Author Topic: My ideal solution  (Read 19168 times)

bogstandard

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My ideal solution
« on: November 10, 2008, 06:39:54 PM »
For a while now, I have had a dream, where I can cross machine between the lathe and the RT on the mill. With only a few seconds setup time between the two.

When these little items became available a while back.




These bits are designed to allow a Myford spindle nose to be fitted to an RT that has a 2MT thru hole.


My mind started turning over like an old clockwork motor (with added rust).

During my recent, and still carrying on workshop rebuild, I have been knocking together my 'ideal' system.


Before anyone does it

 :worthless:

I will be in the shop for an hour or so tomorrow, so I will take a few piccies of my system.

John


Offline Brass_Machine

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Re: My ideal solution
« Reply #1 on: November 11, 2008, 01:08:02 PM »
I am curious to see where this goes. I am having a hard time visualizing it. Sounds promising though.

Eric
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bogstandard

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Re: My ideal solution
« Reply #2 on: November 11, 2008, 01:14:19 PM »
Having dragged my almost lifeless body for two miles thru thick snow and ice, I reached my shop, but had forgotten my pictaker, so I had to do it all over again. If it hadn't been for Bandit and his brandy barrel around his neck, I would have got there sooner, crawling while inebriated is not a pretty site. I just hope you lot appreciate what I go thru for the sake of one of these posts.

As I said in my last post, the little myford converters make everything possible for me.

So here we go with the system.

First off, wack a 5MT to 2MT adapter up the spout of the lathe, quickly followed by the converter.
If using this setup on a lathe, you put a piece of threaded rod from the back of the converter, thru the spindle and put a washer and locknut on the back. This stops it falling out of the spindle half way thru a machining job.




Here are the other two bits of equipment I want to use in the setup. The dividing head already has a myford thread machined onto it, and it was that which gave me the idea to use that as a standard fitting. The RT had one of the converters fitted (they can be removed in a couple of minutes if needed).




So basically, I can fit a chuck to the lathe (either a 3 or 4 jaw self centering) with a choice of inside, outside or soft jaws. The part is then machined using the lathe, then the chuck is spun off (still with the job in the jaws) and quickly transferred to either of the units on the mill. You will notice that the backplate is slightly proud of the chuck. When I was fitting the chuck, I machined the outside of the backplate at the same time I made the spigot for the chuck. This extra protrusion is if I want to clock up while in the mill, any errors will then be in the chucks as supplied, and there is not much you can do about that anyway. I have checked this system out, and I have no more than 0.002" TIR, which is an acceptable tolerance.



You may ask why I don't fit a 4 jaw independent to a backplate and fit that, like a lot of our colonial cousins do.

In my mind, there are two ways to inflict uneccessary pain upon oneself, the first is going to bed wearing barbed wire pyjamas, with extra sharp points in the nether regions, the second is fitting a 4 jaw independent to an RT. I would choose the first option anytime. If I needed to get something that close, I would look at every other method of doing it first.

You also say about this setup, you are losing the faceplate feature of the RT. Not so, another backplate was machined up to make one that is detachable and more versatile. See the next pic.

There were 42 4mm holes tapped into that steel plate, I just thank the person who invented the battery powered portable drill. Half an hour, and I had them all tapped perfectly. Just got to make a few clamps and it is ready for business.




This shows the full universal setup, all bits fit between themselves and the lathe.



This isn't a perfect setup for everyone, the first is that you must have a use for it, as I do.

The second is the Linda Lovelace effect. You have to have a deep throat between the milling spindle and table to accomodate the extra height of the RT or dividing head.

I showed you this so that it might inspire a few of you to try to make adaptable tooling that can be transferred between machines. If done correctly, machining and setup times can be drastically reduced.

While I was machining backplates, I also did another bit of tooling that can be used by almost anyone who has a lathe and has a call to machine large tubes or billets of material, without putting a centre drilling in the end.

