Author Topic: Webster-S Build  (Read 18985 times)

Offline srm_92000

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Webster-S Build
« on: May 23, 2011, 11:57:10 AM »
Hello all,

After weeks of hard design work :scratch: ok..ok.. beer drinking  :beer:
I've finally made some chips from this:-



Thanks goes to Chris (Craynerd) for the inspiration to start this by the way.

Sorry it's anopther Webster but I am going to make a few mods :loco: so it should still be interesting to see if I can get it to work.
The main mod being that it is altogether a bit bigger as can be seen from this.



All my work is metric but it'll be 1" 25.4mm bore and 32mm stroke making it 16cc.
I know many will say I'm mad but I have just finished a Stuart 10v made exactly to plans so I felt I wanted to do a bit of design on the fly.
I'm planning to include a cam-shaft back over the con-rod to another plate holding the ignition (conventional points) and exhaust cam operating the exhaust valve on the opposite side to the inlet.
This sort of defeats the original premise of the webster being a simple build but that is not my main aim in this project.
This won't be a quick build but I hope it will be of interest.
The first job has been a real test, the slots being all cut using the tiny parting tool shown resting on top of the tool-post

1.5mm tool 2.5mm slots ! It's taken be about a week on and off, I had to grind the tool twice for each slot and it was still VERY slow going.
I could have done with a carbide parting tool but needed to save the money for a new 10mm boring bar -- next job.

Thanks for looking,
Steve.

Steve,
I put it back together using all the right parts,
just not necessarily in the right order.:scratch:
(Eric morecambe - ish)

Offline raynerd

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Re: Webster-S Build
« Reply #1 on: May 23, 2011, 01:07:54 PM »
Nice start mate... I`m glad my build log has started you on this engine!

Cylinder is already looking great! Nice work....  :thumbup:

 

Offline DaveH

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Re: Webster-S Build
« Reply #2 on: May 23, 2011, 02:56:27 PM »
Steve,

Nicely done  :thumbup: :)

DaveH
(Ex Leicester, Thurmaston, Ashby De La Zouch.)

Offline saw

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Re: Webster-S Build
« Reply #3 on: May 24, 2011, 04:38:53 AM »
Looking good  :thumbup:
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Offline metalmad

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Re: Webster-S Build
« Reply #4 on: May 24, 2011, 06:02:50 AM »
nice start Steve
and remember there is always time for more Beer  :med:
Pete
A little bit every day, sometimes the same little bit!

Offline srm_92000

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Re: Webster-S Build
« Reply #5 on: May 24, 2011, 06:40:41 AM »
Thanks for the comments all.
Don't you just love it when presents drop throught the door.... :)
This just arrived.

Pictured next to its normal size brother.
I decided to go for the RZ7C it has a slightly longer reach as my head is going to be a bit thicker (probably the beer again  :hammer:)
I like the idea of a few more threads in the ally than the CM6 it's still M10x1.0
Any thoughts on gap size guys. Standard is 0.7mm, do we go with that or tweak it a bit.

Cheers,
Steve.
Steve,
I put it back together using all the right parts,
just not necessarily in the right order.:scratch:
(Eric morecambe - ish)

Offline srm_92000

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Re: Webster-S Build
« Reply #6 on: May 27, 2011, 01:01:48 PM »
I thought I was making progress again today-
Got the new bar so I could get going on the bore.
I know theres a lot hanging out the tool-post but all went well. No chatter and tested a spring cut when nearly to size and it only took .03mm off the diameter, not bad I thought.

Then I took the final cut. I'd left .18 mm from the final dimension of 25.40. That was supposed to be .1 cut + .03 spring + leave .05 under for Lapping/Honing. then I saw the finish after just the cut. :(

I measured and it was to size !!!! nothing left to take off :scratch:
Picture shown after a light rub with emery paper so looks actually loads worse than it is but still very dissapointing.
The new tool has a slightly different looking tip to my old one. New on the bottom-

If you look closely at the bottom one on the pic you can see where the coating has chipped off, this happened after the first cut as though it were just paint, the tip beneath looked, and still looks fine. I realise these generic tips are not probably the correct grade for cast, or being used anywhere near the right speed & feed, but I'm sure the old ones worked much better when I did the castings for my 10V.

Ho hum, maybe better luck tommorow.

Steve.
Steve,
I put it back together using all the right parts,
just not necessarily in the right order.:scratch:
(Eric morecambe - ish)

lordedmond

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Re: Webster-S Build
« Reply #7 on: May 27, 2011, 01:13:20 PM »
that tip look chipped to me

a pic with it facing would tell


Stuart

Offline srm_92000

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Re: Webster-S Build
« Reply #8 on: May 28, 2011, 08:08:35 AM »
Hi Stuart,

Yes it looks chipped, I'm trying to get a better close up picture but both my cameras aren't quite up to it.
I think I need to make an adaptor to hold an additional lens in front for real close close-ups  :proj:

I looked under a microscope and it really does just look like the paint! :scratch: has come off, this was after the first cut and it looks exactly the same now after boring from 13-25.4mm with no wear or chipping of the edge beneath.
Must try it on some steel to confirm condition.

