Author Topic: a new flame eater, just to be different  (Read 18549 times)

lordedmond

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Re: a new flame eater, just to be different
« Reply #25 on: April 07, 2011, 02:31:43 AM »
Jack

I may have missed something but which way is the relief valve,  valve seat at the bottom I think



Stuart

Offline madjackghengis

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Re: a new flame eater, just to be different
« Reply #26 on: April 07, 2011, 09:17:31 AM »
Hi Stuart, the relief valve starts as a center drilled hole from the top of the head, centered front to back, so the small tip of the center drill is all that pierces the port, and does so in the taper section.  The angle of the center drill makes for a seat for the ball, it being about .112, with the body of a #1 center drill being .125.  I then drilled down most of the way with about a .140 drill, leaving about .100 in of the center drill body hole intact, to keep the ball in tight, but to allow it plenty of room to let built up pressure out on the return stroke, my testing initially having the ball fly about three feet in the air from the pressure, and fortunately found.  I then put the head in the mill vise cylinder side up, put a .042 drill in, lined it up on the hole where the center drill tip pierced the tapered port, and then drilled through the head, above where it seals with the cylinder, but below the edge, through the back side to the relief hole, then just about .030 in into the front side, so the pin which is going in the hole will be captive once the head was bolted in place.  The ball seats very well in the taper part of the center drilled hole, and holds a vacuum when the crank is turned backwards, but easily relieves pressure instead of the valve having to flap, and the pressure built up blowing out the flame, or at least causing it to flutter and interfering with its steadiness.  I've seen similar ideas with a port made, and a leaf of spring steel over it, as a reed valve, and these can be in any orientation, and hidden as well, as I've heard in some engines I've watched on u-tube, but couldn't see.
    I've found the initial start up with alcohol, always leaves lots of condensed water, both inside the cylinder, and on the valve surface, which makes for lots of friction, or strong sticking of the valve, and in the cylinder, makes an emulsion with such oil as is there, that makes for lots of piston friction.  In washing out the cylinder with WD-40 first, it washes out what old heated oil was there, leaves some solvent in the cylinder, and disolves most of any sticky oil, eliminating the extra "stiction", while the remaining solvent vaporizes very easily, and adds to the initial power of start up, helping the engine to start off with some speed, and build up enough heat to keep water vapor from condensing, and forming the sludge.
    I'm not sure if there will be as much water vapor from the butane, as there is from alki, I'm hoping not, but if there is, I will continue to pre-clean with WD, as it has been good  on both of my larger cylinder engines.  My Duclos "flame sucker" runs well with a bronze piston, a 360 brass cylinder, a bronze valve, and occasional take down and scribbling with a pencil for graphite lubrication.  Waiting too long on this means scoring of both cylinder and piston, but rubbing down the piston with very old 600 wet or dry, and a six by six inch rolled up piece of the same, rolled tight, dropped in the cylinder and allowed to expand, and used just to take off the tops of the scoring, about two minutes overall, and then the scribbling inside the cylinder and outside the piston, means it has another twenty or thirty minutes of good running.  Scribbling with the engine assembled can keep it together for weeks, but forgetting means the engine will be running great and then suddenly stop dead, and it's better dealt with before that.
    I'm pretty hot on the check valve idea, I think a lot of engines on shelves would possibly run with this addition.  It completely changed the feel of this newest engine, it just needs to be kept washed clean or the ball will stick. :poke: :beer:  hope that clarifies it somewhat, Jack

Offline cfellows

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Re: a new flame eater, just to be different
« Reply #27 on: April 07, 2011, 11:19:40 AM »
The relief valve does make a huge difference.  Runs a lot better.  I may have missed it, but what was the diameter of the check ball?

