Author Topic: Rather Disturbed  (Read 4724 times)

Offline Darren

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Rather Disturbed
« on: December 09, 2008, 02:41:19 PM »
Having seen a few of these video's on UTube I was rather shocked at just how easily even a child can pick a lock, almost any lock.

Having had my workshop once emptied with no sign of a break in I now realise how. At the time the police showed little interest as there was no sign of forced entry.

I found the lock, a very expensive one, on the floor undamaged.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=sRm9BybJw0M&feature=related
 
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Offline CrewCab

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Re: Rather Disturbed
« Reply #1 on: December 09, 2008, 04:55:39 PM »
Blo*dy He*l 

That is disturbing. 

CC

Offline Darren

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Re: Rather Disturbed
« Reply #2 on: December 09, 2008, 05:05:47 PM »
This is even worse, no skill req.....next time that locksmith wants to charge your life savings cos your lock can't be picked and "it's a difficult one mate"

Just ask him about this thing, yep it's worrying. There was a time you had to "go away" to learn this stuff, now just go to UTube !!

BTW, if there is no sign of break in the police won't be interested, with that follows no insurance payout.....that is from experience.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=bKwFWiwR51E&NR=1
You will find it a distinct help… if you know and look as if you know what you are doing. (IRS training manual)

Offline Bernd

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Re: Rather Disturbed
« Reply #3 on: December 09, 2008, 07:23:15 PM »
Darren,

Before you get to upset at that you need to know that they were doing a single barrel lock. It would take them longer to do a double barrel lock. Also if you have an electronic lock that's a bit harder to pick. Deadbolts that lock only from the inside.

The other thing to remember is if somebody wants to get in bad enough a locked door or window won't stop them. The only thing that will stop them is one ounce of lead.

Fight crime. Shoot back.  :headbang:  :headbang:

Bernd
You can't fix "STUPID".

Offline CrewCab

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Re: Rather Disturbed
« Reply #4 on: December 09, 2008, 08:00:36 PM »
Fight crime. Shoot back.  :headbang:  :headbang:

Bernd,
Unfortunately our current administration frowns upon that sort of behaviour, ..................  sadly

I would happily vote for your solution though.

CC

Offline Darren

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Re: Rather Disturbed
« Reply #5 on: December 10, 2008, 04:08:48 AM »
Darren,

Before you get to upset at that you need to know that they were doing a single barrel lock. It would take them longer to do a double barrel lock. Also if you have an electronic lock that's a bit harder to pick. Deadbolts that lock only from the inside.

The other thing to remember is if somebody wants to get in bad enough a locked door or window won't stop them. The only thing that will stop them is one ounce of lead.

Fight crime. Shoot back.  :headbang:  :headbang:

Bernd

Bernd, if you have a look around Utube you'll notice that none of those locks you mention present any problems at all.

I was surprised how easy sophisticated electronic types are crack, don't even need any popper tools.

It's not really a topic for this board, but better to have your eyes wide open methinks. That's why I posted in the first place.
You will find it a distinct help… if you know and look as if you know what you are doing. (IRS training manual)

Offline PTsideshow

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Re: Rather Disturbed
« Reply #6 on: December 10, 2008, 08:15:31 AM »
First thing I will say is do not take everything on U tube at face value!. Having taken number of locksmithing courses, and having all the tools. And working on locks in my day job for over 30 years as a Facilities Manager.Most of the video's leave out a couple of important things.

First they  make the video's to sell the pick kits or the pick gun on Flea Bay.

Secondly no matter what they claim or say, it takes practice to use them even the pick gun.

Thirdly the locks are doctored to have some pins/tumblers removed or they are pinned so the the shear lines are all at the same level. So with a little tension on the cylinder barrel and bouncing the pick or what is called "raking" a back and forth motion or in and out the shear lines will jump and hang at the break. This is what opens the lock.

If there are more than two pins in a chamber, say for a sub master, master and grand master plus the core removal line. They become harder to do as all of the same shear line has to be lined up. The dead bolt probably were 5 or six pin cylinders, so they would have 10 or 12 pins.
And one shear line to line up.
Now if you remove one or two pins it gets easier.

I have a 150/200 assorted locks of all types padlock, warded, pin tumbler small format interchangeable core (Best, Arrow and other institutional locks) some are easier to open than others. Generally the cheaper they cost the easier they are to open. That is as most on this board would know the sloppier the fit,the less precession in fastening.  The easier they are to open.

And to address the bump key video's yes it does work, what they didn't tell people when a Tv news department put it on the air. Was the guys in Germany meet for a couple hours once a week and practice it and and then practice it at home as they have no lives.

As with most things the great people in the fields make it look easier. The other thing they forget to mention is the number of times they tried it before the edited the video together.