This is nothing new, and I made it because I had a spare 80mm 3 jaw knocking about.
But it is fairly easy to do, and adds to your arsenal to murder more bits of metal.

Back end.




Business end.



It is a rotating tailstock chuck.


John
« Last Edit: November 11, 2008, 01:22:09 PM by bogstandard »

Offline Divided he ad

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Re: My ideal solution
« Reply #3 on: November 11, 2008, 07:33:52 PM »
Well I sure like the set up John.... But as I said the other day... And as you said here (in a fashion)  The gap between spindle and bed are the issue on little machines like mine!!

Still I really like this... Once I finally upgrade my premises I'll be looking for larger machines and the inovative tooling to go with it  ;D



Ralph.
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Offline Bernd

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Re: My ideal solution
« Reply #4 on: November 11, 2008, 07:56:48 PM »
Didn't understand at first what you were doing John, but then realized you have a cam lock for your chuck on the lathe. That's why the morse taper and threaded part, right?.

Nice set of tools you got there by the way. I'm having a bit of tool envy.  :clap:

Bernd
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bogstandard

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Re: My ideal solution
« Reply #5 on: November 11, 2008, 08:28:41 PM »
Yes Bernd, spot on.

What it does is basically turns my lathe nose into a Myford one instead of a D1-4 camlock. But could be used on any lathe with a 2MT or larger fitting.

No need for tool envy Bernd, these are for the other side of my machining 'empire', and are there due to necessity rather than anything else.
 
I have just proved their use, not these ones, but other specialist tooling I have. I have just won a contract to make model steam engine valves. Got a phone call today yesterday to verify. All due to the accuracy I can now manually machine to.






Now the struggles begin. The shop has to be fully operational within the next two weeks.

John


Offline Bernd

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Re: My ideal solution
« Reply #6 on: November 11, 2008, 10:06:34 PM »
Gongrad's are in order then on your contract.  :clap: And wishing great success.  :beer:

Bernd
Route of the Black Diamonds

Offline Brass_Machine

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Re: My ideal solution
« Reply #7 on: November 11, 2008, 11:37:53 PM »
John,

I finely understand where you are going with this solution. Awesome on the contract gig! Proud of you mate!

Eric
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We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.

Offline dsquire

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Re: My ideal solution
« Reply #8 on: November 12, 2008, 01:04:48 AM »
John

Congratulations on the contract. :beer: Hope all goes well for you. :clap:

cheers

Don
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bogstandard

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Re: My ideal solution
« Reply #9 on: November 12, 2008, 04:44:08 AM »
Many thanks gents.

That goes to prove, if you are willing to put a bit of effort into it, you can beat the big boys in this game. It is not an earth shattering job, but as they say about little acorns.

I forgot to add to the main post a piccy of the taistock chuck, and how it works.



This little 80mm chuck should be able to hold up to 6" diameter tube.

John


bogstandard

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Re: My ideal solution
« Reply #10 on: November 25, 2008, 11:46:56 AM »
Just a little update on my small contract. Not just a small contract but small bits as well. These were delivered from the company today.



There are a few more of the handwheels (60+). But the O-rings are miniscule, and not many spares, so I will have to make sure everywhere is kept clean and tidy.

So I have big machines to make tiny bits. Thank goodness I have just had new glasses.

And the shop still isn't ready. So it looks like a bit of give and take on that score.

Bogs

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Re: My ideal solution
« Reply #11 on: November 25, 2008, 01:12:39 PM »
Bog's

I think your hand is way to big. That's why the parts look so small.  :D

They are tiny. This is were a Sherline lathe and mill would come in handy. Ah, I keep forgetting you don't have the room for more than a few machines. <grinning, running and ducking as Bog's throws a wrench at me>  :whip:  :hammer:
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Offline Darren

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Re: My ideal solution
« Reply #12 on: November 25, 2008, 01:21:37 PM »
Blimey, do you have to machine these, guess so, would love to see how you hold them in the lathe.... :dremel:
You will find it a distinct help… if you know and look as if you know what you are doing. (IRS training manual)

bogstandard

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Re: My ideal solution
« Reply #13 on: November 25, 2008, 02:10:41 PM »
Bernd,

I have friends all over the world, any more comments like that just might get you a visit from people making offers you can't refuse. :whip:  :wack: ::) ::)


Darren,

Any large machine can be made to make very small bits. Most machine limitations are in the mind of the owner.

