Chinese Lathe CO6230A

[GerryB]

G.Day Each,
I did mention a while back that i intended to make a Siamesed outlet to my Suds supply due to only the one type of outlet that traverses with the saddle.
Now this is ok but you sometimes need to direct coolant to one spot.
EG. when boring in the headstock.
But as always something else has raised it head as i was turning.
The Suds Pump for no apparent reason will only deliver full on.
I took the unit apart but could find nothing amiss.
Now the pump delivers quite a large quantity of suds but when i try to restrict the flow it goes into a stop wait,go,wait deliver some more mode.
In other words the flow now is intermittent.
There is plenty of coolant in the tank.
Anyone any suggestions?
GerryB

[David Jupp]

Probably a centrifugal pump that isn't designed to generate much head - when you restrict the flow, back pressure increases and may exceed capability of the pump - flow then falls (reducing back pressure) -> repeating cycle.

Instead of restricting flow, could you bleed off some of the flow?

Might also be worth reviewing your piping for any additional causes of pressure drop (elbows, diameter reductions, etc.).

[John Hill]

Might also be worth reviewing your piping for any additional causes of pressure drop (elbows, diameter reductions, etc.).

If you are using those 'pretend to be flash' chrome plated spiral armored tubes (which as just like the ones in your bathroom shower) be very wary of them as the end fittings are really crap and tightening them up twists the thin inner hose.

[GerryB]

Hi John &b David,thanks for the comeback.
I understand where you are coming from,
The pump is the one supplied with the lathe.
There seems nothing wrong,well nothing i can put my finger on,with the pump.
It delivers a good qty of suds so i do not suspect a restriction in the pipe work.
I like Davids idea of bleeding off to reduce the end result.i shall look into some sort of bleed unit when i make the adapter to feed two outlets.
I have not dismantled the pump yet.i was wondering if there is some sort of bypass built in to relieve pressure if the flow is restricted.
GerryB

[David Jupp]

A 'kick back' valve lifting could be responsible if there is one in place.  Centrifugal pumps often don't have a relief valve as they are self-limiting with regards to pressure generation (though they can still suffer from overheating in no-flow conditions).

[GerryB]

G.Day David,
I cannot remember seeing anything about a kickback valve in the instruction book supplied with the lathe.
Sounds  like a ball valve that stops the liquid from returning to the source.
Maybe it is built into the pump unit.
I will remove the pump and take a look.
As i am about it i will take apart the unit mounted on the saddle and work my way through the flexible pipes.
GerryB

[GerryB]

Hi.
Well i dismantled the cooling system from the nozzle right back to the Pump.
Removed the Pump and removed the base plate.
There was no non return valve or any  thing else in the delivery system.
All seemed ok even blew out the flexible pipe.
I did notice that although the delivery pipes were about 6 to 7mm in bore dia.,the bore of the control valve (tap) was no more than 1/8".
Drained the tank,cleaned and inspected the Magnet that i had put there,every thing OK.
The only thing i noticed was that the Suds mixture was having an effect on the paint used on the Pump,the paint used on the Tank was OK
I also noted that the base (inlet) of the Pump was 2" from the floor of the Tank,now i realise that space is needed to allow any swarf etc to settle out but 2" is quite a few pints of liquid.
There is a dividing petition in the Tank separating the return from the take up.
Any way reassembled the unit,filled the tank and switched on.
Perfect,plenty of coolant and controllable right down to a trickle.
So what might have caused the problem in the first place?
GerryB

[John Hill]

So what might have caused the problem in the first place?
GerryB

Crappy hose twisted and it came untwisted when you unscrewed the end fitting. DAMHIK!

