Author Topic: filing machine  (Read 30494 times)

Offline GWRdriver

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Re: filing machine
« Reply #25 on: January 26, 2011, 11:03:48 AM »
This is what I have.  Apart from the leak it all works.  Only identification is the plate which might be only the distributor. I haven't found much at all about it online.
Pete,
I think you are right about Urqhart being a distributor.  A Scot Urqhart traded out of London for years, selling very nice tooling, rotary tables and such.  I wonder if Scot is the successor?  In any case I have a die filer very similar to yours and it too tends to walk around the tabletop when running.

FYI, here are the names of all known US makers of die filers:
Aaron
Adrian (Adrian-Oliver)
All-American
Bambrick
Bentley
Boice-Crane
Butterfly (Harvey Mfg Co.)
Do-All
Engis
Grob
Harvey Mfg Co. (Butterfly)
High Speed Hammer
Hirschman
Hudson Automatic
Hypres
Illinois Tool
Ideal
Keller
Milwaukee
Nord
Oliver (or Adrian-OLiver)
Pratt & Whitney
Postel
Rice
Setco
Stow
Symmetrical
Tannewita
Theil/Gerruder
Toolkraft

The last active manufacturer of new files for die filers I am aware of was Federal File Co in Memphis Tennessee.   They are still very much in business but I think the die files have been discontinued.  I've been unable to contact them today to confirm.
Cheers,
GWRdriver
Nashville TN

Offline Dean W

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Re: filing machine
« Reply #26 on: January 26, 2011, 11:22:49 PM »
Jack, seeing your original post makes me want one (again).  That happens every time someone shows theirs!  : )
I like the MLA model.  It looks sturdy, and mainly, not too large.  My shop space is very limited. 
Thanks for the thread to get me thinking about this again.   Saw the one in John's thread a few days back, and
now this one..  Must be a sign!

Pete, I wonder how you determined your die filer is meant to cut on the up-stroke?   A great reason for them to
cut going down is that it pulls the work against the table. 
Dean W.

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Offline Bogstandard

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Re: filing machine
« Reply #27 on: January 27, 2011, 02:08:51 AM »
Pete,

Many thanks for the info PDF.

As can be seen from the cover on mine, it says it is British made, but most probably made under licence from the original producer.



I need to have a closer look at the data plate.


Dean,

I had been looking for one for a few years at the right price, knowing that at some time, I would really need one to allow me to carry on in the shop.
When I least expected it, Stew donated this one to my shop. About a hundred bucks for all the correct files that I needed, and I was up and running.

There have been plans shown for ones that are driven from your lathe, but personally, I think that would be a bit of a bind to use, and I personally would always look for a stand alone unit.

Your time will come, when you least expect it.

John
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Offline GWRdriver

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Re: filing machine
« Reply #28 on: January 27, 2011, 08:11:43 AM »
I've used it well for more than ten years, never got to cleaning it up after testing it, so it didn't get paint
Jack,
I can identify with that.  My die filer needed a rebuild and spiffing up when I got it, but instead it was put right to work and still needs the rebuild and paint.  When that old board thread "What's your most-used workshop tool?" invariably pops up my answer is always my FILES, but running neck & neck with them for second might be my die filer.
Cheers,
GWRdriver
Nashville TN

Offline Dean W

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Re: filing machine
« Reply #29 on: January 27, 2011, 10:26:23 PM »
John, I've seen the type for use on the lathe in a magazine article.  Might be nice but I think, like you say, could be a bind.
I'd surly have something setup in the lathe when I wanted to use it.
I enjoy my hand files and treat them nicely, as they do a lot of work for me.  I'll come across a die filer one day and probably
will wonder how I tackled life without it! 
Dean W.

