swarf removal vacuum

[picclock]

Hi
What the best thing for removing swarf (which seems to get everywhere despite my best efforts) .  Are any of the portable vacuum cleaners any good ? 

I'm thinking of something that will get into all those pesky slots and crevices, without the bulk and awkwardness of a standard hoover hose.

picclock

[Bogstandard]

Do you have an airline in your shop, if so, they are very easy to make.

If you do, I will knock up a sketch for you.


Bogs

[Bluechip]

I used to use a small hand model, Moulinex IIRC.

Not much good, not enough suck. Plus any stringy turnings got jammed up in it.

Now got an el-cheapo Erbauer from Screwfix. Used it about three years. Refuses to expire, despite my efforts. Paper bags are extortionate.

Replaced the crevice tool with a narrower one one from CPC. About £1 ish. Gets in the slots on my miller.

Dave BC

[BillTodd]

Anyone tried one of these ash-can add ons?

http://cpc.farnell.com/pro-user/bb-ac400/ash-can-filter/dp/SI15489?Ntt=si15489

[andyf]

I use a cylinder vc so old that it's now hard to finf the paper bags to fit, so I recovered the cardboard end from a used one and stapled/glued the sleeve from an old shirt to it, with a wire tie on the other end for emptying purposes. I also made it a really narrow crevice tool which is great for cleaning out T slots.

Be careful with ashcans, Dave BC. I've seen a cheap one collapse under suction the first time it was used to clean out a fire grate!

Andy

[Bluechip]

I use a cylinder vc so old that it's now hard to finf the paper bags to fit, so I recovered the cardboard end from a used one and stapled/glued the sleeve from an old shirt to it, with a wire tie on the other end for emptying purposes. I also made it a really narrow crevice tool which is great for cleaning out T slots.

Be careful with ashcans, Dave BC. I've seen a cheap one collapse under suction the first time it was used to clean out a fire grate!

Andy

I'm not into ash-cans Andy.

Although if they have any amusing anti-social antics, I could be interested  

Did you mean Bill ??


Dave BC

[andyf]

I'm not into ash-cans Andy.

Although if they have any amusing anti-social antics, I could be interested   

Did you mean Bill ??

Ooops - sorry, Dave and Bill. My cleaner was distracting me with demands for consumables. At the rate she gets through them, I think she's drinking Flash Liquid and Toilet Duck.

Andy

[BillTodd]

Be careful with ashcans, [insert name]. I've seen a cheap one collapse under suction the first time it was used to clean out a fire grate!

Ah that wouldn't be good (especially if full of ash). However, I may give the CPC one a go, as CPC will replace or refund for pretty much any reason (I've been an account holder for many years).

Bill

[picclock]

@ Bogs

I can have. My mill is in a shed down the garden, but built on the side is a 'kennel' which houses a decent compressor and vacuum pump. Those services are piped up to an extension on the garage with other equipment, but its fairly easy for me to access them (drill hole in side of shed, connect pipe).

I am a bit reluctant to use compressed air to blow swarf about to hoover up though because of other stuff I have in the shed.  

The vacuum pump is not suitable for use as it is low flow high-ish vacuum (and i daren't contaminate it).

@ bluechip

That doesn't sound too bad. It's the table slots, gutters and crinkly rubber bits that are a pain. I swear the swarf jumps out of them the moment you want to mount something flat on the table  

I will investigate.

picclock

 

[Bogstandard]

Pic,

This doesn't blow swarf about.

See picture below.

This was the only small type of pick up device we were allowed to use on aircraft (no electric motor arcing).

Just make the tube the right size to go into you t-slots, and make it so that you can just fit it onto the end of you blowgun. It should pick up swarf that is small enough to get into the slots.


Bogs

[fixit]

I have a smaller unit as Bog's described  made by SnapOn  works well  but in my shop i use a small bagless 1300wat  it eats swaff-small spanners/pens /bolt's    it's good

[Bluechip]

They're good they are Bogs.  

Some kitchen hob extracters work like that. Clean air through the fan, then airflow entrains all the oil vapour through a filter and out.

No gobbed up fans, 'cos the filters aren't 100%, and some grease gets on the blades anyway. Messy camels to deal with ..  