[GerryB]

G.Day John,
I don't think the hose was at fault,it seems well made and when i inspected the couplings etc.all was well.
A few weeks back i  needed a back plate in order to fit a 5" 6Jaw chuck i had.
Looking  at what was available in Oz i was disappointed at the high cost especially when considering the cost of the lathe'
I was quoted $145AU from a company in Queensland plus postage for one.
After surfing the internet i came across a company in the USA that would supply Two Back Plates plus postage for $135US.
Made the payment and within the week they arrived.
I also purchased a 5C Collet Chuck so machined the first Back Plate to accept it.
I noticed that it was not up to the quoted tolerance,being about .002" out of true.
So back to square one and see where the problem lay.
Clocked the main mounting head,ok.
Refitted the back plate and checked,maybe a little off but not enough to write home about but i decided to give the plate a small finishing cut of .002'' at the lowest feed rate and refit the chuck.
Still out by .0015'' so started to tap the chuck with a mallet,worse,now .010'' out,what is going on?
Then i tumbled to it.
I got the chuck key fitted and using a small tube gave the key some stick,that did the job.
So now i am in the throws of making a chuck key long enough to tighten the chuck without skinning ones knuckles on the Head Stock.
GerryB

[GerryB]

G.Day Each,
I turned up a suitable key and made sure that the Tommy Bar is n line with the flat of the Square End,
I don't know why my Keys are fitted with Tommy Bars at all different alinements,but i prefer some sort of alinement that helps you position the  the Key where you want to.
Problems !!!
I started to set up the Lathe this morning in order to turn up a rifle barrel, no problems.
Checked the oil levels through the windows fitted in the  Gear Box.OK,Head Stock,OK,Apron ?.
The level in the Apron window was a little odd,no level as such,just an indication that it was full.
After about 4 hrs. turning i started to clean the Lathe and noticed that the sight window in the Apron was showing White Liquid,vary odd.
Removed the Filler Plug on the top and withdrew a sample out with a Pump.
All i got out was a load of gooey liquid.
So removed the Drain Plug in the base of the Apron and out came a load of the mixture.
It would seem that Suds was finding its way into the Apron.
So now i have a dismantling job on hand to find out where the Suds can leak into the Apron and then to cure the problem.
I realise that no reel harm has come to the inside components of the Apron but i am not happy.
Has anyone of you with same type of Lathe come up against this problem?
I did notice a number of times when cleaning down that oil was getting out in the vicinity of the main Traversing Handle Bearing.
I at first put this down to maybe over filling the Apron in the first place,also it proved that lubrication was getting to the bearing.
Will let you know what i find when i dismantle the Apron/Saddle unit.
GerryB

[Davo J]

It sounds like you are getting it sorted.
I don't know about you, but the cam lock key that came with mine would make you belt your knuckles on the head stock as it was to short. I made up a new one and just filed the square on the end as it was quicker than setting up in th mill that day.
You can see by this photo how much longer it is

I also made my standard handles into speed handles, which makes changing the jaws around much quicker.
I just made up sleeves and press fitted collars on the bottom to hold it on. I also put 3 grooves in the 3 jaw one and 4 grooves in the 4 jaw to tell them apart easily.


Dave

[John Hill]

My  CQ6230A came with one key long enough to use on the camlock, if I first clear the stuff off the top of the gear box!  There is another which has a loose cross bar and that is easy to use on the camlock too and is the only one that can be used with the face plate.

Those speed handles look very nice!

John

[GerryB]

G.Day Each,
Yes i must agree the T handles look the ticket.
I have been thinking and i must try it out,whether the 3/8" or the 1/2" square drive on the Ratchet Spanner of a Socket Set could be made  use of?
I mean they have different lengths of bars to extend the Socket out.
I  envisage that the square would need reducing and that this would make the tool useless for its normal use.
Just a thought.
GerryB

[Davo J]

My  CQ6230A came with one key long enough to use on the camlock, if I first clear the stuff off the top of the gear box!  There is another which has a loose cross bar and that is easy to use on the camlock too and is the only one that can be used with the face plate.

Those speed handles look very nice!

John

Hi John,
Sounds like mine come with the same setup as yours, it's a bit hard to remember because I modded them a few years ago now. I do remember getting annoyed with the T handle coming out all the time.
I think I used the sliding bar in my extended T handle.

