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Author Topic: 90 degree V4 OHC  (Read 45975 times)

Offline NickG

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Re: 90 degree V4 OHC
« Reply #25 on: March 26, 2011, 03:19:14 AM »
Brilliant work on the heads doug, really nice and it looks like the dro's have transformed your mill. Considering it's a hybrid made from a drill press you've got excellent results from it  :thumbup:
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Offline jim

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Re: 90 degree V4 OHC
« Reply #26 on: March 26, 2011, 03:41:38 AM »
impresive work
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Offline dbvandy

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Re: 90 degree V4 OHC
« Reply #27 on: March 26, 2011, 09:15:26 PM »
Thanks for all the encouragement!  This engine has turned out to be a pretty complex animal.  Today I bored out two cylinders and mocked up the cam shafts and manifolds.   I will cut in the cooling fins after everything is bolted up tight.



I am going to make my own carburetor once she comes to life, but I am going to use a vapor carb to trouble shoot, so the intake manifold needs to flexible.  I mocked up the 1/2'' square bar to see how this might work.  I think I am going to do 2 carbs, but might do just one.



The cam supports will be cut out to as little as is needed to support the shafts and bearings.



The exhaust manifold will most likely be two separate pieces... maybe brass, maybe aluminum.



This pic gives you a bit of perspective on size.  When two of them are mounted on the block it is going to be massive....



More to come...

Doug

 
« Last Edit: March 27, 2011, 12:36:15 AM by dbvandy »
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Offline Brass_Machine

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Re: 90 degree V4 OHC
« Reply #28 on: March 27, 2011, 01:15:54 AM »
Finally caught up with this thread. Excellent work Doug. Unreal what you are doing with a modded drill press. Impressive.

Eric
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Offline raynerd

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Re: 90 degree V4 OHC
« Reply #29 on: March 27, 2011, 03:19:16 AM »
Fantastic work Doug.... you are flying through these engine builds!! You seem to build more in a few days than I do ge through in a month  :bow: :bow:

This is just a stunning build - will you be drawing up plans when you get it running....could be my next engine if I get my Webster running  :headbang:
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Offline dbvandy

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Re: 90 degree V4 OHC
« Reply #30 on: March 27, 2011, 02:08:46 PM »
Quote from: craynerd on March 27, 2011, 03:19:16 AM
Fantastic work Doug.... you are flying through these engine builds!! You seem to build more in a few days than I do ge through in a month  :bow: :bow:

This is just a stunning build - will you be drawing up plans when you get it running....could be my next engine if I get my Webster running  :headbang:

What do you mean "IF" you get the Webster running...  she WILL run!!!!!!

I am really interested in how the $26 CDI unit works.  I am just about ready to order one to see for myself.


Doug
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Offline raynerd

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Re: 90 degree V4 OHC
« Reply #31 on: March 27, 2011, 02:25:07 PM »
haha, you have more confidence than me !!

My CDI unit was apparently shipped the day after I made the order..I just hope it arrives safely. Are you thinking of drawing up plans for your engine?

Chris
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Offline j45on

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Re: 90 degree V4 OHC
« Reply #32 on: March 27, 2011, 02:31:13 PM »
Looking great so far  :thumbup: I cant believe how quick you build  :bugeye: I'm watching with great interest  :nrocks:

 :offtopic: I wish we had cherry coke zero in the UK  :(
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Offline NickG

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Re: 90 degree V4 OHC
« Reply #33 on: March 27, 2011, 04:32:52 PM »
Wow -  I didn't realise it had 4 valves per cyl. before don't think I've seen much like this on a model before.  :bow:

Nick
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Offline BlueRock

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Re: 90 degree V4 OHC
« Reply #34 on: March 27, 2011, 04:45:29 PM »
What a great looking build you have going! I am feeling inspired
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Offline dbvandy

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Re: 90 degree V4 OHC
« Reply #35 on: March 27, 2011, 06:09:23 PM »
Quote from: NickG on March 27, 2011, 04:32:52 PM
Wow -  I didn't realise it had 4 valves per cyl. before don't think I've seen much like this on a model before.  :bow:

Nick

Nick,

It definitely ups the complexity of the build.  Lots more to go wrong with dimensions a seals, but I think everything is within tolerance o that it will run, just the parts will have to be marked so that they go back the same way and fit.   As I did each head, I refined and fine tuned the dimensions, so they are not exactly the same, so valve clearances and mounting holes are not exactly in the same place on all four heads, very close, but not exact.

