Author Topic: Another "Next Project"  (Read 6234 times)

Offline Rog02

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Another "Next Project"
« on: October 22, 2008, 12:33:27 AM »
There I was, perusing the local Craigslist ads and there it was, "Large Belt Drive Grinder". The ad went on to say the seller was including 2 extra "New" grinder wheels but no motor. I call the number more out of curiosity than any real need for such a thing. The owner says "Sure, I still have it and you can come see it at 4 o'clock."

I arrived at the address and the owner met me in the drive and led me to the basement where the grinder arbor was setting on the bench along with the extra wheels as promised. Turns out to be a brand spanking new 8", cast iron, ball bearing grinder arbor. I mean BRAND NEW, as in it had never been bolted down. "It was here when I bought the house. I'll will never use it."


The only identification on the arbor is the cast in "CB-8" inside the frame casting.


The grinder rests are sturdy, yet fully adjustable cast iron.


Another view of the grinder rest. Besides the casting numbers the only other markings is the "Ball Bearing" decal, which upon close inspection of the logo appears to have been a Timken decal.


The wheel guards are mounted on sliding adjusters as well.


I told the PO I would take the arbor and handed over his $25 asking price without haggling. "There is a box of other stuff there if you are interested."

I pulled the box out and rummaged through, finding a vintage Fairmont planishing hammer, an NOS Heller sheet metal bumping hammer and a Craftsman adjustable file frame with what appears to be a new Vixen file. I laid the treasures on the bench and asked "How much you think this is worth?"

"$25?" the PO replied. "Whatever they are, I am sure I will never use them."

I again pulled out the cash and paid the asking price, trying to conceal the glee of acquiring two of the most sought after tools on every metalshapers "Quest List".

New "Monkey Wards" Grinding wheels.


Aluminum Oxide 8"X1 1/2"X1" Medium/Fine and Medium/Course


Sheetmetal Hammers and Adjustable File Frame


What is an Adjustable File Frame? It allows you to curve the file to fit a crown.



Now to design and build a pedestal for this thing.  It should be far superior to the small grinders I have been using for lathe bit sharpening. 
Roger
I'm OLD, I'm TIRED, and I'M GRUMPY!

Offline Divided he ad

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Re: Another "Next Project"
« Reply #1 on: October 22, 2008, 04:08:35 AM »
Sometimes Rog' you just get lucky  ;D



Nice find... I'll look out for the pedistal/motor ass'y post. (assuming it is going to appear on this thread?)


Ralph.
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Offline Darren

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Can't decide which grinder to purchase...???
« Reply #2 on: January 09, 2009, 08:02:10 AM »
It could be worse, seems there was more choice in 1920.....

http://toolemera.com/catpdf/luther1920CAT.pdf


Some interesting designs considering they didn't have wide availability of electric motors
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Offline Rog02

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Re: Another "Next Project"
« Reply #3 on: January 09, 2009, 10:22:58 AM »
It could be worse, seems there was more choice in 1920.....

http://toolemera.com/catpdf/luther1920CAT.pdf


Some interesting designs considering they didn't have wide availability of electric motors

Considering that electricity was not widely available in the rural areas of the US until the late 1930s these types of shop equipment were common.  Even into the 1960s electrical equipment was somewhat limited by the grid.  When my uncle moved onto the "home place", the first thing he had to do was upgrade the electric service to a 200 amp service from the 60 amp panel wouldn't carry his household appliances let alone run the milk cooler and milking machines at the same time.

Those hand cranked grinders are still available today.  At the time of that catalog those were considered a "kitchen appliance" as knives required sharpening on a frequent basis, due to the quality of steel alloys in common use at the time.  Larger models were common to blacksmith shops and peddlers carts.  I purchased one of the 3" models sometime ago at a garage sale and cleaned it up for display on my mantel.  It works as well today as it did when it was made in the 19teens or 1920s when it was made.

I have childhood memories of cranking my grandfathers grinder in his little repair shed. 

My parents would occasionally park me at my grand parents for the weekend and Granddad would take me to the milk barn to milk first thing in the morning and after breakfast ( I can still smell the fresh baked scratch biscuits and sausage gravy) he would take me to the workshop to repair the stuff that had broken during the previous week.  My jobs were to crank the centrifugal blower on his forge, crank the grinder, haul water for the slack bucket from the well, and make myself useful however I was told.  That was their idea of "babysitting" that today would probably get them arrested for something like "child endangerment".  Could you imagine a "soccer mom" letting her 5 year old wander around a barnyard with a herd of cows and handling white hot steel?
 
Roger
I'm OLD, I'm TIRED, and I'M GRUMPY!

bogstandard

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Re: Another "Next Project"
« Reply #4 on: January 09, 2009, 11:08:35 AM »
Rog,

That grinder unit reminds me of my early years in the 50's. We used to have a chap come around about every three months on a bicycle, and he had one of those rigged on the back of his bike.
He had a frame that lifted the back wheel off the ground, and sitting on a back to front seat on the cross bar, then he used to pedal backwards. The drive for the grinder came from a v-grooved ring mounted on the side of the back wheel rim. He used to pedal away and sharpen all the knives, scissors, hedgecutters etc, that the housewives used to bring out to him.