The speed handles are just made up from the standard chuck keys, but make the job of turning jaws around so much quicker. I drilled the top of the key and welded the T handle in so it wouldn't move or come out. The bolt that holds the revolving handle goes through the handle and is threaded into the base piece, then continues on and clamps the whole lot onto the end of the T handle. I also filed a flat in the end of the T handle for the bolt end to sit in.

Dave

[Davo J]

G.Day Each,
Yes i must agree the T handles look the ticket.
I have been thinking and i must try it out,whether the 3/8" or the 1/2" square drive on the Ratchet Spanner of a Socket Set could be made  use of?
I mean they have different lengths of bars to extend the Socket out.
I  envisage that the square would need reducing and that this would make the tool useless for its normal use.
Just a thought.
GerryB

Hi Gerry
It makes it quicker and easier having a dedicated camlock key. With your socket idea you could pick up a cheap socket reducer from one of the $2 stores or in the cheap bin at Bunnings etc. Even a cheap socket with a piece of square bar pushed/welded in it would do. That way you wouldn't be stuffing a good one. I use a Sidchrome sliding T bar on my mill vice with a 19mm socket on it all the time.

I have also seen guys using the small (butterfly) air wrenches for changing chuck jaws. They have them hanging close by, I have a few but the last thing I want to hear when machining is the compressor running and think the speed handles are just as quick.

That camlock key I made up is only mild steel heated and dipped in oil when I finished it so it wouldn't rust. The container wasn't deep enough so I had to turn it around reheat to dip other end. I have had it for a couple of years now and it shows no sign of wear at all. I only use a Primus propane torch to heat it and do this to all my tooling I make.
When I made it I just measured the diagonal across the standard square key and machined the end of the bar round to that measurement, with a taper and a step leading down to it that I thought looked good.  I then just grabbed a file and filed the square while it was in the lathe which didn't take long. Once that was done I drilled the hole for the standard T bar handle.

Dave

[GerryB]

G.Day Each.
Re the Suds getting into the Apron.
I started dismantling the Saddle unit,removed the DRO unit,also the Toolpost unit.
I spotted a hole in the Swivel Table that seemed a likely spot to investigate for the Suds getting through to the Apron.
Removed the Saddle Unit and Bingo found the reason for the problem.
The Cross Feed Screw is in a well/slot in the Saddle.
Now with the End Plate attached there is no way any liquid can escape other than through the hole in the end of the slot that allows the Cross Feed Screw to come out to the Dial unit.
So it seems that Suds is getting past the Tool Post through the hole in the Cross Slide and into the Well of the Saddle where it can only get out and into the Apron.
Now i could be clever and strip the Saddle down to bare bones and machine a suitable bearing surface and fit an 'O' ring but that sounds too much like hard work which does not  help with the Suds getting there in the first place.
So i have decided to drill the base inside the well with 1/4" holes,about 4 should do so that when Suds do get in the Well it will have somewhere to drain before reaching the height of the hole.
GerryB

[GerryB]

Well,
After cleaning away the crud that builds up i decided to drill 4 holes in the Well or Trench as you wish,see  Photo.
I chose a 6mm drill and proceeded,no problems.
Cleaned away the swarf and now let the Suds supply a large quantity of Suds to the Well.
All systems go,the 4 holes allowed the Suds to drain away without entering the hole for the Cross Feed Screw.
I don't think that large quantities of Suds were getting through to the Well but were filling up slowly over time due to no where to go once it got there.
Any way cleaned and lubricated slide ways etc,refitted the Cross Slide,adjusted the  backlash.
Refitted the DRO unit and tested,all OK.
Filled the Apron to the level in the Sight Glass with Hydraulic Oil?
Yes i wondered whats with this Hydraulic Oil.but its not the Oil you put in your Brake/Clutch System.
Apparently it is the Oil used in JCB's and the like.
I friend of mine who is the Manager of a local Engineering Co.told me that it is all they use in their Lathes etc,so he kindly gave me a gallon.
The Manual supplied with the Lathe is quite good in many respects but doe's not inform you of a recommended oil to use.
GerryB

[Davo J]

I tried to reply last night but the site was playing up and I lost my reply.
My apron/cross slide is different to yours. Mine has a small sheet metal plate on it in front of the cross slide hand wheel. If I take it off I can see down in the apron.
I have not run coolant on mine so I will look out for this when and if I do, but it looks like yours is sorted.
I also use hydraulic oil and super cheap have quality stuff (Shell I think) and it's around $99 for 20ltrs. I wait until they have the 20% off days and buy it then.

