6 inch chuck. I sat it togther on the bench.





Looks good...er... no. The jaws close on the table by about 1/32 of an inch before centralling.

Ok, try the other way... spent hours looking for a piece of soft metal a the same thickness as the jaw step. Finally found an old copper electrical strap.





I have put the chuck onto the lathe but ran out of time to set it up properly.

I see now why it takes some people 25 years to build a locomotive or traction engine!!! :poke:

Sorry about the slow progress people, I will try to follow what my old school reports complained of...'could do better'!! :lol:
« Last Edit: February 13, 2011, 11:53:14 AM by AndyB »
Waveney Valley, Suffolk/Norfolk Border

Offline Jasonb

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Re: Rider Ericsson Hot Air Engine
« Reply #20 on: February 13, 2011, 12:58:26 PM »
I'd be tempted to put it back in the 3 jaw and turn the edge of the flange, that way when you reverse it in the 4 jaw you can use a fixed steady on the edge of the flange which will be a lot safer and should also give a better finish as it will be a more rigid setup.

Other option would be to fix the casting to the cross slide and use a between ctrs bar as its a long overhang using a chuck.

Keep up the good work.

J

Offline Bogstandard

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Re: Rider Ericsson Hot Air Engine
« Reply #21 on: February 13, 2011, 01:10:31 PM »
Nice setups Andy.

Take it gently and everything should be just fine. I gather that you don't have a faceplate for your lathe, that would allow, coupled with your angle plate, safer and more rigid setups.

Just remember that you only have one go at it before more expense drags it's a**e into the equation.

I am glad you have realised that working with castings is not the same as nice, neat and easy barstock. Sometimes it seems like you will never be able to hold it safely and rigid enough, but where there is a will there is a way, something always pops up.

Don't ignore good advice that is being given by other people, they are not trying to take over your post or be smart a**ses. They have most probably been thru it all before and can let you know about the pitfalls and successes, and it could save you a great deal of time, effort and maybe money in the long run.

Machining castings is totally different to normal run of the mill stuff.

Looking good.


Bogs
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Offline Stilldrillin

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Re: Rider Ericsson Hot Air Engine
« Reply #22 on: February 14, 2011, 04:01:45 AM »
Andy.
The more I see, and admire, your set up struggles.......  :clap:
The more I am pleased, my R/E came to me as an orphan. With all the large awkward parts done.... I hope!  :thumbup:




Work will commence, one day. When other commitments are sorted.....  ::)


Love the rotating base, positioning fixture thing, you used.
Great work...... Keep it coming on.....  :D

David D
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Still drilling holes... Sometimes, in the right place!

Still modifying bits of metal... Occasionally, making an improvement!

Offline AndyB

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Re: Rider Ericsson Hot Air Engine
« Reply #23 on: February 14, 2011, 02:38:12 PM »
Thank you for the kind words chaps. :nrocks:

Thanks Bogs, I am always ready to take advice...that's one of the reasons I am putting up the project log and showing my difficulties! I have got a faceplate but can't think how to mount the cylinder on it...any and all suggestions, both polite and humourous welcome! Unless...I make up a collar to go round the narrow towards the base and tie it to the faceplate with rods and bottlescrews, with blocks to adjust and keep it steady against the faceplate.

Thank you for the fixed steady tip Jason. Unfortunately my original Drummond fixed steady is 2.25" across the throat and the finished size of the cylinder end is 2.276". Original fixed steadies are rare as rocking horse...er...stuff, I bought a whole lathe just to get one! I dont want to cut it about. Hmm...The old boys used to use bits of wood quite a lot. I've got a little pamphlet from the '20s showing some of the things made on a treadle Roundbed (9 cylinder radial engine etc). It has some weird (?) setups there, might give me some ideas. Thanks again.

Hopefully future progress will be a little more swift...but don't hold your breath for the next installment, it might be terminal! :lol:
Waveney Valley, Suffolk/Norfolk Border

Offline Jasonb

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Re: Rider Ericsson Hot Air Engine
« Reply #24 on: February 14, 2011, 03:57:30 PM »
Its easier when you have a flat surface to go against the angleplate but something can usually be cobbled together.

J