We called your Craftsman adjustable files a 'Surform' adjustable file in the UK and when I worked for Rolls Royce making their custom cars, those Surforms were standard issue to the white metal line for dressing down the lead body filling to get nice sharp edges on the body pressings and subsequent build up of lead. About 100lbs of lead was used on each main steel body to enable nice sharp edges on everything. They could be adjusted to the curved form of the body panels. The doors, bonnets and boot (trunk) lids were made of ali, and were dressed down out of the thick raw material they were pressed out of, to match the sharp edges of the bodies.

I still have all my panel beating hammers somewhere, from my R-R days, all the sharp corners were rounded off and polished all over to a chrome like finish, so any slight 'slips' didn't cause any further damage.

Darren,

My very first 'lathe' was made out of one of those hand grinders, with a drill chuck in place of the stone. I hand 'graved' everything to shape, and that was what got me into model engineering at a very early age.

John

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Re: Another "Next Project"
« Reply #5 on: January 09, 2009, 05:32:11 PM »
Does anyone else find SHUR-ON Wash Tub Legs faintly
ludicrous in the Luther cataloque? :scratch:
While I'm here do any other Aussies think that  :dremel: looks like Little Johny? :lol:
BR

Offline Bernd

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Re: Another "Next Project"
« Reply #6 on: January 09, 2009, 06:04:23 PM »
Interesting catalog. :thumbup:

It is a bit unusual to see that in a grinding catalog. Maybe they thought you needed a big tub of water to cool off your part after grinding and would need it at wasit height.  :D

One thing I noticed was all the hand powered or foot powered grinding implaments.

Can you imagine making kid's today us a foot powered charger so they can use their cell phone. :lol:

I saw one grinder in there where you cranked with one hand and held the blade in the other two.  :scratch:  :D

Bernd
You can't fix "STUPID".

Offline Rog02

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Re: Another "Next Project"
« Reply #7 on: January 10, 2009, 06:29:27 PM »
Rog,

That grinder unit reminds me of my early years in the 50's. We used to have a chap come around about every three months on a bicycle, and he had one of those rigged on the back of his bike.
He had a frame that lifted the back wheel off the ground, and sitting on a back to front seat on the cross bar, then he used to pedal backwards. The drive for the grinder came from a v-grooved ring mounted on the side of the back wheel rim. He used to pedal away and sharpen all the knives, scissors, hedgecutters etc, that the housewives used to bring out to him.

I can easily envision the sharpener on a bicycle.  That was one of the things that surprised me when I first started staying in Scotland.  The number of door to door tradesmen Is unheard of here in the states.  In the small town I grew up in there was a "gentleman" that sharpened handsaws and anything else you needed to put an edge on but you had to take it over to his shed and leave it with him.  One learned quickly that it wasn't too wise to go over before mid morning or after 4:00 in the afternoon as he was either hung over or tippling the bottle before and after those hours.  His house was on my newspaper route and he liked me cause I always waved to him.  One Saturday morning when I was collecting for the paper he took me in his little shed and showed me how to sharpen and reset a handsaw.  He taught me to sharpen scissors when my mother sent me over with a pair of her dress making shears and how to put a decent edge on a "hunting knife". 

Quote
We called your Craftsman adjustable files a 'Surform' adjustable file in the UK and when I worked for Rolls Royce making their custom cars, those Surforms were standard issue to the white metal line for dressing down the lead body filling to get nice sharp edges on the body pressings and subsequent build up of lead. About 100lbs of lead was used on each main steel body to enable nice sharp edges on everything. They could be adjusted to the curved form of the body panels. The doors, bonnets and boot (trunk) lids were made of ali, and were dressed down out of the thick raw material they were pressed out of, to match the sharp edges of the bodies.

I still have all my panel beating hammers somewhere, from my R-R days, all the sharp corners were rounded off and polished all over to a chrome like finish, so any slight 'slips' didn't cause any further damage.

Another example of the US and UK being "Two world powers, separated by a common language."  A "surform" here is a wood rasp device used to knock down plastic body filler just prior to it kicking to full hard. Actually, if you asked for a "Surform Tool" you would probably get blank stares in most shops, but if you asked if anyone had a "cheese grater", there would be acknowledgment from all present.  Generically, we refer to those as Vixen files or sheet metal files.

That particular file handle is set up with a flexible metal file, which varies from a lead file in that the metal files have a shallow gullet as compared to the deeper gullet in a lead file.  A metal file will cut lead but loads up rather quickly and cleaning them is a pain, a lead file will work for metal but dulls quickly, hence the color coding on the file handles in my shop.  Oh yeah, better mention the distinguishing difference between a flexible file and a rigid file,  The rigid file is shorter and the the screw holes are approximately 10.25" center to center.
One of my little sideline businesses is resharpening metal and lead files.  I have a couple of sheet metal tool suppliers that refer request to me and it has been a profitable little venture over the years.