The current lock companies have a pin fix for the bumping if you want to put it in what it does is not transfer the force of the bump to the pin. It has a spring and plunger, and only one is needed in the lock.

The best and fastest universal key is a 32oz ball peen hammer and a 16" jimmy or crow bar!  :D

If you are concerned, the cheapest and easiest thing to do if you have a knob set and dead bolt. Makes sure the dead bolts are a different brand or at least a different keyway than the knob sets. Even if you have them keyed the same (dead bolts or the knob set) front and side or back door.

The other cheapest thing is put outside lighting in the areas of the doors, and garage/shop.
they hate the light to great a chance of somebody seeing them.
And keep the vegetation away from windows along the house and shop.

The closed picture may help you understand the simple homeowner locks





"The internet just a figment, of my imagination!' 
 
 There are only 3 things I can't do!"
Raise the Dead!
        Walk on water!
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and I'm working on the first two!
glen

Offline PTsideshow

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Re: Rather Disturbed
« Reply #7 on: December 10, 2008, 08:55:06 AM »
The cost of a locksmith, I also have to say something on this. As with all the scum bags in the biz, The biggest crooks are the suppliers of tools and materials to the trade. Most of the stuff is over priced. As to tools, everything has a special name. As warding files which are small files to cut the notches in key blanks by hand there are 6 popular shapes. A set you can get anywhere else that sells tools for under $10.00 they sell for $20. or more.
Impressioning files 25.00 each, small light hammers that sell at HF for under $5.00 they want $20.00. I have been kicked off a locksmith site for pointing out the overcharging on the tools because the people were not tool heads.


Some pick sets come with upwards of 60 picks and tensioning bars
The pick guns go for $40 to $75.00 and if you prefer they have a cordless electric one.
Any of the above are a fast ride to the local lock up if you don't have a bond card or a locksmith card.


The above are the key readers you use to make a key or rekey a another lock the same as one they already have.


Is the pin kit for the Small format interchangeable cores.  Depending on the brand they go in .003 or .005 increments in size. the smallest being .024 for top pins in the .003 ones to .010T in the.005 size to .156B bottom .003 to .115B in the .005 sizes the above kit costs $139.95 wholesale what ever that means  ::)


Not to make any body paranoid further these are shims that can open most all types of pad locks in under 20 seconds with practice.

It would cost you close to $200,000. To open a well equipped lock shop, for key blanks,and the assorted machines to cut keys/punch keys. Not counting safe work or even keys for cars.
Plus you can't compete with the key machines at Home Despot with the no knowledge just plug in the correct module to cut the key.

The biggest rip offs are the car opening people, be careful when calling them with an 800 number. they will charge you upwards of 1,000 bucks as they ask for the credit card number first whether its for the car or home. The best Advise I can give is find a local one that has been around for awhile or ask people you know. Then you probably won't get ripped off.
 :med:
 
"The internet just a figment, of my imagination!' 
 
 There are only 3 things I can't do!"
Raise the Dead!
        Walk on water!
                 Fix a broken heart!
and I'm working on the first two!
glen

Offline Darren

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Re: Rather Disturbed
« Reply #8 on: December 10, 2008, 10:51:48 AM »
Wow, sorry to upset anyone, not my intention at all... :(

One question, if these readily available tools don't really work then why the free offer of a trip if you get caught with one without the proper get out of jail cards?
Just curious  :headbang:


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Offline PTsideshow

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Re: Rather Disturbed
« Reply #9 on: December 10, 2008, 12:26:59 PM »
Picks do work, I personally have had better luck with the hand pick rather than the gun pick. As the video doesn't show the real working of the gun pick most times. As you need to squeeze the trigger repeatedly in rapid time to get it to vibrate the pins to the shear line. Hence the overpriced cordless version.
When they show it in the movies/TV, it is neither that fast or that easy.  I have picked a padlock off the fingers and ear of two 2nd graders with a broken paper clip, one piece bent into the L shaped tensioning bar and the other part as the pick.A Hair pin can also work. It takes practice, practice and more practice.

In the good old days, when the stores and offices keep money on hand and they locked it up in lock boxes, or desk drawers or the drawers in the cheap safes. A good pick could get the money and run before they new what happened. Hence they had laws about burglar tools across the land and beyond. Since they rally rescind the blue laws or outdated laws. They don't, But it is there when they need to bust somebody for something.

Just as they get the bad guys on non payment of income tax if they couldn't get them on breaking the law.

Yesterday the second person they introduced was from the IRS, the first was from the post office. Mail/wire fraud and none payment of income tax from the ill gotten gains. When they did in the gov from Ill. He will end up doing a 40 to 80 years stretch when they get down with him. Politicians don't like it when one of their own gets greedy. And starts to do it in the open.
Like the guy from Alaska.

