New table: What shoulf I considerate for measurement and marking out?

[PekkaNF]

Hello,

I have collected way too much stuff to my garage and I'm clearing some out to make some space to work and some new tools, but lately I have found out that I need some place to measure and mark out parts.

I have slipped into measuring and marking out over a tool chest, because it of confortable height: When standing table top comes to elbows. Then I move over my cluttered work bench to punch centres. It would break my heart to hammer tool chest that has lathe tools, milling tools and many of the drills. That would do no good.

I'm listing here items I have been considering:

1) I'm pretty sure I want table top to elbow height when standing
2) I also like some toe space under the table, that I stand close enough and rest my arms on the table to ease measurement and layout
3) Good light is essential
4) What about table top? Something of light uniform color and relatively hard not to dent too easy? Probably would be smart to put light machine feets under the table or other form of adjustment to level the table top.
5) Some drawers nearby to keep marking out stuff and measurement tools available
6) Any handy suggestions on how to locate a small surface plate. It's rock, not really light weight to swing on and off at whim, but annoyingly small (around 200*300 mm or so) to all the work on it. Would it be very daft idea to build a self for a surface plate and cover it with this main table top I'm rambling about? Maybe the table top could be hinged or slid away to reveal this tiny surface plate when needed? I don't want to leave surface plate "exposed" I'll probably knock something over it eventually.

Then I probably need still punch on the old work/asembly/cluter collector bench.

Am I missing something essential here?

I will not start building this right away, I have more urgent things to do, but I rather think it over before running amok and build something halfway. I should build it summer tough because I don't do woodworking inside.

Thanks,
Pekka

[joshagrady]

Pekka,

I'm currently cramped for space, living in a small apartment, and setting up and tearing down "the shop" every time I need/want to do something.  I use a thick (8mm) piece of glass that I scavenged from someplace, that I can setup on the dining room table, layout, and then return to its place behind the bookshelf.  I would not recommend this setup unless nothing better is available.

When I dream about setting up my ideal shop, I usually reflect that Artie's mark-out table has to be one of the best I've ever seen.

Saludos from Spain,

Josh

[PekkaNF]

Josh,

Thank you

This is exacly the situation I'm trying to avoid. I need a space I can go for an hour or two every now and then and do my hobby, leave it unfinshed and return it on a whim, without any need for a complete room makeover.

I see that I'm not alone and stuck with too little space. My big plan is to get rid of clutter and move all unncessary material to a storage or recylcle...a battle of it's own. I'm also trying to designate a little space for each repetitive action:
* Need a little space for most used materials (Need info material coding does anybody use paint to mark different grades of steels?)
* Need a little space for my metal cutting saw.
* Minimum useful space for markking out and measurement
* Obiviously I'm milling and turning pretty frequently all tools that are needed to that machine should be close.
* A little space for a new machine
* Some assembly space and space to keep unfinshed work

I can weld and I have some grinding equipment. Any tought of hot work near house gives me creeps. I'm looking a proper drawers and toolchest it any would come my way. I could fabricate frame out of angle iron and bolt easily there adjustable feets and bolt on drawers and such.

And without further ado: What is the minimum markking/measurement space requirement?

I put some litle items on the table and was pretty surpriced that do anything usefull I needed about a metre width and 400 mm deep space.

I was thinkking of putting a surface plate on a self under this table top and just putting some plastic boxes on both sides contains the odd bits, but it might bea goos idea to make somewhat raised table around this surface plate. Like recess that 70 mm deep lump of granite in a table recess, the surface just 5 mm higher that the unaccurate table. This swiss cheese should be removable to allow measurement of odd shapes (like round rods with a lump of metal at the other end(s)...).

Still thinkking,
Pekka

[jiihoo]

Hi,

(Need info material coding does anybody use paint to mark different grades of steels?)

I was reading Tubal Cain's Model Engineer's Handbook last night and then I remembered seeing this post a while back. He suggests the following code.
Some colors are used twice or thrice; in such cases the metals are dissimilar enough not to cause confusion.

No color: Aluminum, Mild steel
Yellow: Free-cutting mild steel, Copper
Red: Common brass, Stainless steel
Red/black stripe: Cast brass
Red/yellow stripe: Free-cutting stainless steel
Blue: Carbon tool steel (silver steel / drill rod), German silver, Cast gunmetal
Green: Phosphor bronze
Green/black stripe: Cast Phosphor bronze
Black: 70/30 brass, Cast iron
Black/white stripe: Aluminum alloy (spec stamped on end)
White: Hex bar of nut size, brass or steel

Bars are painted at each end and in the middle. Special materials are coded black/white and wrapped & labeled.


I am thinking of adopting this sceme. The 14 ml mini paint cans that plastic model builders use might be a convenient size and they are quick drying. The two nearest supermarkets 5 mins away both stock the mini paint cans from Revell.

Cheers,


Jari
(Got some pictures now so my intro post can't be too far away :-)

[modeng200023]

I have just bought some free-cutting stainless steel 303 and it was coloured green.
Is there an industry standard for identifying colours?

