Author Topic: Welders & cutters  (Read 5189 times)

Offline Darren

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Welders & cutters
« on: November 26, 2008, 05:30:11 PM »
Some time ago I used to own a very nice mig welder. I used it a lot for many things but probably the biggest job was building a whole car from scratch. In fact it was two cars !! You could say that I became very confident with my welding after all that.
Alas as I mentioned elsewhere it was stollen along with all my other tools some time ago.

I'm hankering for another welder. I seem to remember at the time I bought my mig I did look into tig welders, but they were prohibitively expensive at that time.

Looking around, things have changed a bit. Tig units are now cheaper than mig. But another bonus it they now double up as plasma cutters too. That looks attractive, but what's the catch ??

Can anyone share their experiences please.....is tig that much harder to master, is it really better than mig?

Darren
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Offline PTsideshow

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Re: Welders & cutters
« Reply #1 on: November 26, 2008, 07:01:28 PM »
TIG is only a lot more practice,practice and more practice. I just bought a Miller Dynasty 200dx
have had a chance to hook it up or start practicing but. I have come to the conclusion that most will tell you that Only a select few are able to TIG which is a crock. If they let everybody know that anybody with practice could TIG then Their special status they hold in their mind would go away.
I would go the Miller site

Here is a link to one book and a new machine form miller.http://madmodder.net/index.php?topic=310.0

http://madmodder.net/index.php?topic=262.0

Here is the pages to their traning books that you can download PDF and print out.http://www.millerwelds.com/resources/bookspamphlets.html

As to the combined units I can't say that I have ever seen one and their is little mention of them on the 4 forums dealing with welding that I frequent.
To my mind I would think that it would just be more complicated to operate and repair and more could go wrong. But thats my uninformed opinion
glen
"The internet just a figment, of my imagination!' 
 
 There are only 3 things I can't do!"
Raise the Dead!
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and I'm working on the first two!
glen

Offline Alphawolf45

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Re: Welders & cutters
« Reply #2 on: December 13, 2008, 08:52:24 AM »
  I have had arc welder for 30 years and Mig welder for 10 years....Last year I got a big old brute of a TIG welder and now I can do the tiny welds that I never could before, is FANTASTIC for the times that I need to use it....I'd say that its easy to make TIG welds that suit my home workshop standards but I can understand why a person would need training to get good enough for critical high pressure work..... If I were down to just one welder I'd want the MIG...Second choice would be arc welder..I'd hate to have to TIG weld everything.......
.
buy one or more of everything and you cant go wrong...
I am not actually retired ,I merely find myself disabled by an intolerance for productive activity.

Offline Rog02

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Re: Welders & cutters
« Reply #3 on: December 13, 2008, 05:34:40 PM »
Notice the difference in opinions?

Welders are just like new cars.  Ask what type or brand and everyone gives their opinion, based on preference more than actual need.

First thing to do when selecting any new piece of shop equipment is to get a cup of coffee, set down, and do a thorough evaluation of the things you will expect the machine to do.  You are about to invest in a durable piece of equipment.  Think of it as an investment.  Take some time and think about it. 

In the case of a welder, what type of metal do you most frequently work with, what gauge and thicknesses do you work with, how much do you actually weld, and these are just the basic questions to ask yourself.  Be honest with yourself, don't let your ego take you into unneeded options and expense.  Be sure to include any realistic future needs as well.  Other things to be considered may be such things as electrical requirements, expense of consumables, and anything else particular to a given machine versus another machine. 

The next big opinion you will encounter is "What brand?".  Remember this is just like buying a car, Ford, GM, Chrysler or Other?  Welders come in a variety of flavors as well, with the main players being Red, Blue, and Yellow.  They all work, they all have their specific features, and they all have national networks for service and support.  One of the main things I look for is product support. 