Quote from: craynerd on March 27, 2011, 03:19:16 AM
Fantastic work Doug.... you are flying through these engine builds!! You seem to build more in a few days than I do ge through in a month  :bow: :bow:

This is just a stunning build - will you be drawing up plans when you get it running....could be my next engine if I get my Webster running  :headbang:

Chris,  I will draw some up after I get this running and perfected, but it will be a while.  Right now I am designing this engine by staring at it for long periods of time and then dreaming about it all night.  Most likely I will build a second engine as I draw up the plans to make sure it all goes together correctly.

Quote from: j45on on March 27, 2011, 02:31:13 PM
:offtopic: I wish we had cherry coke zero in the UK  :(

one of my all time favorites...  really good with rum....

Doug
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Offline dbvandy

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Re: 90 degree V4 OHC
« Reply #36 on: March 27, 2011, 06:53:10 PM »
Quote from: NickG on March 26, 2011, 03:19:14 AM
Brilliant work on the heads doug, really nice and it looks like the dro's have transformed your mill. Considering it's a hybrid made from a drill press you've got excellent results from it  :thumbup:

the only real problem with the "hybrid" is the stiffness of the column.  I am looking for some 65mm tube that is stiffer, but it does a very good job and is probably close to the stiffness of a mini mill.  The table is not mounted directly to the base, so it does not move at all....

It is a HUGE step up from my tiny 8 inch and the compound x-y vise where I did the Webster and the Otto.  One day I will move up to a Bridgeport or a mill drill.  I am leaning toward the mill drill because it is a bit more portable if I ever move...

Doug
« Last Edit: March 28, 2011, 10:58:50 AM by dbvandy »
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Offline dbvandy

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Re: 90 degree V4 OHC
« Reply #37 on: March 30, 2011, 01:24:14 AM »
I did a little design on the V4 today.  The cam mount blocks are roughed out and mounted, most of the stock will be removed, just enough to support the bearings will be left.  



Now to tap the cylinders and make some gaskets so I can start mounting things permanent.  I also started to get a feel for how the belt will run and drive the cams and distributor.  Sprockets are $15 each...  times 5 for the 30s and one 15 tooth...  $90 worth of gears...  I will be cutting my own... might buy one, then copy it.  The belt will be about 35 inches long.

More to come...

Doug

« Last Edit: March 30, 2011, 01:30:48 AM by dbvandy »
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Offline saw

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Re: 90 degree V4 OHC
« Reply #38 on: March 30, 2011, 04:34:08 AM »
Very nice, good work  :clap: :clap: :thumbup:
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Offline BiggerHammer

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Re: 90 degree V4 OHC
« Reply #39 on: March 30, 2011, 07:13:14 PM »
Very nice indeed and moving along very quick pace. Keep it up and this thing will be running in no time.
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Offline dbvandy

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Re: 90 degree V4 OHC
« Reply #40 on: March 30, 2011, 08:49:26 PM »
Quote from: Da_Kengineer_Meister on March 30, 2011, 01:44:16 AM
Zowwie!   :beer:  This is coming along quickly!  Very cool!

Probably a dumb question to those who work on engines a lot but since I'm not one of those guys, I'll go ahead and ask.  The four large circles at the front on the ends of the rods...?  These circles are place holders that roughly represent pulleys for a serpentine timing belt that will keep all the cams synchronised?  I'm guessing yes but thought to ask...

Exactly!  I put a hole in some body washers just to get a feel for how it will look with the pulleys on the front.  The real pulleys will be about an inch thick.  It will be a toothed belt because timing is needed, the cams must turn 1/2 as much as the crank.

I am divided on whether to go with a .080 pitch MXL belt like I did not the Otto, or a larger .200 pitch XL.  The 200 will look beefier, so I might go that route.

Doug
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dkyfn

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Re: 90 degree V4 OHC
« Reply #41 on: March 31, 2011, 01:02:12 AM »
Hi Doug,
It  is all a matter of how much force you want  to transmit.  0.080 (MXL) is really light stuff.  I use this with very small electric motors on my smaller projects and it can  be over torqued pretty easily unless I implement  velocity profiling.
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Offline dbvandy

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Re: 90 degree V4 OHC
« Reply #42 on: March 31, 2011, 10:29:37 AM »
Quote from: dkyfn on March 31, 2011, 01:02:12 AM
Hi Doug,
It  is all a matter of how much force you want  to transmit.  0.080 (MXL) is really light stuff.  I use this with very small electric motors on my smaller projects and it can  be over torqued pretty easily unless I implement  velocity profiling.


I used an .080  on the Otto engine and it seemed to work pretty well, driving the single cam did not seem to put too much torque on the belt.  I will be driving 4 cams with this one with 8 contacts, so I think I will go for the beefier 3/8 inch wide XL which is .200 pitch.  It is going to look like a blower belt...