This is how you do it.


Make holding fixtures, and use VERY sharp tooling.
This was using the four jaw to get the offset crank pin, 1mm diameter. The dimple in the end is the layout centre pop mark.




This is the outcome, this was turned from a solid bar of silver steel (drill rod).




Then you can make engines this small.



And they do run

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=76_TtDfYPCo



Never let large machine sizes put you off anything.

John

Offline dsquire

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Re: My ideal solution
« Reply #14 on: November 25, 2008, 07:57:50 PM »
John

Amazing, as usual I learn something new with ever post of your that I read. All the best with your contract. :clap:

Cheers

Don
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bogstandard

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Re: My ideal solution
« Reply #15 on: November 25, 2008, 08:30:52 PM »
Thanks Don.

I have now got a bit of a dilemma, my new four jaw is twice the size of my old one, so the holding fixtures will need to be twice as big. The one shown wasn't that shape for any other reason than that it was the first bit that I grabbed from the recycle bin, that was big enough to do the job.

Drill a hole the same size as the bit you want to hold, put a hacksaw cut into the side, so that it grips the part tighter as you tighten the jaws, maybe a spot of superglue as well, to stop the part moving when you are handling the holding jig, job done.

John

Offline Darren

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Re: My ideal solution
« Reply #16 on: November 26, 2008, 05:53:50 AM »
Thanks John,

Really appreciate these "how to" posts.
Bet that 4 jaw took a bit to set up "just right" with such as small pin, esp with it doing the clamping as well.....
You will find it a distinct help… if you know and look as if you know what you are doing. (IRS training manual)

bogstandard

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Re: My ideal solution
« Reply #17 on: November 26, 2008, 06:43:33 AM »
Darren,

I didn't really mean to turn it into a how to post, I had been doing that on another site for over a year, and didn't really want to repeat what I have already shown elsewhere.

This group has a lot more potential than being turned into another model engineering site.

John

Offline Darren

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Re: My ideal solution
« Reply #18 on: November 26, 2008, 06:53:28 AM »
I understand John, but it's the method that has value here.

I mean, the principle can be scaled up or down for various other applications, not just models.
Lets say someone had a fine finish on a part that they didn't want to damage by holding in the chuck, maybe even a milling knee shaft repair this would work just dandy.

Darren
« Last Edit: November 26, 2008, 10:03:21 AM by Darren »
You will find it a distinct help… if you know and look as if you know what you are doing. (IRS training manual)

bogstandard

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Re: My ideal solution
« Reply #19 on: November 26, 2008, 12:47:54 PM »
Darren,

Remember your visit, and the brass shimstock.

That is perfect to prevent jaw bruising, as is ali drinks cans cut up with a pair of scissors, but neither will prevent bruising if you give the chuck a white knuckle tightening. That is the time to make a holding fixture.

I remember when I was asked to refurbish a Mamiya/Manix surface mount machine. So I duly ordered 100 very small high precision vacuum pick up nozzles to be made (at very high cost), from a local 'high precision' machine shop. They were absolutely perfect on size and finish, except for three bruise marks on the tail end of each one, where they must have let the apprentice use a 3 jaw instead of a collet for the final hand finishing. Of course they were all remade perfectly, at no charge.

John

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Re: My ideal solution
« Reply #20 on: November 26, 2008, 04:29:39 PM »
John,

Remember me mentioning my bench vice jaws were not parallel.....it turned out to be the vice itself and not the jaws. I "coke canned" a slither at one end under both jaws.

It's true now and holds objects perfectly   :)
You will find it a distinct help… if you know and look as if you know what you are doing. (IRS training manual)