This brings us to the "Where to buy?" question.  Welders are sold in all types of outlets these days, from the Internet suppliers, Big Box Stores, local hardware stores, and the specialized welding suppliers.  Remember when you purchase a welder from any of the first three there is no "in store" support.  Should you need parts or advice, you will be given a phone number to call and then it is a "best guess" scenario.  When and if considering a local welding supplier a few questions come to mind as well.  Is the company stable?  Does it offer service and support either on site or readily available?  Does it stock the required consumables for your particular needs?  Is the staff knowledgeable of the equipment and products they sell? 

Then of course there is always the "Used" option.  This is a bit of a gamble, on a good day and a nightmare many times.  Should you decide to go with the used option, the questions to ask are "Are parts still available for this machine?"  Should the answer be "No", then ask yourself if the machine is repairable using "Off The Shelf" components.  If the answer is still "no", then move on.  Is the machine under power and is the seller willing to let you test drive it?  If "Yes" then do so, put it through its paces including full amps.  If "no" then either move on or offer scrap price and no more.  "Why is the machine being sold?"  "Does the seller actually have any first hand experience with the machine, or is it a resale of an auction machine?"  Do your due diligence, don't be in a hurry, and if a deal is too good to be true, then it probably is.

Then off course is the real KICKER in the question department.  "What machine will best suit my needs?"

This is where you will get the most vehement opinions.  Care should be taken to re-evaluate your "Needs" list and compare it to the "Capability" list of each machine.  Remember that most TIG welders can also be used to stick weld with by simply adding a set of leads.  Not all TIG machines are capable of welding aluminum.  A MIG may or may not be capable of welding aluminum. 

Here is a list of the welding equipment available in my shop in descending order of importance.  This will vary from shop to shop dependent on the skills of the operator and the type of work done.

Oxygen/Acetylene Torches (Weld, braze, solder[hard and soft],cut, and heat.  I bought a set of torches first, before any of the electric welders.)
Miller Dynasty 200  (TIG and Stick weld, solder [hard and soft], and braze.  My most recent purchase a couple of years ago.)
Miller Dial-Arc HF  (TIG and Stick weld, solder [hard and soft], and braze.  I purchased this from a friend about 20 years ago.  I was going to replace it with the Dynasty but still keep it because the water cooled torch comes in handy and the HF is nice for stick welding.  The reason for wanting the Dynasty was that this thing weighs 450 pounds and is pretty immobile except with great effort.)
Miller 235 MIG  (tack welds, production work in mild steel fabrication.  I replaced another lighter duty machine with this some 20 years ago.  I used to MIG a lot but have since turned more and more to my TIGs as they offer me far more control.) 
Miller Thunderbolt 225 AC/DC  (more sentiment than need since the Dynasty and Dial-Arc both are capable of stick welding.  This was the first arc welder I bought some 35 years ago and it is still going strong)

Cutting and severing equipment, not including the shears.
Thermal Dynamics Plasma  Quickly became my favorite "hot axe" because it takes little to no time to set up and shut down.  It gives controlled cuts and work on both ferrous and non-ferrous metals.)
Oxygen/Acetylene Torches  (Need I say more?  Probably the most flexible and yet under rated welding method in the shop.Though I no longer use the cutting torch as much, the heating and welding capabilities are still invaluable to me.)

Since the original post mentioned the combination units I simply state that the "all in one" machines are not on my wish list simply because if it needs to go to the shop to repair one part you lose the other capability as well.  I prefer to keep my machines separate.

You will also notice I have a preference to "Blue".  This is more because of the service/support than anything else.  In the 40+ years I have been smoking rod, I have welded with about every major machine on the market (including a few that are no longer in business) and they all worked as advertised.  I buy "Blue" because I have an excellent dealer/distributor available and have built a strong, working relationship with the guys there.  Your experience might be different with your distributor.  They may be purveyor of the "Red" variety or even "Yellow" in some areas.  Whatever flavor you decide on, it is up to you to do your due diligence. 

If I was forced to cull the herd, I would keep the Dynasty and torches.  My preference, mainly because the TIG will do everything that MIG is capable of plus.  It may take a bit more time, but time is relative to being able to do a job or not.  If time is so important, the job must be paying something and I would either rent a MIG or just outright purchase one.
Roger
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