Folding Electric Guitar

[Bogstandard]

Early on last year, I started a project that at the time had to be kept a bit of a secret. Even now I can't go into full details, but I have been given permission to show these few pics as a taster and maybe I can answer a few questions, as long as they don't go into too technical details.

I was approached by a gentleman (my man), to see if I could make a folding electric guitar. The reason being, if it could be made short enough, it could be carried as hand luggage rather than into the freight hold, where they sometimes get damaged. There were a few criteria, the main one being that it remains in tune, or very close when it is reassembled.

There are folding guitars on the market, and fairly cheap, around the 200 squid and upwards mark, but they all usually suffer from the same problem, going out of tune easily, plus of course, most of them look absolutely grotesque, some just looking like a plank of wood with a piano hinge in the middle.

This one isn't aimed at the mass market, but the more 'up market' kind of guitarist. I was in fact talking to a new aquaintance of mine last week, an old school rock guitarist from Thin Lizzie, Pilot and Bad finger fame, and he wants to give it a good try out. That just might open a few more doors for us. I met him because he had heard thru my friends that I do a bit of precision machining work, and because he had an on stage accident which stopped him performing live, he has gone back to his old profession of a camera lens wizard, and wants me to do a bit of R&D plus make a few parts for him.

So anyway, enough of the life history, lets get to telling you what happened. My 'man' had a few ideas, but basically, I had free reign to do the job, so I did. Planning and measuring came well before cutting.

Rather than waste a perfectly good 'banjo', as Peter (HS93) called it, one was purchased off eblag for less than 40 squid, and I duly set to work. It was stripped down to the last nut, bolt and bit of brown stuff.
This one shows the first stage, the back with the sticky out bit folded down. Notice also, even at this early stage, I realised that the string tweakers wouldn't be needed, so I just cut them off. That got rid of 6" in one easy action.




A front view. This was well within my man's specification, so I just carried on cutting and making.




There are well over 100 shots that I took of the complete build, but unfortunately those are the ones you don't get to see.

This is the finished banjo, showing the amount of work that needed to be done to keep the plonky string things under control, just so that when it was finally assembled, it stayed in tune. It is tuned by the row of knobs on the bottom of the body.




This is the front view, looking just like a normal guitar, except there is no tuning mechanism at the top of the neck and the sticky out thing that shakes the strings is missing.




Just a few bits of info.

Nothing could be made or fitted that would be attracted by a magnet, so it was all made from aluminium, brass, bronze and stainless steel, the fasteners as well.

All the woodcutting was done on my mill using razor sharp brand new tungsten tooling. The finishes came out perfect.

There is a lot more highly detailed work that is hidden, hence the lack of any more photos, plus it protects a few of my little secrets.


The things some of us get up to beggars belief.


Bogs

[ieezitin]

Well done John!. Goes to show what the old grey matter can do when necessity comes a knocking.

Alas I think the sex pistols had you beat by thirty years. They flung there rigs around and made collapsible units on stage in front of your eyes I seem to remember….. but they had a tuning problem too after they were finished.

Hope the venture works out for you both. Again a nice job looks real pleasing to the eye.


Happy days…..    Anthony.

[Bogstandard]

I forgot to mention, ten months spare time work.

Bogs

[spuddevans]

Well done that man!!

A few years ago I built a couple of guitars from itch scratch, but I didnt have the machinery then to build the metal hardware, had to buy those bits. Knowing the tensions that are involved in a guitar, I am impressed with the engineering involved in making a folding version.

May I ask if the customer (your 'man') is happy with the tone of the instrument? and also did you keep the original electronics/pickups?


Tim

[Bogstandard]

Tim,

All the electriconical bits and electric string that came off, went back on, and he says that the tone has changed a little, he reckons for the better. I don't understand things like that, he just says it is not as harsh as it used to be. It started life as a reasonably price Yamaha jobbie. But to me that means nothing, I just modded it using well known engineering practices and a little basic guitar knowledge that I picked up. The only things that didn't go back on were the string tensioners.

BTW, it is almost the same weight as the original, only a few ounces heavier.

It has been back and forwards to the continent a few times now, always in the cabin as hand luggage, and he uses it when living in hotel rooms, to save him having to go out drinking, just practising for a couple of hours each evening. He has had one fine string break in all that time, but he reckons it was something to do with how it was twisted around the ferrule that is on the end of each string.

I had great difficulty working out how to hold all the string stresses in check. Eventually, every screw that should have gone into wood had a dedicated brass bush epoxied into the brown stuff, and the wood screws replaced with metric threaded SS ones. You can see some of the top hat ones in the recess in second picture, they were for taking screws that came from the other side from the tensioning plates, hence the big top hat flanges, to spread the load over a larger area.

I hope that explained it OK.


John

[mike os]

nice job Bogs

[spuddevans]

and he says that the tone has changed a little, he reckons for the better. I don't understand things like that, he just says it is not as harsh as it used to be.

Just from the pics posted, it looks like the neck-to-body joint is more rigid and secure than the normal method (on mass-produced reasonably priced guitars ) of 4 fairly thin woodscrews thru a thin metal plate, so I would think that would add a more sustained quality to the tone.

