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Author Topic: Heron's Aeolipile  (Read 82573 times)

Offline Divided he ad

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Heron's Aeolipile
« on: October 19, 2008, 06:53:02 PM »
Well today I started to do a little towards a project I've wanted to do for ages.
Now I know it is an engine of sorts but it is much more a toy in my book.... So it's going here!

Just a couple of photo's to explain what I am going to try to achive.

First photo it my new (old, but new to me) Toggle press... This should help me create the hemispheres that I will need to solder together to make the ball.
There are 3 Brit' coins on it for scale 1,2 and 5 pence pieces also to help you the surface table in the background is 18" square!!
And yes it was bloody heavy to lift 3.5' off the ground onto the bench un-assisted.



And then the blank cut, (on my new saw) faced off and tapped m14x1.5 ready for the arbour.





I know you didn't need to see the blank that I cut....  But it makes me happy to look at what the saw can do  ;D

This blank is going to be made into a punch to be mounted on the press and then I need to make the die and I should be somewhere near making a hollow sphere?!  :)


I know that there are others out there who like these things so I will do my best to log it properly.


Ralph.

« Last Edit: October 26, 2008, 01:09:09 AM by Divided he ad »
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Offline Bernd

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Re: Heron's Aeolipile
« Reply #1 on: October 20, 2008, 09:44:37 AM »
I'm liking it Ralph.  :clap:  :thumbup:

I'll bet that the ball turner is going to be involed with this some how?  :D

Bernd
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Offline Rog02

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Re: Heron's Aeolipile
« Reply #2 on: October 20, 2008, 10:43:42 AM »
For our Yank members:  The tupence coin (2 pence coin on the right in Ralph's post) measures 1.018" diameter (yeah, I just measured one). 

Ralph?

Are you going to make the dies to punch holes in the sphere?  Just trying to get my head about the toggle press function.
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Offline Brass_Machine

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Re: Heron's Aeolipile
« Reply #3 on: October 20, 2008, 04:57:42 PM »
Oooooh!   :clap: :clap: bout time!

Will watch this like a hawk.

Eric
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Offline Divided he ad

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Re: Heron's Aeolipile
« Reply #4 on: October 20, 2008, 08:17:17 PM »
Bernd,
the ball turner will make it's apperance shortly  :thumbup:

Rog',
the punch will be the 2" hemispere made from the large blank pictured above and the copper sheet will be annealed and laid onto the die..... Then pressed in one ( I think??) thump of the press...Thus creating half of the final ball!?  Remember this is experimental.... I've never tried this before!?!  ;D

Eric,
I told you I was going to have a go at this.... Don't expect rapid results.... I'm still getting my head around all this new machinery (lathe and mill included  ;) ) Keep them eye's peeled..... (do you use this odd phrase over there? ... means keep an eye out.... Again odd phrase??!??  :o )



Ralph.
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Offline Brass_Machine

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Re: Heron's Aeolipile
« Reply #5 on: October 20, 2008, 09:06:46 PM »
Quote from: Divided he ad on October 20, 2008, 08:17:17 PM

Eric,
I told you I was going to have a go at this.... Don't expect rapid results.... I'm still getting my head around all this new machinery (lathe and mill included  ;) ) Keep them eye's peeled..... (do you use this odd phrase over there? ... means keep an eye out.... Again odd phrase??!??  :o )


Ralph.

Never doubted you for a minute. Yup, that phrase was used quite a bit in the New England states when I lived up that way.


Eric
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Offline Divided he ad

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Re: Heron's Aeolipile
« Reply #6 on: October 22, 2008, 07:26:00 PM »
Well here we go....

The first stage, I made the punch head tonight.

First the original punch from the press was re-designed   ;)


Then made into the first of many threaded arbours.




Then the fun bit.....  Set ball turner to maximum captain!!! (well very near the safe max' anyway)



And .... There you have it.... I filmed this... I'll edit it and post it somewhere... this was a hardened bar... sure was tough to machine!!!


and fitted on the press...




 it is a 48.8mm dia this alows for 18 gauge plate to be pressed giving a 50mm external measurement of the final sphere.... If I got my calcs right!!!??

Next make a die.... That should be interesting!! 

Does anyone know how to figure the disc size required for the job? ... If it can't be easily mathmaticallty worked out I'll just trial and error it!!!


Ralph.
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Offline Brass_Machine

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Re: Heron's Aeolipile
« Reply #7 on: October 23, 2008, 10:12:05 AM »
very cool. I don't know how to calculate the disc size required, so no help there from me. Sorry.

But on the other hand, what a great start you got going there!