I've lapped the bore some and I think I was worrying unduly as its come up ok after adding just .05mm to the diameter.
So I'll get on with the rest and see how it goes.

Cheers

Steve.
Steve,
I put it back together using all the right parts,
just not necessarily in the right order.:scratch:
(Eric morecambe - ish)

Offline srm_92000

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Re: Webster-S Build
« Reply #9 on: June 07, 2011, 07:28:27 AM »
Hello again,

I've started on the head block now using a large block of ally that I bought a few years ago, not sure why :loco:


Hacksawed a chunk off the end and prepared to mill square but had a bit of a mishap.
I decide to check all the alignment of my mill first.
It was a bit out so shimmed the column mount a bit more (Already did it fairly close when I first bought it.)
Things looked fine but a final tighten and the thread for one of the bolts in the cast base stripped
:(
The bolts are really not long enough, M8 with only five threads in the cast, so had to drill and tap the base deeper for a long stud, others are temporarily still using the old bolts without the thick washers supplied as I only had one M8 nut.

So on to the work-


My little X0 coped amazingly well, taking it steady with just 0.5mm cuts at about 400 rpm.
I had to take off about 9mm ! Wish I had room & finances for a power saw.

Here's some of the designs for the head block done with 123D.



Thanks for looking.

Steve.

 
Steve,
I put it back together using all the right parts,
just not necessarily in the right order.:scratch:
(Eric morecambe - ish)

Offline raynerd

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Re: Webster-S Build
« Reply #10 on: June 07, 2011, 07:31:29 AM »
Hehe - an aweful lot of bling in the design, I like it  :headbang:  Just to clarify, that 123D is the free CAD software Jason linked to in his recent post?
Chris
« Last Edit: June 07, 2011, 07:34:01 AM by craynerd »

Offline srm_92000

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Re: Webster-S Build
« Reply #11 on: June 07, 2011, 07:43:15 AM »
Chris,
Yes, that's the one - I should have put that in.
Seems nice, or rather, will be nice, still lots of quirks for Autodesk to sort out but they seem to be actively working on it.
As far as I can tell the beta was only released a couple of weeks ago.
I've spent all my time last week (Between taking endless cuts off the chunk of ally) trying to get to grips with it.
Lots of promise, but very frustrating at the minute.
If you have a go prepare to lose many hours. There doesn't seem to be an 'auto save' so save every time you make a change as it will crash - A lot.

Good luck-
Steve

PS. Nice to see your Webster back together  :thumbup:
Steve,
I put it back together using all the right parts,
just not necessarily in the right order.:scratch:
(Eric morecambe - ish)

Rob.Wilson

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Re: Webster-S Build
« Reply #12 on: June 07, 2011, 12:31:35 PM »
Hi Steve  :thumbup:

Looks like your off to a good start  :headbang: ,,,,,,,,,, your idea for  finning of the head looks great  :med:



Rob

Offline srm_92000

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Re: Webster-S Build
« Reply #13 on: June 16, 2011, 08:07:28 AM »
Hi, :wave:

Thanks for comments. It's nice to know someone's watching.

I've made a bit more progress on the build.
I was held up a bit as the head block wasn't going to fit in my 4 jaw so I had to make some clamps to hold it on the face plate -

They'll come in useful for other stuff too though.
It was a bit scary having this lot spinning round but with the nuts on one clamp bolt and a big 'T' nut bolted behind it balanced quite well, only spun it at about 400 rpm but it still bored out ok :D


Cheers for looking,
Steve.
Steve,
I put it back together using all the right parts,
just not necessarily in the right order.:scratch:
(Eric morecambe - ish)

Offline Ronkh

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Re: Webster-S Build
« Reply #14 on: June 16, 2011, 12:32:23 PM »
Sorry it's anopther Webster

Why apologise?
I love watcing these engines come together and will have a go myself soon.

Regards,

Ron.
Just me!

Offline doubleboost

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Re: Webster-S Build
« Reply #15 on: June 17, 2011, 12:28:55 PM »
Hi
Steve
That is looking nice  :clap: :clap: :clap:
I do like a big engine  :D :D :D :D
John

Offline DaveH

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Re: Webster-S Build
« Reply #16 on: June 17, 2011, 01:37:51 PM »
Steve,

It was a bit scary having this lot spinning round but with the nuts on one clamp bolt and a big 'T' nut bolted behind it balanced quite well, only spun it at about 400 rpm but it still bored out ok :D

I bet it was  :bugeye:

 :beer:

DaveH
(Ex Leicester, Thurmaston, Ashby De La Zouch.)

