Author Topic: A Beginning  (Read 3572 times)

Offline jelman

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A Beginning
« on: March 01, 2011, 09:04:21 PM »
Hello.

My name is Jonathan.  I live in Brentwood in Essex.

I did a bit of metal work (as it was then called) up till the third form at school, but was required to do all academic subjects at O level and was not allowed to continue with anything practical.  For reasons that I cannot really explain, I have over the last couple of years become interested in learning how to make things out of metal.  I have been reading a fair bit (most of the material in the getting started in Model Engineering thread on HMEM) and a lot of stuff on both HMEM and this site. 

My youngest son did what is now called "resistant materials" at GCSE getting an A star (proud father moment), and has agreed to help and learn with me (on the proviso insisted on by his mum and me that it doesn't get in the way of his sixth form studies).

I am quite a cautious person and was looking at lathes for about three months, and then, a bit out of character, put a bid on a not much used Colchester Chipmaster on ebay (it was originally purchased new by the maintenance department of a shopping centre, and was put up for sale and not replaced when the machinist retired).  I ended up buying the lathe and so am now the somewhat startled and surprised owner of a huge lump of metal.  I guess I will find out just how interested I really am!

Since winning the bid, I have been frantically insulating my "workshop" and levelling the floor where I plan to install the lathe.  With some help from my wife, two of my sons and some friends (and the loan of a pallet truck from the maintenance department of the shopping centre that sold me the lathe) the lathe is now in the workshop, awaiting a visit from the electrician to plumb in the boxes I bought from Drives Direct in Nottingham.

I plan to spend the first few weeks just working through the manual and working out what all those fascinating levers and dials do and what all the other bits and bobs that came with the lathe might be for.

I will also try to join the Yahoo Chipmaster user's group, although at this stage I am a prospective rather than actual user.

I have joined here because I am a beginner and will need help and I very much like the attitude and ethos of your site (as well as being wowed by the amazing things you all make).  So if I may, I would like to make MadModder the place I come to to ask for instruction and help.

To begin as I hope to continue, may I please ask my first question (well since that was itself a question, I suppose I mean my second):

The installation section of the Chipmaster manual says that no special foundations or bolt holes are required, and that provided the floor is reasonably level and up to the weight, all that is needed is for three special rubber feet to be inserted in the relevant spaces.  Unfortunately, the lathe did not come with these special rubber feet.  I have found out that it is possible to purchase them, but they are expensive. 

It is one thing to spend money on an item that protects and enhances my lathe, quite another to waste it on something that is worse than useless.  My quandary arises because I have seen it suggested on a number of occasions that rubber feet are not the ideal support for a lathe.

My no doubt ignorant thinking is that I ought to support the lathe using something in the three holes designed for the rubber feet.  My reason is that although  I have done my best with the self-levelling compound and have bought a large sheet of mild steel to sit the lathe on, I doubt that if I put the lathe straight on the floor or on the sheet, the base of the cabinet and my flooring/steel would touch in all that  many places, and I fear that that could result in a twisted or flexed or under rotational tension bed (which I gather is to be avoided to the maximum extent possible) and like all beginners, I would like to get things as right as I can.

So my question is, should I just put the lathe on the concrete, should I put it on the steel sheet, should I buy the special rubber feet, should I use something else (hopefully less expensive) in the three holes, and if so, what.

Guidance would be very much welcomed.

Thank you. 

Jonathan

Offline ieezitin

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Re: A Beginning
« Reply #1 on: March 02, 2011, 12:48:00 PM »
Jelman.

Hello and welcome to your new lifelong learning extravaganza, like many on here I have been going this gig for a very long time and still learn something new everyday, what really is the plus is that your son wants a hand in it too that’s great we need fresh blood in this blue collar field.

Now your lathe,  there are volumes written on  just this one procedure alone and it important not to get carried away with this task. Paramount importance is the lathe be level two dimensionally (X,Y), the lighter models (ie bench top lathes, mini machines etc) have a tendency to flex and twist easily due to their lack of structure, heavy floor models (lathe which rests on a factory manufactured table or cabinet) are not as picky and are really your friend in the end due to weight and build (construction).

By the sounds of it you have a floor model with some weight that’s good and you have mentioned the floor is concrete ok so far so good this is what you need to aim for with your situation,  you don’t necessarily have to bolt but bolting maybe an advantage for the leveling process, each foot will require a shim block and or blocks ( or at least three will ) these are nothing more that little slabs of steel of different thicknesses like a set of auto feeler gages just square or rectangle, it could be anything as long as you have a wide range of thicknesses to buttress up your feet while leveling, they must be steel or some metallic compound the reason is they will not decompose and loose there integrity and compress like wood would.

The rubber is fine and some say its great for vibration purposes but not a given, I have my own 800lb lathe sitting on thick rubber feet with shims slotted on top only because my floor is 12” thick concrete and sometimes retains water and I did not want that water eating my feet or shim stock.