Crevice tool, needs to be adapted for Erbauer, bit of tube in my case. P2900 if you have the CPC catalogue. Or can be bothered to look at the online version ...

http://cpc.farnell.com/_/dusctbk/crevice-tool-32mm-240mm-long-blk/dp/WG18997?Ntt=wg18997

Dave BC

[picclock]

@ Bogs

Many thanks for the drawing. I've got a machine that generates its own vacuum like that with a venturi. Never occurred to me to try that method  . I will do some experiments in the garage and see how it turns out. The machine I have doesn't produce a lot of vacuum airflow, but then again it doesn't use a lot of air.

@ bluechip

I like the idea of a machine that sucks a lot  . Is yours the 20 litre one ?

Was looking at the Argos site and they do a bagless (save a fortune ??) Zanussi one for £50. It has 324 Air watts (had to google for a definition).

Bit concerned about using a std vaccum cleaner as most of my swarf will have lubricant attached.

Best Regards

picclock



 

[AdeV]

Interesting device.... would it still be effective if one replaced the collection bag with a cyclone separator? I'd been looking at using a vacuum cleaner to drive a cyclone, but I could probably generate more suction (& cyclone power) using an air line...

[Bogstandard]

I have just replaced my 20 year old normal shop vac with one of these.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/SEALEY-PC200SD-VACUUM-CLEANER-IND-Wet-Dry-20LT-230V-/300495989763?pt=UK_Vacuum_Cleaners&hash=item45f6f4ec03

It sucked Bandit's tail right off, just left him with a stump.


Bogs

[Bluechip]

Hi Picclock

Yes, it is the 20L version. It's not the most grunty, but it is enough. It seems reliable enough, I've sucked up swarf with oil on it many times.

I got it 'cos it was fairly cheap.The bags are a ridiculous price IMO. The one preceeding it was an Aquavac (40 ? ) which was better. That had a cartridge filter. You just knocked the crap off it and away again. But they don't seem to make any similar model now. Had that one for about 12 yrs, survived all manner of abuse, but I got it in the end.  

I wouldn't really recommend the Erbauer, the bags are smallish, and need to be replaced often. Next one will have a filter cartridge. But they seem to be robust machines.

EDIT  Just looked at the link Bogs posted ... looks like it would be very suitable .. have to remember that one 

Dave BC

 

[John Hill]

Thanks for the airhoover sketch Bogs,  I have considered making something but I thought I would need to design a venturi!

Poor Bandit, I think there are a lot of those vacuum cleaners around here or at least there are certainly a lot of stumpy dogs!

[Bogstandard]

Nothing that fancy John, just a piece of fairly longish copper plumbing pipe and something around 3/16" to 1/14" for the air. Get the air pipe a fair way down from the pickup end, say 6", and just solder the two together. You don't have to have a bag, just a length of flex pipe going to the dustbin would do.

Dave, this wet/dry one has a shake out filter, and a float to stop the suck when it gets full of water. I used my old one for sucking out all the slushy mud out of the bottom of a sump drain in the garden, it worked great.

This one will be even better because it is more robust.


John

[Bluechip]

Might just get one of those Vaccys  John.

I'm not buying any more of these ...

http://www.screwfix.com/prods/69225/Cleaning/Cleaning-Machinery-Accs/Dust-Bags-20Ltr

£1.90 a pop. Not as if they are huge capacity ... when I got the machine I bought 20 IIRC, ie: 2 x 10 off, no discount now it seems .. think circa 60p each. Got 2 left ..

Will do a AndyF and lash up some sort of filter with an off-cut of blanket or the like. Then wait for the smoke & flame bit.

They don't live forever anyway ..

Dave BC

[Jonny]

Bought one of those from Machine Mart around 3 years ago on VAT free day, not the smallest one they do next one up £43.
Ok for general cleaning, picks up most swarf if small. Picks up and syphons liquids well, while it worked, only works as a dry vac now.
Actually bought it for the bead blaster and cant rember last time i used it. Its outside in the snow.

Me i prefer the old fashioned fork or shovel, no vac would pick any of this lot up. http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL15/728921/1252422/393696139.jpg

[andyf]

Might just get one of those Vaccys  John.

I'm not buying any more of these ...

http://www.screwfix.com/prods/69225/Cleaning/Cleaning-Machinery-Accs/Dust-Bags-20Ltr

£1.90 a pop. Not as if they are huge capacity ... when I got the machine I bought 20 IIRC, ie: 2 x 10 off, no discount now it seems .. think circa 60p each. Got 2 left ..