It started life as a reasonably price Yamaha jobbie. But to me that means nothing, I just modded it using well known engineering practices and a little basic guitar knowledge that I picked up. The only things that didn't go back on were the string tensioners.

That's a good thing, most tuning problems on the more reasonably priced guitars are caused by the tuners, an easy and well-worth upgrade for for suchlike guitars is to buy a decent set of tuners.

BTW, it is almost the same weight as the original, only a few ounces heavier.

That's very impressive 

I hope that explained it OK.

Indeed it has, thank you for showing and sharing.


Tim

[John Rudd]

the sticky out thing that shakes the strings is missing.
Bogs

and is called a Whammy bar.....As used by the venerable Hank Marvin....  ( I'm a closet Shads fan and have a red Fender Strat just like his.....

Nice work Bogs....

[Bogstandard]

Thanks gents.

John,

I normally remember things, but sometimes I have lapses and can't remember the correct names, so I usually put the first descriptive thing that comes to mind. It saves having to stop the post while I go on searchabout for the correct term.

In fact, the plate it mounted on was one of the more difficult fixes, as you know the plate is loose, but just can't be screwed down tight because it has an angle underneath it, so a special very thin tapered shim had to be made so that it sat perfectly flat.

At least you understood what I meant.


John

[Dean W]

Quite interesting, John.  You do get up to some diverse projects in your shop.
Maybe someday we can see some of the construction pics, (after the patent has gone through?).  I think they
would be a good insight to how you figure these things out, which in itself is a good teaching tool.
Thanks for the pics!  Looks great, BTW.

Dean

[BiggerHammer]

Just WOW!    Very nice work Sir, very nice indeed.

[saw]

 

[Bogstandard]

I'm really glad that a few of you enjoyed looking at what I get up to.

Yes Dean, I do get up to some unusual little projects, always have and most probably always will. I think it is because, thru the grapevine of long known friends and aquaintancies, I come into contact with a lot of, I wouldn't class as unusual, but different types of people who have a need of my services. One thing leads to another type of thing, and the word does get about, even internationally. People on here only see a small percentage of the jobs I do, most are just quickies that maybe only take an hour or so, but fulfill that persons need, where going elsewhere it would be rejected offhand because it would not be profitable enough for the machinist or shop to carry out.

Because they know I will always give my all to the job, no matter how unusual the request. If I can get it done, then fine, if I have total and utter failure, then also OK, but at least I gave it a go. I will tackle almost anything as long as it is legal. Plus I don't do it for the money, in fact most jobs I do, as long as I am not out of pocket, the normal charges are just return postage, I do it for the love of doing something unusual, and to help friends out. If I had charged the basic hourly rate for building the banjo, it would have come to many thousands of pounds, but as it was, no charges involved at all, I did it more for the challenge, and of course, because of it, I now have a new, very intelligent friend, who, if he does his job right, we might make a few pennies out of it, as he has done with all his other patent jobs, if we don't, I'm not all that bothered, I got all my enjoyment designing and making it, and he has ended up with a dream he could never have hoped to get done elsewhere.

In my little world, money isn't everything. Of course I have been bitten a few times, but they soon learned that if they do bite, because they came to me thru a grapevine, or personal invitation, they are classed as outcasts, not only in my little circle of friends, but word soon gets about and they end up with absolutely no help from anywhere.
A good example was the refurbish I did on a classic model steam engine. He tried to make large amounts of money out of my efforts, but by the time he had been destroyed on a couple of web sites, he ended up, as far as I know, a complete pariah.

John

[GWRdriver]

and is called a Whammy bar.....

also called a tremelo or vibrato bar.

[arnoldb]

Very well done indeed John; great result!

From some personal experience with guitars (I once tried to learn to play them, but found engineering is easier on my fingertips and ears), I know there's quite a bit of force pulling across the neck, so kudos to your engineering skills.
And the method you have adopted for adjusting the strings is really neat!

Kind regards, Arnold

[AdeV]

Very nice John, as you know I saw one of the bits "in production", and it looked very complicated... 

I still don't quite understand what happens to the strings when you fold it, and why they wouldn't go out of tune.... but, then, I haven't touched a guitar in 30 years, and never did make a tune on one...

[Bogstandard]

Hi Ade,

Where the cheapo ones fail, is that they still retain the rotary tuning spindles, where the strings pile up on themselves. If you can imagine when they are slackened, they can very easily unwind slightly, thru spring tension, and when retightened by bringing the two parts straight again, the strings can easily relay themselves into a different pattern on the spindle, so losing tune.

Before anyone comes in stating that using a clamp across the strings will stop that, I will tell you now, it doesn't, it was tried over and over again with tighter and tighter tensions and it stiill couldn't stop them relaying themselves into a different coilshape. Just as they start to become tensioned, they just move slightly. It could be done by using solid bars to trap the strings between, but they would damage them beyond use.

On the expensive ones, they go for a drum type system on the bottom of the body that keeps tension on the strings all the time, even when folded.

