Author Topic: Modding yo-yos (Read 33782 times)

Mark132 · « **on:** February 11, 2011, 11:19:07 PM »

I know 1 or 2 of you were interested in seeing some yo-yo modding. What I'm going to show below is one of the yo-yos I finished today.

Yo-yoing has evolved significantly in the past 20 years or so. Until around 1990 all yo-yos had been fixed axle, then the first ball bearing axles were introduced. With longer sleep times yo-yo tricks became much longer and interesting. Around 2000-2001, players started messing with the traditional way that the yo-yo returns and played their yo-yo with little to no tug response. There are no limitations to what a player can do with their yo-yo now. creative tricks are the only concern.

I take low end responsive yo-yos and modify them in a way that allows advanced tricks. This usually involves cutting a groove around the bearing and applying silicone in the groove that allows a bind return. Basically the yo-yo returns only when you want it to. Sometimes I will convert the yo-yo to a larger bearing size to widen the string gap to allow more string layers. Sometimes I add weight rings to increase spin times. I did all 3 in the yo-yo below.

This is a beginner model yo-yo that is available at Toys R' us for about $15.
Here is a stock photo of the original

and the insides of the original look like this (not this yo-yo but same setup)

I cut out the original plastic hubs that housed spacers and a smaller 4mm wide bearing, and press inserted 1/2 in aluminum plugs.

Cut down the plugs to fit the larger size bearing on its 1/4" inner race.

drilling for the new axle

tapping for the new 6-32 axle

turning the long end of the plug down for eventual hubstacks, or independent spinning side members.

This is the small bearing on the post

Cutting the silicone response groove

before and after the groove

This is one of the new weight rings that i put on the rim of the yo-yo to increase spin time. The set was discarded from another yo-yo.

facing and turning down to size. Also took the green anodization off.

Cutting the rim down to fit the ring.

Ring fit on the half

Prepping to fill the grooves with flowable silicone.

Silicone installed and axle cut from a 6-32 flathead machine bolt.

After the silicone cured and side spinning hubstacks were installed, the yo-yo is complete.

Now it is a beast of a yo-yo capable of any trick anyone can throw at it.

raynerd · « **Reply #1 on:** February 12, 2011, 01:52:50 AM »

Interesting stuff! What are the white things for on the outside sides of the yoyo ?

Do we get to see any in action videos?

fixit · « **Reply #2 on:** February 12, 2011, 02:25:38 AM »

good stuff didn't know so mutch went on with yo-yos

Steve

it took me several days to make one work (years ago) and my sister about ten seconds

Mark132 · « **Reply #3 on:** February 12, 2011, 02:36:59 AM »

The white things on the side are mounted to the bearing on the outer post. They spin independently and are made of machined delrin. Independent spinning side posts are a relatively new innovation in yo-yos. been around since 2007. They allow you to catch and hold the sides of the yo-yo while its spinning.

I dont have video of this actual yo-yo but here is one of my old ones from 2007 with a few hubstack tricks at the beginning.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXU5defpHyE&feature=player_profilepage" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXU5defpHyE&feature=player_profilepage</a>

sbwhart · « **Reply #4 on:** February 12, 2011, 03:05:16 AM »

Wow thats great

If I tried doing that I'd end up with a right fangle.

Thanks for showing

Stew

Mark132 · « **Reply #5 on:** February 12, 2011, 03:53:00 AM »

Thanks everyone.

Yes there is a balance of several variables that make a good yo-yo. Modifying them is al about making weak playing yo-yos into strong playing yo-yos.

One of the goals is to make the yo-yo smooth and vibration free. It is important to ensure that everything is done to both sides perfectly the same. Unbalanced(rotationally) halves cause a wobbly yo-yo. Other factors also make a wobbly yo-yo, bent axle, uneven bearing seat, trashy bearings, un-evenly treated hubstack bearings etc...

We all know a little about physics here, Max rim weight=max inertia= long spintimes. This is why a plastic body with metal rings are a popular mod. More dense material on the outer rim will increase inertia. A whole company was founded on that principle (www.yoyojam.com. I believe the rings I used on this yo-yo are bi-metallic, aluminum with titanium inserts in the undercut area. Although there is a drawback to massively outer weight, that is that it causes kickback in the throw the wider string gap also causes kickback, meaning when thrown the yo-yo grabs the "weight" and the extra string layers and lurches backward behind the thrower instead of straight downward like you would expect from a yo-yo.