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Offline madjackghengis

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Re: filing machine
« Reply #30 on: January 29, 2011, 09:04:38 AM »
Hi Pete, Mr. Fluffy, John et all, I'm glad I struck a note on this, there seems to be lots of interest in it, and good ideas.  Pete, you didn't highjack it, just drove it for a while.  Mr. Fluffy, I look at engines every day, and in truth, I think you could readily use a small engine, it needn't be larger than a four or five horse given the size bearings they have, and if you leave the piston in, with just the oil control ring to keep the filings out of the crankcase, and kept it full of oil, after removing the cam, you could bolt a file holder directly to the piston, and fix the table where the head used to be.  some sheet metal around the pillar the files go in, to keep the filings from having a direct path to the cylinder and making most fall off the side, and some felt packed in the ring grooves would be as good as what I've got in my machine keeping filings out of the crankcase.  the piston and rod assbly is already balanced better than we would probably do, and the addition of a pillar and the mass of a file would be nothing, as those engines are governed at 3600, and I don't think my die filer ever is run over about 800 rpm or maybe nine.  I'd say any vertical cylinder engine would be a good candidate, assuming you change the oil after you do the conversion.  That's a great idea, one to keep.  Now having stolen my thread back, all that information about die files is useful, I got a handful among some other tooling I got from someone, but knowing where it can be found is nice.  It sounds like everyone with a filing machine is as happy about theirs as I am with mine, I do wonder why I did without mine for so long, and was using it every day the last week.  Like John says, if you had to list what you use, it would be right up there near the top of the list. :nrocks: :headbang: mad jack

Offline madjackghengis

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Re: filing machine
« Reply #31 on: January 29, 2011, 09:38:33 AM »
John, I've seen the type for use on the lathe in a magazine article.  Might be nice but I think, like you say, could be a bind.
I'd surly have something setup in the lathe when I wanted to use it.
I enjoy my hand files and treat them nicely, as they do a lot of work for me.  I'll come across a die filer one day and probably
will wonder how I tackled life without it! 
Hi Dean, and all others who have considered one of those filing machines that fit on lathes, I've got a solid 1948 Logan ten in lathe, and I've removed the carriage and apron assembly several times just because some crumbs of iron, or of bronze have gotten under the flat way in the rear of the carriage, even while taking care to keep such things out, and the thought of deliberately filing crumbs down onto my lathe bed immediately took me off of even considering one of those, even though it would have been far easier and cheaper than buying and building the kit one.  I found out by accident at one point, the reason I'd lost my accuracy was some niggling little crumbs were under that back way, and now consider that as always a consideration.  I think, as per my earlier post, Mr. Fluffy has got the right idea, and the piston of a vertical engine, particularly if you found an old one that was say cast iron, is perfect for keeping the motion dead up and down, and I dare say the balance issue is far better addressed than in most machine tools since it is so blazingly critical to the higher speeds of the engine's purpose.  I wish Mr. Fluffy had posted before I built my filer, I'd be doing it out of an old Briggs and Stratton.  The first engine I ever "rebuilt" was a one and a quarter horse Briggs vertical, that came off a reel type lawnmower, and was given to me by a church friend, who got it from grandfather, took it apart, and couldn't figure out how it went back together.  It was all cast iron, was as tight as the day it was new, and rolling the exhaust valve on the bench and hitting it in the right spot with a hammer until it looked round fixed it, but as heavy as it was, and as rigid as everything about was, it would have been a perfect candidate.  I'm thinking one might be a perfect candidate for a vertical power hacksaw, or using a vertical shaft engine just to provide the reciprocating, and attaching an arm with the right angles incorporated so as to cut on the pull stroke, like the filer, against the solid base, and have a horizontal power hacksaw.  Again, all the bearings are there, oil is well designed into the structure, and you're not going to put any real load on it like it running under power, I don't think you'd need more than a 1/4 h.p. motor to run it, and the small ones are 3 and a 1/2, with most at five or more.  If you're not trying to run the engine, you can turn it on its side, with consideration for where the oil leaks out if on the breather side, keeping it up, and it will splash oil everything important.  One of those central air fan motors with three or five speeds would power it well and make for small rpm changes within the scope of rational pulley ratios in probably one pair.  I blew up that old cast iron Briggs when I was ten, when the outside magneto loosened the screws and fell into the flywheel, but it still would work fine for a filer, or a hacksaw, if I weren't forty years away from its last heave ho.  :lol:  :beer: cheers, mad jack