Eric
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Offline Bernd

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Re: Heron's Aeolipile
« Reply #8 on: October 23, 2008, 12:35:53 PM »
I'd say trial and error method.  ;D

Cut the blank way bigger than the die. Form part. While in the die you can sribe a line around the formed part then trim. Hope that isn't to confusing the way I wrote it.  :-\

Bernd
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Offline Divided he ad

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Re: Heron's Aeolipile
« Reply #9 on: October 23, 2008, 01:08:10 PM »
Eric, You have no idea how big the smile was when it all worked to plan  :thumbup:  ;D

Bernd.... Isn't that the Heath Robinson aproach?!  I was thinking of ever decreasing discs until I find the size that will do it perfectly.... Just thinking about it i could have made it with a small shoulder on it so that a flat rim was left for soldering.... Oh well I'll figure something out ;)

A few sacrificial drinks cans will bite the bullet first.... there's no way I'm wasting the copper!!!



Just a thought as I sit here writhing this... A drink can whth a series of scribed circles on it at set intervals and see which one is closest.... then work the fine settings out from that.... That'll do for a start...

I started to write this 10 min's ago... A short burst of sleep and all hell breaks loose in the semi dormant brain!!!  :D


I'll post my efforts on a die hopefully next week.


Ralph.


« Last Edit: October 26, 2008, 01:04:20 AM by Divided he ad »
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Offline Bernd

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Re: Heron's Aeolipile
« Reply #10 on: October 27, 2008, 06:32:23 PM »
Quote from: Divided he ad on October 23, 2008, 01:08:10 PM

A few sacrificial drinks cans will bite the bullet first.... there's no way I'm wasting the copper!!!

Make sure all the beer is out of it first though.  ::)


Quote
Just a thought as I sit here writhing this... A drink can whth a series of scribed circles on it at set intervals and see which one is closest.... then work the fine settings out from that.... That'll do for a start...

Great idea Ralph. I was thinking about the same thing.  :thumbup:

Quote

I'll post my efforts on a die hopefully next week.


Ralph.


Don't know if I can wait that long.  ;D Oh Ok.

Bernd
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Offline Divided he ad

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Re: Heron's Aeolipile
« Reply #11 on: October 27, 2008, 08:19:13 PM »
Hi Bernd,

Oddly I don't drink the beers... So will have to rely on my alcohol loving friends to supply me with the sacrifices!!

I'm afraid it will be friday before I will hit the shop!!! Too many people to see, and not enough time!


Well it is late here now so am going to finish viewing the site and retire for the evening  :)


Ralph.
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Offline Divided he ad

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Re: Heron's Aeolipile
« Reply #12 on: November 15, 2008, 07:58:05 PM »
Well progress on this has been a little bit 'very slow!'

Here is the next little installment....

After a bit of a chin wag and Crap o Cad (R) session with John (Boggie) We came up with a bit of a plan to get the press to do as much work on the ball as possible... The first part of that was the collar.... Tonights part of the project.

Firstly, get a large garage door weight (2' x 3"dia) and cut off approx 16MM (5/8").... Then face it off and drill a big hole in the centre  ;D


Then bore the hell out of it!  :D


Once that is done clean up the outside of the ring and test fit it...


Drill/tap 3 holes at 120 degree spacing.


Then fit it onto the punch and see how it all looks....


That was it for tonight. It is not totally finished yet, I am going to cut a relief for the grubscrews to purchase. Thenonce it is proved to work... I'll probably solder it on (weld if I need to)

More fairly soon... I am now released from other projects so it as all onto this little bit of fun  ;D



Ralph.
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Offline Divided he ad

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Re: Heron's Aeolipile
« Reply #13 on: November 17, 2008, 03:37:26 AM »
Moved from the mini ball turner thread.



Just to aid finding it, since I just tried the search and it took a page of two to find this...... http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=ozcZ65bqUF0

Mine is not going to be an exact copy of this... I havn't got the skill, time or CNC to produce such a framework. But I'm sure you'll agree that a ball is most certainly required!?

Well watch out for the updates in the Aeolipile post I have running, and we will see how my plan works!.... Did I say plan?! There is nothing on paper except for Boggies Crap o Cad (R) renderings.... Well that's all I need at the mo'  :thumbup:

Maybe I'll scratch out some thing?.... Then totally change it as the music leads me (Enter smiley conductor here!  ;D )




Ralph.

...


Also moved to here....
Quote
Ralph,

That looks like a much easier design, with the nozzles coming from a steam dome. A few advantages there.

More fluid for longer runs.

Much easier punch and die design.

A single ball race.

John
 

I figured it to be a little easier too John... It's not that I am not up for a challenge I just like the look of this one  ;D

Hopefully it will move a little faster now ;D



Ralph.
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Offline CrewCab

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Re: Heron's Aeolipile
« Reply #14 on: November 17, 2008, 02:13:55 PM »
Blimey Ralph, you certainly like a challenge ............ I'm having trouble pronouncing "Heron's Aeolipile" neer mind attempting to make one  ::)  ............  I wish you well, as I'm sure you know and I'm looking forward to the build ............. however; first question, once you fabricate the two halves of the copper "ping pong" ball how are you going to set about holding the bits in place and soldering them   :smart:  ............. take plenty pictures please big feller  8)

CC
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Offline Brass_Machine

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Re: Heron's Aeolipile
« Reply #15 on: November 17, 2008, 02:28:59 PM »
Ralph and I seem to be of one mind on quite a few things. I have been thinking about building one of these for the past 2 years or so. More so after I saw engineman's version and hearing Ralph talk about them. I am going to take a different way on making the ball. I am going to try to spin it. One of these days I will get the tools together to do it.