Chuck

lordedmond

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Re: a new flame eater, just to be different
« Reply #28 on: April 07, 2011, 11:54:38 AM »
Thanks Jack

Make it like a clack then to blow out seals on the suck


Stuart

Offline NickG

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Re: a new flame eater, just to be different
« Reply #29 on: April 08, 2011, 04:35:36 PM »
Jack,

Wow - you've been busy! I like the fact that you've shown continuous improvement through all your designs of flame lickers. Using the best bits from other designs and your findings. When I first saw the still pictures I thought to myself "what is he doing", as you'd proven it was best to make the cam close the port, I had forgotten you said you would make the valve lift upwards in one of your previous postings or PMs! Great idea. The valve is more robust than the reed type and the little bits of graphite that wear off will help lubricate the engine, cast iron and cast iron is probably the best way to go, as shown in your previous experiments and now the pressure relief valve. Interesting results you got on that - I'm guessing it helps prevent the flame being blown around by the excess pressure pushed out. Running absolutely brilliantly there.  :thumbup:

I also like your method of doing the big end, I thought that was one of the most fiddley bits of poppin, but the way you did it soldering the two bits together then bringing it to size etc looked much easier and a better job.

Nick
Location: County Durham (North East England)

Offline arnoldb

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Re: a new flame eater, just to be different
« Reply #30 on: April 09, 2011, 12:05:33 PM »
Well done Jack on a very informative and innovative build  :thumbup:.
I've been following along but wasn't posting a lot of late.

Kind regards, Arnold

Offline madjackghengis

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Re: a new flame eater, just to be different
« Reply #31 on: April 09, 2011, 01:04:56 PM »
The relief valve does make a huge difference.  Runs a lot better.  I may have missed it, but what was the diameter of the check ball?

Chuck
Hi Chuck, I believe the ball miked out at .112, but I'm not sure, it's metric, and it has working clearance on the body hole left by the #1 center drill, which has a body diameter of .125 and probably makes a .127 or so hole, with a nice taper seat somewhere just above breaking through the taper in the port.
    Thanks for the comments, Arnold, and all, I am trying to do what a lot of other people are doing, seeing a need for new ideas in power production, and knowing these were the predecessors of internal combustion engines.  I don't like the fact a bunch of bureaucrats, who would have a hard time giving proper directions to bathrooms, are directing funding to "green projects", as if they were capable of discerning what is truly promising, when it has always been people just like us, playing around with the ideas we inherit, and with our own twists, who have always been the productive types who have put technology in the hands of the world.
   I know each and every currently "subsidized" green technology has been around for more than a century, alcohol was used for fuel centuries ago, windmills have been doing good work for more than three hundred years, and solar cells were only half as efficient in 1890 as they are today, and electric cars held the land speed record in the 20's, so I think it is far better for people like us to examine our ideas in such forums as this, freely share ideas and expand each other's knowledge, because we are far more likely to find a better idea than those who keep their hand out for a government subsidy, and we are far better capable of noting when it is just interesting, and not profitable, than those who depend on subsidies, and must produce something, anything, to keep getting paid, whether it works or not.  After all, is it not we, who have held these jobs and made the world turn while we work, despite the demands and weight of governments?  In my view, this is where the real action is.  I just wish we could all get together from time to time and share a beer or two, and enjoy the company, the forum is only second best in that way. :beer: :hammer:  Cheers, and thanks for commenting, learning is something we need to want, or we have no real purpose in life.  Jack

Offline dbvandy

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Re: a new flame eater, just to be different
« Reply #32 on: April 10, 2011, 01:32:15 AM »
How about a little video of it putt puttin.....   :zap:

Doug
"if you can pay someone to do it, then you can do it... just might cost more and take longer."  ~Grandpa Vanderbilt

Offline madjackghengis

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Re: a new flame eater, just to be different
« Reply #33 on: April 10, 2011, 09:33:18 AM »
Well Doug, I'll have to see how the video I shot yesterday came out, I went and put a "klacker" as the check ball was so accurately described, in the "oddball", but the reed valve is so flexible, it made no discernable difference in the way it ran or sounded, however I have plans to put a graphite valve on it, and then I believe it will be very effective.  My big problem is that engine runs so nice I want to spend far too much time just watching it, and not enough time building new engines.
   By the way, I miked out the check ball, it is .118, or three mm, and it seems to leave enough room for hot air to flow around it effectively.  The method of retaining it, by a pin drilled from the cylinder side of the head, makes it easy to remove the check ball, when servicing the engine, and is dead certain in retaining it so now it's back to another engine, or on to another engine.  It might be time for a high speed engine, one that is square or thereabouts.  Cheers  :beer: Jack