John

[PekkaNF]

Hi Jari,

Funny I have the same book, but I never considered that code.

To my understanding color codes are not standard. I have seen quite a few and they seem to be reliabe only when you know manufacturer.

Here is one:
http://www.uddeholm.fi/finnish/files/teraslajien_varimerkinnat.pdf

I think I have seen one different from Böhler.

THe problem is that an 16 mm rod of silver steel, centreless groung mild steel and even cold drawn tempering steel all look fairly similar. Same thing with a hot or cold rolled stuff, but the moment you touch tat with a drill, you can tell, that probably you hit tempering steel instead of easier to machine steel......

I was even considering using the resistor value color coding /electronics) to give a running number and have a printted of number, color code and grade/size to print the sheet and stickers.....

Pekka

[joshagrady]

Have you seen Frank Ford's metal identification trick?

[PekkaNF]

Have you seen Frank Ford's metal identification trick?

Thanks. Spraycan is away to go. Now I only have to come up with a color code.

Pekka

[krv3000]

HI I have this if its any good

[srm_92000]

This is getting complicated now,

 
My coding is.
Steel - silver/grey
Iron - Grey/rust
Aluminium - silver - non magnetic
Stainless - silver - hard - non magnetic (sometimes)
Brass - Golddish brown
Copper - Reddish brown
Gold - got none
Silver - got none
Hope - got none
 

Steve.

[PekkaNF]

Steve

My color coding is partly similar, but it also includes bright stoc, part of it eazzy to machine, some of it is PITA. Nice when you have to destroy one drill to find out that you were messing with work hardening stuff and peck drilling is not the way to go. Then I had some that I had to recycle, it looked fine, but had hard spots and carbon inclusions...scrap metal has HSS and toolbits?

I like this material groupping, maybe I should make a FATline, that would indicate the material group and then stripe of additional coding....
http://www.lamina-tech.ch/img/catalog/454.pdf

I'll be tripping over my hair before i can make up my mind, but when I do, I'm going to enforce it as an universal and binding rule that everybody has has to use and bow on me  and....never mind: it's time for my late afternoon pill .

Pekka

[Lew_Merrick_PE]

Pekka,

1) Setting the tabletop height at "elbow height" is not really a good idea.  Make it 15 or cm below that height maximum.  Remember that (A) you will need to stack things up from time to time and (B) that you will be reaching into the center of the area.

2) As I have separate layout bench and surface plate set-ups, this may not apply to you.  My layout bench is made up of oak boards 1.5 X 3.5 inches (3.75 X 8.75 cm).  They are assembled into a grid that has a nominal 8 inch (20 cm) spacing.  The "long boards" are 72 inches (6 ft -- 190 cm) long.  The "short boards" are 6.5 inches (16.3 cm) between the "long boards" (doweled and glued in position) to make a table that is 41.5 inches (104 cm) wide.  The spaces in the grid allow me to place clamps to hold things in position.  The whole surface is as flat as one can make it using a plane and a 6 foot precision straightedge.

This top is mounted on a pair of trestle legs.  Three of the trestle feet positions have 1/2 inch (12 mm) carriage bolts threaded into them such that the carriage bolt has a 1.25 inch "gap" to the nominal level base.  I can then level the bench by adjusting the carriage bolts using the square portion just under the head and lock them in place using a mating nut.  Done right, this is a rock solid set-up.

When my layout bench is in (semi-)permanent position, a small roll-away chest holding my various layout tools lives beneath it.  The trestle legs are set to line up with the vertical members of the grid (1.5 inches wide) and are attached using socket head cap screws (so I can remove them from the "top").  Wooden dowel pins hold them in place so I don't need nine arms to assemble or disassemble it.  The top is a "heavy grunt" lift, but I can move it myself.  The trestle legs have longitudinal runners (made from 1 X 6 lumber) that bolt between them so they can be set up independently of the top.  I have a couple of pieces of high quality cabinet plywood that will fill in four of the "grids" when I need to deal with small parts.  They have cut-outs in them to allow me to get clamps on those small parts so I don't end up chasing everything around as I work on it.

The whole thing is finished with three coats of spar varnish.  In the 30 or so years I have been using this set-up, I have only "dinged" it a couple of times.  Repairs after such a "ding" are fairly easy woodworking.  My "layout top" is set to my waist height.

[krv3000]

so was my chart any good ???

[Lew_Merrick_PE]

Re: Color Coding Metals  --  There was an American (ANSI) standard for such color coding.  It was one of the (many) things that became unenforceable after the National Bureau of Standards (NBS) was dismantled and replaced by the National Institute for Standards Technology (NIST) -- which exists solely to protect intellectual property rights.

[PekkaNF]

Thank you Lew, That was good info. I'll take that consideration. You probably work with big stuff.

krv3000, Thank you. Those ANSI numbers and that methology are not familiar to me, but I'll check if I can cross reference and find the ones that interest me.

Pekka

[Chazz]

What abot the colour coding that Sandvic or Kennametal use?

2 pesos
Chazz