Through the leveling  process if you were to bolt through the foot and shim stack where ever that foots rests under pressure it will stay, so like I mentioned bolting would be an advantage.

Now we have the means for blocking and seating the lathe structure to the foundation you will need to level the beast, puritans will say you need a machinists level (highly sensitive spirit level) but since such a tool would cost three quarters of the purchase price of your lathe, get the most sensitive level you can afford, you can buy now these digital levels that give you angle readings for a really reasonable price and they are themselves of high accuracy and will do the trick.  Also this is a great item to have in your tool collection as it will be used for all your future machinery needs plus the old ladies picture hanging requirements.

The reasoning for leveling a lathe is to eliminate all side forces and irregular misalignments that will transmit its distortion into your work and may cause  damage to your machine.


The actual technique for leveling a lathe is posted on this forum and is widely written about on the net so 5 minuets of you searching will turn up the how to on it, all I want to add is that whatever procedure you choose really understand what your trying to achieve, as in the future your measurements or results may be off and this maybe a reason, but do not get bogged down too much with all the micro annalistic written tutorials on it the essence is simple straight and level in two dimensions(x-y).  I have drawn a sketch giving you the basics of what you are trying to do. On the sketch it shows what is the (X,Y) planes are, twist and camber, that’s it!. These are the right terminologies applying to all machine tools so now you know what we are all talking about.

It took me about three hours to level my lathe to get it tweaked in, this was a process of using the dial indicator, level and a test bar, (all of which you will learn through whatever tutorial you read), in fact just by installing the lathe you will learn a lot about machining and the essence of it, getting as close as you can will serve you well in the future.

All in all this is a fascinating rewarding hobby, its builds character and keeps the brain healthy, only as you dig deeper into it and need advice from forums like this will it come to you, keep it simple, don’t over analyze and enjoy.   Revel in your new adventure best of luck!!!!!   Anthony.
If you cant fix it, get another hobby.

Offline Brass_Machine

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Re: A Beginning
« Reply #2 on: March 02, 2011, 09:27:46 PM »
Hiya Jelman  :wave:

Welcome to the collective  :wave:

I hope Anthony (ieezitin) helped you out.

What do you want to make out of metal?

Eric
Science is fun.

We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.

Offline jelman

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Re: A Beginning
« Reply #3 on: March 03, 2011, 04:22:44 PM »
Thank you Anthony.  There is indeed a lot on the web about lathe levelling!  I think that I have understood you; I guess I will find out this weekend (if I get some time) to place the lathe where it is to live while in my stewardship.  I find one of life's greatest mysteries is knowing whether I understand what I think I understand.  One of the many things I am looking forward to as I explore this new hobby is putting that to the test!

A web search for anti-vibration pads found several suppliers of what look pretty much identical to the "special rubber feet" I was offered for the lathe (but at less than one third of the price) and some helpful advice from one of the suppliers has resulted in an order from me for three pads.  I am hoping they will be here by the weekend.

Thank you also to Eric and DKM.  Not only is the lathe a first venture, but this is only my second ever internet posting.  So it was not without some trepidation that I made my first posting and I am grateful for yours and, of course, Anthony's replies.

As to what I want to make out of metal, Eric, I guess I have several different goals.  First, I want me and my son to remain bodily intact (any machine that can cut metal can certainly do us damage); secondly, I want to learn and for both of us to have fun; thirdly, I want to make progress.  Of course, each time I see anything on this site, HMEM or many other engineering websites I think, "I want to be able to do that!", but right now, I would like to be able to get my lathe installed and reasonably level on the X and Y axis, to be able to understand a bit more about how it works, to be able to mount some material (I am seriously considering starting with cast lengths of melted candles and plastic bag) and try to parting off, turning, facing, knurling, threading and so on.  If I manage some of those I will be really pleased.

While we are waiting, my youngest son and I are trying the "coke can stirling" (but we are using beer cans).  IF we get it running, I  will use it as an excuse to work out how to post pictures or even a short video.

Thank you again to all three of you for your replies.

Jonathan

Offline andyf

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Re: A Beginning
« Reply #4 on: March 03, 2011, 05:13:07 PM »
Hi Jonathan, and welcome :wave: .

I'm not sure where your workshop is going to be, but if it's the garage remember that most garage floors slope down towards the doors (mine's about 1 in 50), which can get you off to a bad start with the levelling.

I'm not sure how well "machineable wax" would stand up to being gripped in a lathe chuck, but for practice you might consider PVC bar, which is pretty cheap (see http://www.directplasticsonline.co.uk/PVCRod/25mm/ for example). Turning has to be done at pretty low speed, but it's ideal for threading, which is a low-speed operation anyway for most of us.

Have fun!

Andy

 
Sale, Cheshire
I've cut the end off it twice, but it's still too short