Dave

[John Hill]

Just a point Gerry, is that a cap screw in a countersunk hole in your picture Mill Drill 015?  Maybe your lathe is different to mine but the lads who assembled mine put a common cap screw to hold the cross slide nut, it should have been a countersunk set screw and when I found one it made a nice flush fit with less room from crud to accumulate and nothing sticking above the surface of the slide.

[Davo J]

It looks like mine and from memory it is a standard cap screw but has a steel bush type thing that it sits in.

Dave

[GerryB]

G.Day Each,
John, i think that my Lathe is a little updated due to just being manufactured.
I presume and expect that the manufacturer makes modifications to the machines in production.
I went out to the Shed to take a look at my setup.
Yes it is a Cap Screw.
So i removed it.
The hole is not Countersunk but has a Setting Collar inserted.
Now after i cleaned out the crud i could see that the receiving screw hole in the Cross Feed Nut seemed to be in line with the hole.
The hole was a little off centre to the hole in the Cross Slide so i imagine that this allows any displacement of the centre of the Cross Feed Screw to be accommodated.
Any way refitted the the Cap Nut and every thing is OK,well fingers crossed.
Dave,I also have a removable plate covering the end of the well but mine is at the rear.
When the plate is fitted there is no way that you can get or see down the recess.
If the plate was not fitted then i think i would not have had the problem with Suds building up in the Well and draining out through the hole that lets the Cross Feed Screw through and ending up in the Apron.
Now i come to think about it i could not have fitted an 'O' ring as the Dia. of the hole is large to allow the Screw to be removed through it..
GerryB

[Davo J]

Hi Gerry,
The plate I am talking about on mine goes directly above the apron between the cross slide dovetails.
In your picture Mill Drill 013, the plate goes where you have the ground section at the top of the photo.

Dave

[John Hill]

I have thought of filling the gap around the feed screw with thick felt, or maybe some of an old woolen sock,  which used to work with leaky rear axles on old cars!.

[GerryB]

G.Day Dave,
The plate that covers the end open end of the slot is at the rear of the Saddle unit.
I am wondering if any one would like me to copy my Manual as a download as it was supplied with the Lathe.
I believe that some purchasers  of the CO6230A were not supplied with a suitable instruction Manual.
Mind you,my Manual leaves some thing out.
There is no mention of the Suds Pump or its set up,no mention of the Foot Brake Unit or its set up,like wise with the Lamp.
The Electrical Circuit Diagrams are ok (3 Phase and Single Phase) but little in the way of where or to what the extra units are connected to.
These were items that i had to sort out by trial and error (plenty of the error)but all went well in the end.
There are over 50 pages to the Manual.
GerryB

[GerryB]

G.Day Each,
This is another attempt to write further info.on the Lathe,it would seem that i only have to nudge the Mouse accidently like and i loose all that i have written.
I have hidden the Mouse.
I have been machining an old ,25 barrel that a friend gave me in order to fit the Webley Service Air Rifle MkII.
All was going well until i came to the machining of the Breach.
Now this should cause no problems but i was concerned about the Muzzle which is up the far end of the Head Stock unsupported so to speak.
So i decided to drill and tap 4 suitable holes to make a Lantern Chuck or a Fixed Steady like arrangement.
Upon removing the Cover i was amazed to find that the inner dia of the Head Stock Bearing was threaded.
That is for about 32mm by, a 1.5mm pitch and then a slight shoulder.
There is nothing mentioned in the Manual and i have never come across an arrangement that uses this type of security.
I know that tools such as a Collet Draw Tube and the like are used.
Does anyone have information on what is fitted to this thread?
It does not seem likely that the manufacturer would just machine a thread for nothing.
In the mean time i will have to devise something to fit the thread and support the Muzzle.
GerryB