Offline srm_92000

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Re: Webster-S Build
« Reply #17 on: July 01, 2011, 05:12:00 PM »
Hi all,

Finally a little more progress to report, I really know how to make things difficult for myself :bang:

Set up to mill all those fins and 5 holes.
Why 5? I hear you ask, cause I thought it would look nice! :doh:
First I used an MT 2 collet and the little draw bar I made to fix a 12mm slug with M6 studding into the RT.




I then centred the 12mm bar to the spindle using the X-Y table and zeroed both handles going clockwise (as I always do so I remember where I am if I leave a job til the next day.)
Then mounted the part and centred that, tapping until it read true when turning (by hand) the spindle.
As a check spinning the RT it was all within .05mm.



Then needed to set the edge of the part by rotating the RT and traversing the X until it clocked zero (making sure I didn't mess up the X collar setting.)



Noted the whole degrees reading on the table and zeroed the RT handle collar.
Then I could drill, counter-bore the holes and mill the slots, all using the centre of the main bore as a reference.



Finally couldn't resist a little mock up shot with the plug in, haven't even taken the burrs of yet, or done the top fins but I was quite pleased with the way it went.



FEW! :doh:

Next time I post a plan with all them bits to it - someone stop me! Please!
 :)

Thanks for looking again,
Steve.
Steve,
I put it back together using all the right parts,
just not necessarily in the right order.:scratch:
(Eric morecambe - ish)

Offline doubleboost

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Re: Webster-S Build
« Reply #18 on: July 01, 2011, 05:27:52 PM »
Looking very nice
John

Offline srm_92000

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Re: Webster-S Build
« Reply #19 on: July 01, 2011, 06:24:21 PM »
Thanks John,

Should have the top fins and a bit of clean up done over the weekend.

Steve.
Steve,
I put it back together using all the right parts,
just not necessarily in the right order.:scratch:
(Eric morecambe - ish)

Offline raynerd

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Re: Webster-S Build
« Reply #20 on: July 01, 2011, 06:52:57 PM »
Looking great!  :ddb:

Offline srm_92000

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Re: Webster-S Build
« Reply #21 on: July 01, 2011, 07:02:02 PM »
Cheers Chris,
I really must think before I say I'm going to do something in future!.
The ONLY reason the fin slots are 7mm deep is because that's all the 3mm slot drill I've got will do and how I drew it.
So why didn't I just say 5mm deep?
:doh:
would have saved ages.

And doing them all at odd angles  :loco:
I need help! :beer:

Steve.
Steve,
I put it back together using all the right parts,
just not necessarily in the right order.:scratch:
(Eric morecambe - ish)

Offline PekkaNF

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Re: Webster-S Build
« Reply #22 on: July 02, 2011, 05:06:29 AM »
That has big swift of reverse transition from art deco to functionalism in it. Like the way it look.

Pekka

Offline metalmad

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Re: Webster-S Build
« Reply #23 on: July 02, 2011, 05:36:00 AM »
Hi Steve
I love it  :clap: :clap:
Pete
A little bit every day, sometimes the same little bit!

Offline srm_92000

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Re: Webster-S Build
« Reply #24 on: July 07, 2011, 02:33:50 PM »
Hi,

Delayed thanks for the comment Pete,
and Pekka, glad you mentioned art deco that was actually the sort of the look I was going for,
only problem now is I've got to come up with designs for the rest to fit in with it, :doh:

Still not done the top fins yet but will hopefully update soon.

Steve.
Steve,
I put it back together using all the right parts,
just not necessarily in the right order.:scratch:
(Eric morecambe - ish)

Offline PekkaNF

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Re: Webster-S Build
« Reply #25 on: July 09, 2011, 02:18:32 PM »
Yeah, it had THAT look, I'm happy it was all intentional. Looks very architectural, allmost like a building. At the short end finns are probably no problem? When the fins are fanned it appear first look a little heavy without any embelsishments, but were that building, would you just leave it as a bold and stubborn like that....functionally it would work. Or would you use some bead or groove to "lighten" it. Or would you just make a X- or diamond pattern? Tough call after that bold start. And very fortunate to have such a dilema!

Pekka

Rob.Wilson

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Re: Webster-S Build
« Reply #26 on: July 11, 2011, 02:07:07 PM »
 :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: now that looks the part ,well worth the extra work involved ,,,,, good job Steve  :dremel:



Rob

Offline srm_92000

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Re: Webster-S Build
« Reply #27 on: July 11, 2011, 02:33:48 PM »
Cheers Rob,
 :beer:

Here's the latest pic with the top fins and a bit of clean up done.

Now I've got to get to work on the design of the rest.