I can't go into detail about how mine works, sorry.


John

[Brass_Machine]

That is a very unique and clever build. I am very impressed with how it turned out. I hope the patent bit works out for you.

Eric

[raynerd]

When I was a student I worked in a local guitar shop at weekends. We held a good range of guitars and over the 3-4 years I worked there I only ever came across one folding guitar, it was accustic acutally and it was an absolute pile of .... !! We use to sell a few of the small body travelling guitars and we definately recommended them in preference to any folding guitar from our experience!

It is funny you used a Yamaha. I`m not to bad on the old Electric but the chap I use to work with was immense. During our free time when the shop was dead we use to have to tune them and just give them a "test". Out of everything he had to offer, Ibanez Gems, Strats, Les Pauls... he always went for a mid-low budget Yamaha -  sounded pretty good but played better than any of the expensive ones!

Interesting project ... I still have a block of wood in my workshop that I had glued and plained about a year ago in preparation to cutting an electric body from!  You have inspired me... maybe I`ll have to make it into a folder!!

[madjackghengis]

Hi John, that is a truly incredible job you've done there.  I truly hope you are able to lay some of the details out in public, my violin teacher would very likely be at me to do the same job for him, as he is active in a couple bands, and travels very much, including across the pond, periodically.  I've done quite a bit of work on various guitars and other instuments for him, in exchange for lessons, with his ideas musically, and my skills with wood and metal meshing nicely.  He is incredibly talented, and wishes to own and play just about any stringed instrument, and some others as well.  I never thought of such a thing, but I'm certain he'd be intrigued, and I'll have him look in on this post.  Is there any thread of when you been doing this?    Cheers, Jack

[Bogstandard]

Chris, have a go at making one. Unfortunately I won't be able to give you many pointers yet.

No Jack, what you see is it.

Maybe later, you will be able to see all the little bits 'n bobs.


John

[Stilldrillin]

John.

That's beautiful! 

David D

[sorveltaja]

What can be said? just wonderful job, Bogs.

Bit of an offtopic, but if one wants to start building/modifying an electric guitar, do yourself a favor, and start with cheap and crappy one, just to get familiar, what prevents it to be an enjoyably played instrument. If all electric components are count out, mostly it is the neck, frets, saddle, and/or tuning hardware, that makes the bugger even impossible to tune correctly.

Look for guitar, that has preferably a maple neck, as it is rather stable material. And definitely worth some work.

Check if the frets are equally thick. If they aren't, maple/rosewood fretboard is bumpy, so frets should be removed, and fretboard sanded/machined straight.

Might sound easy, but then comes truss rod, that (should) keep the neck straight under the tension of strings.

Just my two offtopic cents .

[Bogstandard]

I am now able to give a lot more details out on this build, but not all.

But a little note about the testing that has been going on. Since it has been built, and played almost every day since, three strings have broken, and in each case it was the end of the string around the ferrule untwisting itself, so that has been put down to string failure because of bad manufacture. It keeps perfect tune most time it is folded, and if one string does go out of tune, it is only by a minute amount, so it looks like the tuning system I used is working rather well. My man has now bought another guitar, exactly the same as the one I modified, and he states that the modified one sounds a lot more mellow and better than the original, most probably because the whole set up is a lot more rigid.

So I can now show roughly how I went about it.

The first thing that needed to go was the tuning mechanism, and was easily chopped off on the bandsaw. No turning back now.




After a little work on the mill, there was a wooden spigot left over that the new string holding head could be fitted.




You can see from this shot how the string is now held, back to front, the tuning will be done from the other end, to be shown in a later episode.




A little more decorative work was done on the head, and by use of pins and Loctite, brass side cheeks were fitted.




Once well bonded together, I could get on with blending and bling. The black inserts were made as a feature, but also to give a little more adhesion to strengthen things up. I could have made the inserts almost any colour, as all they are is a tiny drop of felt tip ink mixed in with the 24 hour epoxy to fill up the recess.

Also notice the screwed pin. This goes into a threaded hole in the LH brass face and goes thru all the string ferrules to eventually into a locating hole in the RH brass cheek. This is to stop the strings jumping out of position when the guitar is folded.

So that is the basic head finished.




Except for a little bling. Engine turning is a straightforward and easy process but does in fact serve two purposes. The first is that it looks good to the layman, and secondly, once it is done, even though it will tarnish, it doesn't show fingerprints as a polished surface does.




Mounted front, and the flash makes it look terrible. In normal lighting it looks perfectly smooth and highly polished.




Mounted back.




So that was the first part I made, next I will be showing how I got around the neck with it's folding problems.



Bogs

[z3t4]

Magnificent stuff, John. Thanks for sharing.

I'm sure you're aware, but for those that aren't the most well-known 'headless' guitars are made by Steinberger. Loads of stuff on't t'Interweb.
Did you put a relatively chunky bit at the head end to help the balance (having lost the machine heads there)? I tried a headless Steinberger a couple of times and it always felt really strange because the balance was all wrong.

Must go and look up 'engine 'turning'.

Regards,

John.