Also extreme outerweaight causes some fulcrum instability. (Imagine 2 big people on a long seesaw). The yo-yo will lose its plane fairly easily.

as you can see there are lots of variables to take into consideration when designing a yo-yo. Most high-end yo-yos are made fully out of aluminum because you can more easily control the weight distribution as they are machined on CNC lathes.

There is a "happy-medium" weight that players like to use that is around the 62-68 g range. That is why aluminum is used instead of brass or steel. Although brass and steel have been used in miniature yo-yos to maintain playable weight in a tiny yo-yo. The mod I posted is about 72 g. I may fix that later.

Companys sometimes use brass and titanium in slim, stable long sleeper yo-yos for world records(which is in the 22 minute range for transaxle yo-yos).
Yo-yo designers try to find the balance of variables that make a smooth, stable, long spinning, comfortable, good looking yo-yo(not necessarily in that order of importance).

outer-weight(width) = spin time
center-weight= stability
small diameter = fast
large diameter = slow

Rob.Wilson · « **Reply #6 on:** February 12, 2011, 05:10:28 AM »

,, nice going Mark

If I tried that i would either end up with my hands tied together or knock myself out with it

Rob

Bogstandard · « **Reply #7 on:** February 12, 2011, 05:58:35 AM »

Mark,

A very interesting post indeed, something totally different to what we have all seen before, a real eye opener.

Things have progressed some since my childhood days (1950-60's) when we couldn't even afford to buy a yoyo, and so made them from large coat buttons stitched together. Not very efficient though, but at least we tried.

It is amazing how technology can change the basic design from something so simple to what you are now showing us.

Bogs

kwackers · « **Reply #8 on:** February 12, 2011, 06:12:56 AM »

Very cool.

And another reason why

it's great to see so much variety.

cidrontmg · « **Reply #9 on:** February 12, 2011, 08:57:10 AM »

I didn't know half of this before. Very interesting.
Any "secrets", or desirable / not good qualities on the string, and how to fix it?

Bernd · « **Reply #10 on:** February 12, 2011, 09:36:01 AM »

Mark,

Amazing what has been done in the yo-yo field. I remember long ago the ones I had were nothing more than two pieces stuck on a dowel and some string.

If I tried what you did in the vid I would have either hurt myself or got the string all notted up or perhaps both.

Thanks for showing. Never knew there was that much involved in yo-yo making.

Bernd

Brass_Machine · « **Reply #11 on:** February 12, 2011, 09:51:54 AM »

Ditto what everyone is saying. That is pretty cool.

Would like to see more.

Eric

Mark132 · « **Reply #12 on:** February 12, 2011, 11:43:54 AM »

Thanks for the comments guys.

Quote from: cidrontmg on February 12, 2011, 08:57:10 AM

Any "secrets", or desirable / not good qualities on the string, and how to fix it?

Believe it or not, the string is actually pretty standard and has not changed in design over the years. Commonly it is a long strand of 3 or 4 ply cotton, polyester or polycotton blend folded inhalf to make a loop and twisted. They are labeled type 6 or type 8 due to the ply and it being doubled i.e. 3x2 or 4x2. I generally always use type 6 polyester string. At a recent contest I happened to win 2 100 count bundles of bright orange poly in a raffle, so that is what I'm using now. In a contest or video it is important to contrast the string with the your clothes and background so that the audience or whoever is watching can see the string. That is why most contest back drops are black and most string is sold white or very bright colored. Usually very soft, predictable behavior and break in period.

Sometimes when people want to enter into the yo-yo business and dont have opportunities to make yo-yos, design yo-yos or own modding equipment they will start out making string. Then it gets experimental. They start using nylon, or different colors, glow in the dark, i've seen kevlar. Nylon string comes out really thin, very stiff and kinda whippy feeling. Takes a while to break in and get used to. Hurts my fingers.

this guy is a popular string maker. People swear by his stuff but i'm not a fan. It is too soft. Feels like itchy yarn after it breaks in. http://www.yoyogstring.com/yoyoGstring_gallery.html

Ray · « **Reply #13 on:** February 12, 2011, 02:04:58 PM »

Mark, I am highly impressed with your knowledge of yo-yos . Great video earlier. Super coordination. Research, design and "complexity" is amazing.
What everybody else said to.