Steve.
Steve,
I put it back together using all the right parts,
just not necessarily in the right order.:scratch:
(Eric morecambe - ish)

Offline DaveH

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Re: Webster-S Build
« Reply #28 on: July 11, 2011, 02:44:13 PM »
Steve,

Ooooooo..... now just look at that ..... beautifull. :clap: :clap: :clap:

Very nice work, really looks good :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

I bet you are pleased with that.
 :beer:
DaveH
(Ex Leicester, Thurmaston, Ashby De La Zouch.)

Offline srm_92000

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Re: Webster-S Build
« Reply #29 on: July 11, 2011, 03:03:41 PM »
Yes well pleased Dave,
 :D
I just hope the rest goes as well. This is taking me soooooo much longer than I thought, mainly due to the fact every time I make something - the list of tools etc I NEED grows and the funds available disappear.
Just spent £15 on wet&dry :bugeye:

Cheers,

Steve.
Steve,
I put it back together using all the right parts,
just not necessarily in the right order.:scratch:
(Eric morecambe - ish)

Offline PekkaNF

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Re: Webster-S Build
« Reply #30 on: July 11, 2011, 03:06:42 PM »
Very austerne and charismatic! Like it a lot.

Pekka

Offline srm_92000

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Re: Webster-S Build
« Reply #31 on: July 11, 2011, 03:19:12 PM »
Pekka,

Had me reaching for my dictionary then  :bow:

Thanks --- I think? :scratch:

Seriously though can I use your previous terms, so if anyone asks I can say it was designed along the 'reverse transitional art deco functionalism lines.
Sounds GREAT  :)

Steve,
I put it back together using all the right parts,
just not necessarily in the right order.:scratch:
(Eric morecambe - ish)

Offline raynerd

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Re: Webster-S Build
« Reply #32 on: July 11, 2011, 04:27:26 PM »
Steve, tell us, how did you get the nice curve to the edge? Did you mill that?

Chris

Offline srm_92000

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Re: Webster-S Build
« Reply #33 on: July 11, 2011, 05:18:09 PM »
Yes & No Chris,

I set it up at 45deg and milled 2mm off the corner (about right for the designed 5mm rad).
Got the small 12mm wide fine file on it and just took off the two corners left.
Then a small Swiss file that was still wide enough to bridge the gaps and blended them together.
I must admit I was dreading it in-case I made a right mess but it went ok. I think less is more with filing radii just take off the corners gently and before you know it there's a curve, Haven't a clue if it's the right radius and I'm never going to measure it in case I'm tempted to go back at it with a file.
finished up with 600 then 1000 grit dry so far, as with the rest.

Cheers. :coffee:

Steve.
Steve,
I put it back together using all the right parts,
just not necessarily in the right order.:scratch:
(Eric morecambe - ish)

Rob.Wilson

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Re: Webster-S Build
« Reply #34 on: July 11, 2011, 05:19:36 PM »
 :bugeye:   :bow: :bow: :bow:  even better , Steve  :clap: :clap: :clap:


Rob  :)

Offline doubleboost

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Re: Webster-S Build
« Reply #35 on: July 11, 2011, 05:50:25 PM »
Propper job  :bow: :bow: :bow:
Files and fine emery classic  :bugeye: :bugeye: :clap: :clap:
John

Offline raynerd

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Re: Webster-S Build
« Reply #36 on: July 11, 2011, 06:09:55 PM »
I was fearing you were going to say that    :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow:

Note to self - "must practice more and try harder!"

Offline PekkaNF

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Re: Webster-S Build
« Reply #37 on: July 12, 2011, 04:30:51 PM »
Pekka,

Had me reaching for my dictionary then  :bow:

Thanks --- I think? :scratch:

Seriously though can I use your previous terms, so if anyone asks I can say it was designed along the 'reverse transitional art deco functionalism lines.
Sounds GREAT  :)

Anytime.. you can even own it or blame me for the consequences when somebody is first putting the timeline of different styles together and then logically trying to piece together the obivious and not feeling any viser! If you feel it describes it, then you'll be defining it. When you see "folks" having this kind of exchange over it, you know you are into something:
http://www.cheftalk.com/forum/thread/49716/what-does-deconstructed-mean

Truth is that I have an interest of different styles and their underlying ethos, but I still don't understand it any better than a lamb over a coffee, but what I'm lacking on skill or knowledge I'll ace with humor. Very often it's not even funny, very often just plain weird.

Like - the whole idea of functionalism was pretty cool, but did they actually managed to produce anything functional? In practical and technological sense. The icons we know were definately a distinct style and a very recognizable form language, but hardly never functional on classical sense. Art deco is harder to describe, but it was a more gradual and less disciplined transition from earlier. Don't you need that functionalism needs a little regression?

Pekka