Eric
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Offline CrewCab

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Re: Heron's Aeolipile
« Reply #16 on: November 17, 2008, 02:33:46 PM »
I think it's a brilliant project Eric, I'm really looking forward to seeing the progress, and to be fair ....... collectively .......... I hope we can help overcome any problems .......... this should be a blast  8)

CC
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Offline Brass_Machine

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Re: Heron's Aeolipile
« Reply #17 on: November 17, 2008, 02:43:57 PM »
I think this will have to be a collective project (on mine anyway). With all the smarts  :smart: we have here, anything is possible.

Ralph OFC is our trailblazer! I can't wait to see where his goes. The artistic talent that man has...

 :mmr:

Eric
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Offline Divided he ad

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Re: Heron's Aeolipile
« Reply #18 on: November 17, 2008, 08:05:31 PM »
CC.... There are many ways to hold your balls, I will only post a picture of the final and prefered method  :thumbup:

Spinning might yet be on the cards for a kettle if that idea comes back into mind.... Maybe as a show piece?.... We're talking very later here! (maybe after you show us how it is done Eric?  :scratch:


Collective problems ehh....?   :borg: .... Sorted!   ;D

Quote
Ralph OFC is our trailblazer! I can't wait to see where his goes. The artistic talent that man has...

Now that's just putting me on the spot to get it right isn't it!!   :-[:whip:   


Suppose I'd better get my butt into gear then ehh?? .... Thursday is possibl;y the next opportunity!!.... We shall see :)




Ralph.
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Offline Brass_Machine

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Re: Heron's Aeolipile
« Reply #19 on: November 17, 2008, 08:52:20 PM »
Quote from: Divided he ad on November 17, 2008, 08:05:31 PM

Collective problems ehh....?   :borg: .... Sorted!   ;D


 :borg: resistance is futile  :borg:

Eric
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Offline Powder Keg

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Re: Heron's Aeolipile
« Reply #20 on: November 17, 2008, 08:53:45 PM »
This is turning out very nice Ralph! I can't wait to see it finished. I made one once out of a brass toilet bowl float;o)

Wes
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Offline Divided he ad

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Re: Heron's Aeolipile
« Reply #21 on: November 19, 2008, 03:01:18 AM »
Thank's Wes, I've seen tube vid's of the float converted types.... They can spin pretty well too!!  Hopefully mine will look like it doesn't belong in the toilet?  :D



Reistance is indeed futile.... You will all be drawn to every post on MadModder by the collective  :borg:  :clap:  ;D





Ralph.
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Offline cedge

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Re: Heron's Aeolipile
« Reply #22 on: November 20, 2008, 11:47:57 PM »
Ralph
I've got several of Karsten's early turbines on hand if you want a bit more detail on how the bearings are arranged. His is a fascinating story of a lad raised behind the iron curtain who meets capitalism. I know it well, as I was there to see almost all of it. Sadly, the young fellow has a few personal demons he needs to deal with these days.

Steve
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Offline Divided he ad

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Re: Heron's Aeolipile
« Reply #23 on: November 21, 2008, 11:31:15 AM »
Hi Steve, and welcome to another gent' of the small machining world  :dremel:

I've seen your models, been to your site a few times  :thumbup:

I have viewed all (I think?) videos out there on you tube of these little Karsten wonders and as much as I would like to know all about the workings, I think I want to work as much out for myself as possible (all part of the fun, you understand that?!  ;D )

I've had some help from John (Which was needed and greatly appreciated) But I really want to let my mind do a little wandering on this one.... See what I come up with?

I'm not liking the bit of the story about the demons though.... Shame for someone so talented.



Are you making anything interesting at the moment then??

Feel free to tell us what you've been upto  :thumbup: (we need info!!!  ;D )


Ralph.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2008, 11:43:39 AM by Divided he ad »
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Offline cedge

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Re: Heron's Aeolipile
« Reply #24 on: November 21, 2008, 11:41:15 AM »
Ralph
Remember me?....LOL. I'm the guy who builds em without drawings. I completely understand the desire to work through the idea.

To my surprise, Karsten did get at least part of out latest order to us this morning. I'm not sure what specific issues he's dealing with, but I certainly do worry about him.

I'm not doing much in the shop, at the moment. Cold weather has begun to shorten my stay out there. I'll probably spend the cold months indoors, lining up projects for this spring.

Thanks for the warm welcome
Steve
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