Ray

Mark132 · « **Reply #14 on:** February 12, 2011, 03:39:38 PM »

Thanks for all the kind words.
Just a bit more background and "research" on me.

i graduated from college in December with a B.S. in Mathematics. My senior research paper was about yo-yo tricks.
I have lots of information about modern tricks in it and a couple formulas that describe them.
http://www.yoyonashville.com/Seniorproject.pdf

CallMeAl · « **Reply #15 on:** February 12, 2011, 07:28:07 PM »

Cool! Hot Rod Yo-Yo's Who would of thought! I guess it's just the urge we all have to take something common and make it better, faster, and more impressive. Modding at it's best.

raynerd · « **Reply #16 on:** February 13, 2011, 01:32:10 AM »

Got to chapter 3 but to be honest, had lost it several paragraphs earlier !!!

What did your tutors think of the paper - I expect it was a little different than the dull dross they probably normally have to read.

Blade · « **Reply #17 on:** March 01, 2011, 07:22:03 PM »

Great write up and videos! Thanks for sharing. I have some Titanium valves from nascar engines that I have wanted to make a yo-yo from, I will have to give it a try now that you have shown how.

Mark132 · « **Reply #18 on:** March 02, 2011, 12:30:51 AM »

Titanium yo-yos are awesome. Due to their relative difficulty and cost to machine vs, aluminum it is rarely used for production models. Due to its strength the walls can be much thinner and thus you can really use the outer weight distribution to your advantage. Where an aluminum yo-yo will average about $100 retail, Ti yo-yos usually go for about $300.

I've never owned one because I cant afford it. But they are cool and they spark when you walk the dog.

This one is aluminum hubbed with giant Ti rings. And cool case.

Brass_Machine · « **Reply #19 on:** March 02, 2011, 09:34:27 PM »

A Ti yoyo. How cool. These look pretty sweet. Love how the string is labeled 'software'...

Eric

Mark132 · « **Reply #20 on:** March 03, 2011, 12:42:09 AM »

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9szHFB5Gulw" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9szHFB5Gulw</a>

Here is a video I found with some pics of the more readily available Ti yo-yos. The man in the video is not me, he is a well respected product reviewer and is pretty famous for his professional yo-yo paint jobs and high speed videos. He has a good shot of the Titanium sparking on concrete. Makes walk the dog very cool.

Mark132 · « **Reply #21 on:** March 03, 2011, 01:27:05 AM »

A new yo-yo I did recently.
Very basic. Added weight rings to a plastic yo-yo. The rings were from a previously broken hubbed yo-yo. They are nickel plated brass i believe. Very solid and stable, heavy spin.
around 76 grams after I cut out all of the internal plastic I could without making it too thin.

Mark132 · « **Reply #22 on:** March 07, 2011, 01:47:52 AM »

There was a modding contest held recently on one of the yo-yo message boards. One of the manufacturers sent 4 production rejects to 4 highly respected modders. I was going to be included but he ran out of yo-yos to send before I was nominated for the contest. One of the guys wrote up a nice pdf of his process, step by step. I know you guys would love to see it. The Taig micro Lathe is a popular one for most of the yo-yo modders. Kyle uses one as well as can be seen in the photos in the pdf.

http://nothingtoseehere.info/the_white_glove.pdf

Bernd · « **Reply #23 on:** March 07, 2011, 08:36:43 AM »

Never knew that so much could be done with a Yo-Yo. I remember haveing a long long time ago.

Thanks for sharing the pdf.

Bernd

Ricerocket · « **Reply #24 on:** March 13, 2011, 10:26:07 PM »

:zap:Hey Mark! Great to see you over here. I have been a lurker here at madmodder for almost a year now. Pick up some good ideas from time to time.

Here are a few pics of some of the yoyo mods I've done over the last few years:

Most recent mod: Take the best parts of two yoyos and make one out of them! Hubs from an Velocity and rims from a Starlite

+

=

Added hubstacks to an unstacked yoyo (the independent bearing side caps Mark mentioned above). The maker called it a 'DNS' or 'Do Not Stack' so of course I had to stack it!