So they are on the books to keep the idiots off the streets. And the neighborhood kids from parting in your house on weekends :headbang:

You just have to take everything on the internet with a shovel full of salt, and believe only 1/3 of what you see, hear or read. As there are enough FU'd people that put miss information, wrong and dangerous info out there and wannabe directors and FX people that are doing stuff that looks real but it is all smoke and mirrors.
As them guys on the Mythbusters showed with the show on U tube Hoax's  that were touted as real!
And you didn't upset me, really its just that I get tried of the miss information put out as gospel.


I use to travel the U.S. Doing clown and magic seminars and shows for clubs. showing and selling the magic and props I built. There is an item called a thumb tip that I use to sell a lot of, because I would bring somebody up and then do a number of the tricks with it and finish up with a series of tricks till I was almost touching their nose. All most every timer they still couldn't see the trick till I would ask them to hold it in the middle of it.
I'm not the greatest with them the tips, but with the patter(BS talking) and miss direction by grand arm and hand movements etc. It is truly a matter of having you look were I want you to look and not at what I'm really doing.

Not to chance the subject but did you ever wonder why even women magic acts have skimpy glads helpers. Or at least more female than male helpers. Because guys won't watch a guy helping the women magi, but women will watch a women or male assistant and not the magi.
Its just the way it is.

So on a lot of the sites you have to take a real gook look and think about it! Because everything you see, isn't what you see! :jaw:


 :med:
"The internet just a figment, of my imagination!' 
 
 There are only 3 things I can't do!"
Raise the Dead!
        Walk on water!
                 Fix a broken heart!
and I'm working on the first two!
glen

Offline Bernd

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Re: Rather Disturbed
« Reply #10 on: December 10, 2008, 08:10:32 PM »
I just have to relay this little trick (stunt?) I did at work. I got good a picking locks on tool boxes. One guy bet me that I couldn't get into his tool box because he had "Master Lock" (brand name) on it. It was the kind that you use a key in on the bttom. Well I was working second shift and had a few free moments. I noticed that the lock was one of those that has several plates that are rivited together. Now they've shown how a gun shot through it would keep it from opening.  :bugeye: Well ya. The whole inside is jammed up. Anyway, back to the rivets. I figured in order to round over the heads they had to be soft. I tested with a file and sure enough they are soft. So a few minuets filing and the bottom plate cam off. I then pulled out the tumbler and put the bottom plate back on. The lock still locked but you could now use a screw driver to open it.  :)

A mind is a teribble thing to waste.  :headbang:

Bernd
You can't fix "STUPID".

Offline J. Tranter

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Re: Rather Disturbed
« Reply #11 on: December 10, 2008, 11:54:48 PM »
What a lot of people are using now are bump keys. Which are keys cut to the deepest cut and tapped in to the lock.
you can look it up on you tube to see how it is done also.

Offline Rog02

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Re: Rather Disturbed
« Reply #12 on: December 14, 2008, 12:08:15 AM »
The first thing I learned when I started my locksmithing course was that "Locks are merely intended to keep honest people honest."

A determined thief will gain access to anything, given enough time and resources.  The object of good security is to make it such a long process to illicitly gain access that a criminal will pass it by or give up and seek an easier target.  I have seen cases of holes being cut into the walls of shops and even the roof to gain access to the contents. 

People often comment on the fact that I keep my tools in locked cabinets even though I operate in a "one man" environment.  I do this for a couple of reasons.  First is to keep my tools away from unskilled wannabes, that would use them improperly (like the time my brother used one of my planishing hammers to drive nails with).  Secondly, by keeping the tools locked in cabinets the thief would not only have to gain access to the shop but then has to pry open the cabinets to get to the good stuff. 

As another layer of security I have added a video system recently.  The cameras run continuously and record to a digital disc similar to a computer hard drive.  My system can capture the past 72 hours of activity before it "falls off" and is recorded over.  It has a battery back up to cover the possibility of power interruption as does the alarm system.  The next best thing to keeping a thief from stealing your stuff is to make sure they get caught. 

Aside from just providing the images to the police (whom, as has been previously noted could care less that your stuff was stolen) it also proves to the insurance company that the crime did indeed happen and you did not just sell or pawn the tools. 



Roger
I'm OLD, I'm TIRED, and I'M GRUMPY!

Offline Darren

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Re: Rather Disturbed
« Reply #13 on: December 14, 2008, 04:51:44 AM »

Aside from just providing the images to the police (whom, as has been previously noted could care less that your stuff was stolen) it also proves to the insurance company that the crime did indeed happen and you did not just sell or pawn the tools. 


Yes, "they" can make you feel quite uncomfortable with their questioning....
You will find it a distinct help… if you know and look as if you know what you are doing. (IRS training manual)