Offline bambuko

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Re: filing machine
« Reply #32 on: January 29, 2011, 07:26:27 PM »
Can anybody see any reasons why one couldn't/shouldn't use vertical slotting/shaping head on a Bridgeport as a die filer in reverse?
With up to 4" stroke and between 70-420 strokes per minute, it should be a simple matter of arranging working table and some means of holding a file and Bob is your uncle?
Added advantage would be the fact that one could use standard files - pushing down on the table, instead of pulling towards the table as per die filer?
This is what I am talking about btw:
http://www.lathes.co.uk/bridgeport/img10.gif

Chris

Offline Bogstandard

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Re: filing machine
« Reply #33 on: January 29, 2011, 09:52:40 PM »
Quote
Can anybody see any reasons why one couldn't/shouldn't use vertical slotting/shaping head on a Bridgeport as a die filer in reverse?

No reason at all Chris, except it could be a little bit of an overkill, and like using one driven by the lathe, it would be a bit of a chore to swing the main head around when you want to do a little quickie job on your mill.

Other than that, no problem.


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Offline bambuko

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Re: filing machine
« Reply #34 on: January 30, 2011, 04:33:30 AM »
Thanks Bogs and Ken,
I take your point about it being PITA and an overkill, but my workshop is very small so I am used to farting around like this just to get things done - I simply don't have space for another machine, even as small as die filer.
My Bridgeport had a shaper hanging from it's rear end since I bought it, but I haven't used it very often:


Chris

Offline bambuko

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Re: filing machine
« Reply #35 on: January 31, 2011, 05:30:49 AM »
It's original Bridgeport accessory.

Offline J Harp

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Re: filing machine
« Reply #36 on: February 01, 2011, 07:45:13 AM »
A York automotive AC compressor looks like it would be a good start for a filer. It has various machined mounting pads for attaching parts.
Question, what would be an ideal stroke length and strokes per minute? If using an engine or compressor the stroke would be fixed, but if you were building one from scratch what would be a good stroke length to shoot for?
Jim
Jim

Offline madjackghengis

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Re: filing machine
« Reply #37 on: February 12, 2011, 10:13:55 AM »
Hi Jim, Chris et al, I'd have to agree with Jim, the ac compressor would work fine, as to strokes per minute and length of stroke, mine has an inch of stroke, and I'm running it at about six hundred rpm, and that seems to work well for me.  I don't think I'd increase the stroke any at all unless I had to, but if I did, I'd reduce the speed to minimize vibration and hopping around.  I've played with a couple different engines since I posted last, I've got a weedeater engine, a little two stroke, which would be fine, just needing a cover plate for the rear, a modified spark plug to provide a guide bushing for the file holder attached to the piston, and a table for the work to sit on, and I've got a five horse Briggs and Stratton which would prefer the cam be removed, but other than that, would be a similar situation, just bigger and a bit more solid to reduce vibration.  I'd leave flywheels on, and try to use the head, or cut a piece of scrap to match it, and match drill to use head bolts, just to provide something solid to put a guide bushing in, and keep most of the filings away from the piston and bore.  Chris, that shaping head would work fine, you'd just need a table to hold the work off the mill table, with a hole in the middle, for the file to go through and I'd have a sheet or skirt of some sort to collect the filings, and keep them out of ways and such.  I wish I had that vertical shaper on the back of my mill. :poke: Truth to tell, if I had access to these ideas before I bought my kit, I'd have made one out of one of the many offered devices, they all have the potential and all are cheaper than the kit price, but having made mine, I won't let it go now.  I hope this helps on this issue, they are worth their weight in top quality scrap  :lol: mad jack


Offline J Harp

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Re: filing machine
« Reply #39 on: February 21, 2011, 08:30:45 PM »
I found this thread again today, had forgot about it. Anyway I measured the stroke on the York compressor which I've been saving for 15 years or more. The stroke is about 1.875 inches as measured with a combination square. The compressor seems to be quite ruggedly built, they were used on big trucks, so needed to be tough. I think it would make a good start for a filer if the speed was kept fairly low.

The All American model 1500 die filer looks like a nice machine, so I downloaded a PDF manual for it. The stroke on it is 1.5 inches and the speed is variable from 210 to 470 strokes per minute. Here is a link to the manual if anyone would care to look at it. Click on "copy of owners manual".

http://www.wentztech.com/metalworking/DieFiler/DieFiler.html

Jim

Jim