A Duncan Fire Wheels (you might fine one of these at a toy store or maybe even Wal Mart). Machined a new hub to accept a bearing and hubstacks. Also added silicone response ring:

I machined the caps so that they acted as hubstacks so the whole 'wheel' spins. Backside of the cap:

Video of the spinning side caps:

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8TLuVoZ_XKE" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8TLuVoZ_XKE</a>

Rehubbed Bolt with spikes on the outside (once again for catching the yoyo on the outside with your fingers)

This one started out clear. Painted it from the inside and also made new hubs for it. This one features side spinning caps and was recently auctioned off for charity (just like the 4 Mark had the pic of above. BTW, mine is the 2nd from the left)

Another one like the one above showing side cap spinning action:

Close up of what a machined hubstack post looks like. The bearing sits over the post and is held into place with an o-ring.

This is a mod I did a while back. You can change the center section to change it from a 'small' to a 'large' bearing. This totally changes the play of the yoyo:

This one was a tough mod. Reshaped Freehand Zero and added lights!

I also machine 12mm so they fit over a hubstack bearing for that little extra 'touch'

Some other random mods:

Mark132 · « **Reply #25 on:** March 14, 2011, 01:57:59 AM »

Woohoo. Love seeing your work rice. Especially all in one place. Its hard as one person to explain the entirety of our yo-yo modding culture to the madmodder nation. glad you are here to back me up.

dsquire · « **Reply #26 on:** March 14, 2011, 02:55:07 AM »

Mark132 and Ricerocket

I am totally impressed and blown away by what you have done with yo-yo's. I never was much good with a yo-yo but then after seeing what you guys make I wonder if what I was using could even be called a yo-yo. Thanks very much for showing them to us on MadModder. I am sure a few of the chaps will pick up a few tips from you to try on their own.

Cheers

Don

Bernd · « **Reply #27 on:** March 14, 2011, 10:12:58 AM »

Ya, double what Don said.

I had no idea there is such a diversity of Yo-yo's. I'm very impressed.

Glad both you guys became members and shared. Thank you very much.

Bernd

Powder Keg · « **Reply #28 on:** March 18, 2011, 11:02:28 AM »

Great job guys!!! I've been wanting to make a few Yoyo's. I drew up a couple a year or so ago. I just haven't had any time to make them yet. I wanted to make some out of acrylic rod. But haven't found any big enough yet. Thanks for sharing.

Brass_Machine · « **Reply #29 on:** March 18, 2011, 11:19:00 AM »

Quote from: Mark132 on March 14, 2011, 01:57:59 AM

Woohoo. Love seeing your work rice. Especially all in one place. Its hard as one person to explain the entirety of our yo-yo modding culture to the madmodder nation. glad you are here to back me up.

Very fine stuff... both of you do great work. I like to think of this site as modding culture period. Doesn't matter what it is... but how and why. I see the art in the mod itself.

Eric

Mark132 · « **Reply #30 on:** March 21, 2011, 01:42:51 AM »

Quote from: Powder Keg on March 18, 2011, 11:02:28 AM

Great job guys!!! I've been wanting to make a few Yoyo's. I drew up a couple a year or so ago. I just haven't had any time to make them yet. I wanted to make some out of acrylic rod. But haven't found any big enough yet. Thanks for sharing.

A friend makes fantastic production yo-yos by hand out of acryllic.

http://www.landonbalk.com/yoyos.html

Mark132 · « **Reply #31 on:** April 27, 2011, 01:38:06 AM »

A new project i've been finishing.
****WARNING LOTS OF PICS****

A boring 20$ plastic Duncan yo-yo (Freehand Zero)

boring out and facing the hub area

New Hubs!

Sizing to fit

Very tightly press fit

Tapped M4-.7 and interior bearing post cleared

Exterior bearing post cut.

"armor" inlay area taper recessed on compound slide

Exterior bearing post ("hubstack") cut from acryllic pen blank.

weightrim area cut

weight ring being cut to size

Weight ring attached via o-ring in a groove. slips on and off easily.

yo-yo half

yo-yo assembled

Interior bearing seat cut and silicone response groove cut and filled with silicone.

Bogstandard · « **Reply #32 on:** April 27, 2011, 04:23:52 AM »

I absolutely marvel at what you lads get up to.

How do you know what to do? Is it all guesswork, or are you following a proven formula that gives you what you want, or just a combination of both?