Will do a AndyF and lash up some sort of filter with an off-cut of blanket or the like. Then wait for the smoke & flame bit.

They don't live forever anyway ..

Dave BC

Before getting creative with the shirt sleeve, I reused the paper bags until they wore out. They were originally closed off at the blind end by being folded over and glued. I cut off the fold, emptied the bag through the opening, refolded and used a length of plastic slide-on spine from the stationers to hold the fold together. The spine could be slipped off for future emptyings. Each bag usually lasted for 3 or 4 fills.
Cheapskate? Who, me? 

Andy

[Bluechip]

Good scheme Andy.

Unfortunately, the cardboard bit that goes over the input to the can usually fails when I pull it off . So I have to sling the things anyway ...

Dave BC

[Bogstandard]

I forgot to mention Dave, the filter in my Sealey is paper, except for the wet one which is sponge,

But the damp swarf and crap is fed into the bottom of the stainless tub, the small bag is in fact the motor filter, to stop dust and stuff eventually getting to it.

I had the same system on my old one, and that lasted for years and never needed replacing.


John

[Bluechip]

Hi John

The one on my Aquavac was the same-ish. Just like an air-filter on a car. Some 6" dia. x 8". Had a sort of plastic 'Camlock' on the base. Quarter turn, it came off.

Wallop the metal base of the thing, all the gunge dropped out of the folds, back in and away ... Same filter lasted for years. I think I only replaced it twice. Once because it was gobbed up with some damp plaster I sucked up.  Yeah, I know. It sets don't it ??? 

Dave BC

[picclock]

Managed to get hold of an ancient Vax (really good price - free). One of the plastic tubes was so bad that if you folded it it split open, but the other one is just about OK, and a swap of various fittings got a working solution. Its 900W and its only mediocre in the suction department but its just about good enough until I can acquire something better.

Most surprising thing was how much better I felt when it was all cleared up, and it only took a few mins. Its quite nice looking at a swarf free mill. I never new cleaning could be theraputic - I think its been getting on my nerves that I've been unable to clean up properly.

Thanks for the info

Best Regards

picclock

[Jonny]

If you would like some therapy free of charge you are most welcome round here.

[Bogstandard]

Unfortunately, I very rarely get to use my shop vac.

The wife and daughter cleaned out my shop just over a week ago. It made me sweat just watching them.

The only problem, sometimes a little bit of what you are making goes missing and you have to remake it.


Bogs

[Jonny]

Both of mine have been known to do similar when they want something.
I see £ signs

All the same the areas i actually work in i need to find tools quickly as in go straight to them without moving my feet.
Even the bigger mill i only have to turn round 180 degrees to use.

Brush and compressor come in handy also annoys the mut.
Still have to wait another week for the dustman couldnt get it all in last week, green bin this week.

Price of these gone up a bit, gave £43 vat free day.
http://www.machinemart.co.uk/shop/product/details/cvac20ss-wet-dry-vacuum-cleaner
Never used and would spend a lot more time hoovering than creating swarf.

[wheeltapper]

Hi
I've been following this thread and I'm dissapointed in your lack of ingenuity.
I bought this here, I bought that there 

MAKE ONE 

This is mine.
the body is (was) a pickled gherkin barrel


the power head came from an industrial vac (I think), I got it at a boot sale for 50 pence.


and inside is a car air filter to stop crap getting in the motor.



loads of suck.

Roy

[MrFluffy]

Ive got a old vax wet dry hoover, used in wet mode. Its not the best suction in the world but I also have a swarf hoover gun which fits on the end of the pipe and my airline, which creates a stronger venturi and could splinters out your hand when the two are combined. In fact its one of these :-
http://www.royalprod.com/product.cfm?catID=14
It wasn't a lot of money as I managed to snag one off ebay usa when the dollar/pound was good (for europe!) and sure beats splinters from stainless cleanups. I use my mill with full suds, so the chips are often very soggy and heavy with it so a bit of a challenge for a normal shop hoover...
I blew out the motor in the vax and it had swarf in it, so Ive got a ash can seperator and Im going to experiment with it inline when I get set back up. I already know the can is up to it as we used it a few times with our numatic henry to clean the wood furnace out, until my wife decided to get one with a motor on it already to make it easier.

You could probably make the gun fairly easy as it is just a venturi with a trigger valve for the air input, but for me time is more precious than buying the odd thing in premade...