AHH, yes the fine art of laying lead!  I learned as a young man in the body shop.  Lead was expensive and only used as a last resort to level a surface and on the occasional body seam.  I was taught to "hammer, dolly, shrink, and file" which I still do to this day.  I do sheet metal work primarily, as it is rapidly becoming a lost trade, though it is making somewhat of a comeback with the recent increase in interest in "custom" cars and motorcycles.  Todays "metal morons" flood everything with "bondo".  Real body lead is kind of hard to find and getting more expensive everyday.  "Sheep Tallow" is impossible to find over here and you about have to make you own paddles as the imported ones sold by the "expert supply" stores are made from some sort of weird Asian wood that doesn't take tallow (or ATF) well at all.  I'm sure I am on every government "bomb builders watch list" for sourcing acid and zinc to make my own tinning fluid and flux. 

Want to find yourself ventilated with buckshot?  Just try using one of my metal hammers to drive a nail or beat on something.   :hammer:

If I emptied out all the drawers and ratholes around my place I probably have 150 sheet metal hammers of various profile, weight, and manufacture.  There is probably another 200 dollies, spoons and slappers around as well.  There are many duplications in the collection but I never pass up a chance to snag a hammer regardless of condition.  I have even become kind of "the go to guy" when it comes to resanding and refacing badly abused hammers and dollies.
I keep a buffer set up just for the express purpose of keeping those surfaces polished to mirror finish. 

The mirror finish does more than just preventing unwanted indentations on you work piece.  If you work both ferrous and non ferrous metals with the same tool the smooth surface minimizes any cross contamination of the surfaces.  You haven't had a head ache until the paint lifts off one of your panels and the cause is traced to a bit of steel hammered into the aluminum :wack: or your fine polished copper sculpture develops a rust streak instead of the green copper patina you told the client to expect.  KEEP your hammers and dollies polished!

Does anyone else find SHUR-ON Wash Tub Legs faintly ludicrous in the Luther cataloque? :scratch:

Actually, no I see nothing unusual about that.  Many companies manufactured and sold products similar to those leg brackets as a sideline business.  Frequently, such products were a collaboration with an employee that came up with the idea and turned over to the business for a consideration of the profits.  I am sure that since the grinders and other tools were sold to hardware stores which would be the same outlet for the wash stand legs that the sales force was already in place.

Quote
While I'm here do any other Aussies think that  :dremel: looks like Little Johny? :lol:
BR

"Someone, splain that to me."  :scratch:

Interesting catalog. :thumbup:

Can you imagine making kid's today us a foot powered charger so they can use their cell phone. :lol:

I saw one grinder in there where you cranked with one hand and held the blade in the other two.  :scratch:  :D

Bernd

I saw something on TV a while back where a guy had rigged a television to a stationery bicycle powered generator and made his kids peddle to watch their favorite shows.  At least they were developing strong bodies while rotting their brains :zap:

And one should always remember that these were popular when kids used to look forward to spending time helping Dad.
Roger
I'm OLD, I'm TIRED, and I'M GRUMPY!

bogstandard

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Re: Another "Next Project"
« Reply #8 on: January 11, 2009, 03:52:00 AM »
Rog,

Quote
dollies, spoons and slappers

Those names bring back fond memories, but don't know if I retained enough skills to still do the job to a satisfactory level. I only got to do the panelbeating on first paint, when say I fitted a door or bonnet, I would ensure that the panels were aligned enough to get the car thru initial inspection after we had custom built it, and to remove basic dents and dings that had happened during build. The professionals would take over after that, to prepare it for final paint.
These are the ones that I used to help build, and most probably completed about 100 of them. Everything had to be hand fitted (the doors could be 1/2" longer on one side to the other), hence the term, 'hand built' (make it fit).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolls-Royce_Camargue

Just a little story about an R-R panelbeater.

There was a panelbeater who worked there in my time. He was physically challenged, in that he was about 4ft 6ins tall and and I should think in his mid twenties. His body was contorted out of shape to a stage where he could hardly walk. But boy could he make those tools sing.

Wherever R-R were doing shows, he was there in the background with his box of tools. He was the only one they would trust to work on a finished show car. He could remove dents from anywhere (caused by glamour models climbing over the cars, and photographers kit falling on the panels) and not a blemish on the finished paintwork.

I reckon he must have doubled his take home pay, because during lunch hour, you could see him out on the employee car park removing dents and dings from normal cars.

I haven't seen him about for a few years, so I suppose he might have succumbed to his disabilities.

John

Baldrocker

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Re: Another "Next Project"
« Reply #9 on: February 01, 2009, 02:05:03 AM »
Quote
"Someone, splain that to me."
Rog02
Sorry bout delayed response.
That smiley :dremel: to me bears a startling resemblance to
the ex Prime Minister of Australia John Howard
BR