I really do admire your work, not only on the machining side of things, but how you come up with new ideas and put them into practise.

It's like taking a lump of tough old meat and turning it into a gourmet meal.

Bogs

Bernd · « **Reply #33 on:** April 27, 2011, 08:21:30 AM »

I have to ask the same as Bog's.

How do you do it?

Bernd

DaveH · « **Reply #34 on:** April 27, 2011, 09:57:06 AM »

Really nice

I haven't used a yo yo in 50 years,

quite fancy one now

DaveH

Brass_Machine · « **Reply #35 on:** April 27, 2011, 10:40:02 AM »

Quote from: Mark132 on April 27, 2011, 01:38:06 AM

A new project i've been finishing.
****WARNING LOTS OF PICS****

...

Bah! We love pics!

Very nice work!

Would love the same answers as Bogs and Bernd

Sent a PM btw..

Topos · « **Reply #36 on:** May 06, 2011, 10:16:58 AM »

Quote from: Mark132 on February 12, 2011, 03:39:38 PM

Thanks for all the kind words.
Just a bit more background and "research" on me.

i graduated from college in December with a B.S. in Mathematics. My senior research paper was about yo-yo tricks.
I have lots of information about modern tricks in it and a couple formulas that describe them.
http://www.yoyonashville.com/Seniorproject.pdf

Congratulations on your enjoyable thesis using Category/ Functors and Freyd's Allegories. I was laughed
at in 1959 when I predicted that Homotopy Theory, Category, and Topos would actually have practical
applications. ( e.g., Algebraic Theory of Machines, Foundation of Computer Science, Cognition, etc. ).

Thanks to you I can now say that they were indeed the YO-YOs!

Much success to you and best wishes.

riceburner · « **Reply #37 on:** December 01, 2011, 09:25:05 PM »

Does anybody have a drawing of the hub stack with bearings? I really would like to build a couple of yo-yo's for Christmas presents.

Thanks

s.r.

Mark132 · « **Reply #38 on:** December 02, 2011, 06:52:47 PM »

This is the basic quarter profile of a modern yo-yo. Most yo-yos are some variation of this profile. This one does not have the independent spinning side stacks.
the side "hubstacks" usually look like this.

the bearing is held by an o-ring in a groove. the ones pictured are add on parts for plastic yo-yos that use a hex bolt for an axle. Most aluminum yo-yos have the posts machined during production as a permanent fixture.
here is a tutorial on hubstack assembly.

The functionality of having hubstacks.

Hubstacks are not absolutely necessary to make a yo-yo. they are a neat new feature that lets you grab your yo-yo while it spins. online yo-yo stores sell hubstack parts: the orings, bearing and plastic gripper.
here:http://shop.yoyoexpert.com/category/10/Hub-Stacks

I'll see if I can get an actual cad drawing of the hubs. Hope this helps.

just found this vid. My lathe in action being used by team japan in the iron mod contest at the world yo-yo contest

AdeV · « **Reply #39 on:** December 02, 2011, 07:19:50 PM »

This is amazing stuff, thanks for sharing! Who knew there was so much technology & clever design in yo-yos!

If you wanted to make a yo-yo like the last one I used, you'd have to mount the two halves the other way around, and use a solid steel axle!

Kind of like this one:

Mark132 · « **Reply #40 on:** December 14, 2011, 09:23:38 PM »

Here is a job I did for a local kid. Took an oldish (1980s) Duncan Wheel (fixed steel axle). and modernized it to take an unresponsive large bearing and recessed silicone response.

tapped a 5-16 threaded insert in the caps for a 6-32 axle, then turned down to fit in the original axle hole.

The inner gap is faced flat.

Cut and drilled a stepped bearing seat spacer.

The spacer parted and placed near where it will live later.

the set of spacers, they look different but I think one just wasn't deburred from drilling yet.

The bearing sitting in the spacers

compared to a stock duncan bearing and stock spacer setup(left)

.
The spacer housing and response groove cut into the face of the yo-yo.

the spacer installed.

+bearing

both spacers + axle, ready for silicone response.

using a plastic spoon to put a concave recess in the silicone for best response.

should have gotten a final result playing photo. May take one later and post.

got it:

News:

Author Topic: Modding yo-yos (Read 33782 times)

Rob.Wilson