Doug
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Offline dbvandy

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Re: 90 degree V4 OHC
« Reply #43 on: March 31, 2011, 10:48:00 AM »
Well, I tapped 31.5 of the 32 6-32 holes successfully yesterday for the cylinders, 4 for each head and 4 each to mount them to the block....  don't you just hate it when the tap grabs a chip all the way at the bottom of the hole and you hear that "crrreannnk"  sound????  

Bad words were said...

ugh...


Doug
« Last Edit: March 31, 2011, 12:15:52 PM by dbvandy »
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Offline Bernd

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Re: 90 degree V4 OHC
« Reply #44 on: March 31, 2011, 11:42:16 AM »
Sorry to hear thar Doug.

For a while ther I was wondering what 1/2 6-32 thread is.  :palm:   :doh: Then I realized reading further what you meant.  :(

Time for a little, what is it, alm or something of that sort to melt the tap out.?

Bernd
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Offline dbvandy

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Re: 90 degree V4 OHC
« Reply #45 on: March 31, 2011, 12:24:32 PM »
Quote from: Bernd on March 31, 2011, 11:42:16 AM
Sorry to hear thar Doug.

For a while ther I was wondering what 1/2 6-32 thread is.  :palm:   :doh: Then I realized reading further what you meant.  :(

Time for a little, what is it, alm or something of that sort to melt the tap out.?

Bernd

It is a blind hole, so I can't even drive it through and build up the hole with weld and re-drill and tap...  I tried to grind it out with a diamond tip dremel bit, worked some, but it was about a 1/2 inch of tap in the hole.  I even tried to heat it up with the torch to soften it up then drill it out, HSS was still no match for it.

It is one that is one the bottom and the other 3 will hold the cylinder tight, so I might just let it go this time.  It's not worth rotating the cylinder 45 deg and drilling and tapping 8 new holes.

 :bang:

I try to find my happy place....

 :med:

Doug

« Last Edit: March 31, 2011, 12:27:46 PM by dbvandy »
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Offline dbvandy

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Re: 90 degree V4 OHC
« Reply #46 on: March 31, 2011, 03:50:00 PM »
Quote from: Da_Kengineer_Meister on March 31, 2011, 02:36:54 PM

Probably better to find a small mold or tooling shop because a larger place like Atlanta EDM looks like the kind of place that is going to charge through the nose because your job is to small for them.  Guess you could call and find out...

Its nice to have good friends like that with the tooling needed to do the job...

Funny that you should say Atlanta EDM... I had them pulled up and was about to call...  they were too busy to help little old me, and would probably charge a ton just to do this one hole, but did give me another place to go.

Where this one is broken is not critical and not visual, it is on the bottom of the cylinder and there are 3 other bolts to hold the cylinder to the block plate.  I think I will just fill the hole in the aluminum plate with alumiweld, re-drill smaller and tap the block plate, then put in a short dummy bolt to fill the hole.  The only ones that will ever know it was like that are the ones reading this post...  maybe I will rotate and re drill some day...

I need to buy some better taps, I guess....

Doug
« Last Edit: March 31, 2011, 04:18:00 PM by dbvandy »
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Offline dbvandy

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Re: 90 degree V4 OHC
« Reply #47 on: April 07, 2011, 09:48:36 PM »
I did some work on the V4 today.... two of the cam supports are drilled and shaped.  Two more to go then I start working on the block and crank.





The valves and cams will be done after the block, pistons, and connecting rods are done, in other words, after I figure out how I want to do them... and feel like working on all 16 of them for a REEEAAALLLYYY long time...

More to come...

Doug
« Last Edit: April 07, 2011, 09:54:50 PM by dbvandy »
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Offline saw

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Re: 90 degree V4 OHC
« Reply #48 on: April 08, 2011, 03:13:00 AM »
Looking good  :clap:
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Offline dbvandy

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Re: 90 degree V4 OHC
« Reply #49 on: April 10, 2011, 01:06:38 AM »
Made some progress on the V4 16V Quad OHC today...  It's starting to look like something and not quite as huge as I thought it was going to be... still big, just not huge...

The washers are an approximation of the size of the timing pulleys.  They will be about 5/8 inch thick with a 3/8 hub turned down to about 3/4 inch.





The flywheel is just roughed out...  most of the middle will go away.



Still designing the intake manifold.  If I go with 4 carbs, it will be easier to build them (4) but a pain to sych them all up, so I think not...



more to come...

Doug

« Last Edit: April 10, 2011, 12:16:38 PM by dbvandy »
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