Author Topic: Wire my 3 phase motor  (Read 14527 times)

Offline timeone

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Wire my 3 phase motor
« on: June 05, 2011, 06:52:34 AM »
Im sure one of you clever guys will be able to adise me how to wire my 3 phase motor ready to connect to my inverter

below is a pic of the terminals in the motor as you can see terminals are A,B,C,N
The motor had previously been connected to a direct 3 phase supply
so how do i wire it up for my inverter
any help appreciated



Offline raynerd

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Re: Wire my 3 phase motor
« Reply #1 on: June 05, 2011, 07:03:42 AM »
You know on the inside of the cover you have just removed the expose the terminals for the picture, is there not a wiring diagram for delta. Mine was an identical sort of thing with labeled terminals but there was a little diagram showing the layout for star and one for delta.
Chris

Offline timeone

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Re: Wire my 3 phase motor
« Reply #2 on: June 05, 2011, 07:23:48 AM »
Chris
Yes there is a sticker on the cover but bearly readable.

How did you wire yours to an inverter ?
appreciate any help as id like to get the lathe running today

Offline raynerd

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Re: Wire my 3 phase motor
« Reply #3 on: June 05, 2011, 07:43:08 AM »
All the info for mine is here:

http://madmodder.net/index.php?topic=3420.0

and some more here:

http://madmodder.net/index.php?topic=1231.75

I think the info will be fairly meaningless to your situation. I just followed the wiring diagram like a lemming, I don`t really understand why it is wired in such a way. I expect if you google delta wiring you`ll find more info and will be able to figure out the wiring.

Others on here will hopefully chime in soon as they have much more understanding than me!

Chris

Offline David Jupp

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Re: Wire my 3 phase motor
« Reply #4 on: June 05, 2011, 08:37:40 AM »
Don't rush - you could easily wreck something!  (including your inverter).

I can't quite make out from the picture - if there are 3 wires from inside the casing to the N terminal, then these are the 'opposite ends' of windings A,B,C.  In which case they can be separated and the wires re-arranged to give Delta connection.  Identify which is which with a multi-meter or circuit tester. 

If there is only a single wire to the N terminal, then the Star Point  is buried internally somewhere - in which case it isn't an easy re-wire job, but it may be possible if you strip the motor further and un solder the star connection, then re-terminate the ends.  This could be quite tricky (I have a motor where I'm still trying to locate the star point for exactly the same reason - though on mine it isn't even brought out to a neutral terminal).

Good luck, but again please don't rush it - the chances of major damage are significant if you get it wrong.

lordedmond

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Re: Wire my 3 phase motor
« Reply #5 on: June 05, 2011, 10:23:48 AM »
As you are from the UK

1 was the motor running from a normal  TP & N network i.e. 415vac then it is wired as Star  "Y" formation


if thats the case then it will not run from an inverter fed from the domestic 220 vac single phase supply ( by saying inverter do you mean VFD )


to run on an inverter supply fed from 220vac single phase you need an inverter rated motor wound /connected in delta to give 220 vac across the phases


you give us very little to work with just a vague pic no other info as to the type of inverter its output volts act ( if its a vfd then has it been programmed for your motor )


if you are not sure then for you and your equipment sake get some qualified advice from an electrician in person ( not a house basher )

Stuart


Offline timeone

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Re: Wire my 3 phase motor
« Reply #6 on: June 05, 2011, 12:22:19 PM »
A bit more info
Sorry to be vague
here is some more info
the vdf inverter is the same as this make
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/1HP-3-PHASE-INVERTER-CONVERTER-240V-LATHE-MILL-DRILL-/380342848249?_trksid=p3286.m7&_trkparms=algo%3DLVI%26itu%3DUCI%26otn%3D2%26po%3DLVI%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D434706827012670683
 
 
the details on the inverter are
AC 1PH 200/240V  50/60HZ  15A
OUT  AC3HP  0-240V   0,200HZ  2HP
 
The wire photo of the motor i posted doesnt show the wires to well but they are as below
A  red
B yellow
C blue
N  3 wires looks like 2 brown and one black
 
The motor had all white wires inside which ive disconnected during transportation these went to a switch with a ? speed control  as in this pic
http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m141/beekuk/lathe/a.jpg
the mains wires coming out of the junction box on the lathe to connect to 3 phase supply are
brown
yellow
black
earth
 
hope this will help
 

lordedmond

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Re: Wire my 3 phase motor
« Reply #7 on: June 05, 2011, 01:13:29 PM »
Ok now you have really muddied up the waters

Ok for the VFD 220 vac nominal 3 phase , that motor will not like the Hz above 60Hz  ,thats why I commented on the motor being inverter/vfd rated
the old 3 ph standard ( when I was an apprentice ) was red white and blue, later changed to red yellow blue

the three wires on the the N connector are the a2 b2 c2 wires connected in star ( high voltage e.g. 415 volts ac )  with the red = a1 yellow = b1 and blue = c1

to use your inverter that motor will need to be changed to a delta config i.e. 220 vac 3ph

I am making some assumption here without hands on I cannot be sure ( caveat emptor )

that switch is the thing that has muddied thing up its more likely to be forward and reverse ( you only need to swap any two wire to reverse )

the mains wire are not standard so no comment

Offline JohnC

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Re: Wire my 3 phase motor
« Reply #8 on: June 05, 2011, 02:38:21 PM »
Remove all the wires from the N terminal. Reconnect to the other 3 terminals as follows:

Red/ Brown

Yellow/White

Blue/Black

If the motor turns the wrong way exchange any two pairs of wires.

John

« Last Edit: June 05, 2011, 02:43:05 PM by JohnC »
John C
York, UK

lordedmond

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Re: Wire my 3 phase motor
« Reply #9 on: June 05, 2011, 02:52:46 PM »
Ok John

please read timeone post he has there wire on the N term are his words two black and one brown

the wire colours are not standard they are normally internal all the shame colour and are tagged a1,a2,b1,b2,c1 and c2

the only way is to ring them out a2 to b1 b2 to c1 c2 to a1



i.e. end of winding a to start of winding b   end of b to start of c  end of c  to start of a 


ie standard delta config

Stuart

wound many of these when I was an apprentice

Offline timeone

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Re: Wire my 3 phase motor
« Reply #10 on: June 05, 2011, 03:14:46 PM »
John
so i disconnect all the wires from N  what all 3 off them are these not going to connect anywhere

what about the earth dont i need to connect 4 wires to inverter

god im confused

Offline JohnC

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Re: Wire my 3 phase motor
« Reply #11 on: June 05, 2011, 03:19:13 PM »
Stuart,

I would expect a Brown, Black and White on the N terminal. Maybe one of the 'looks like' Brown wires is white under the muck, or has been changed in the past.  

Timeone:

Try:
Red/ Brown 1
Blue/Black
Yellow/ White(Brown 2)

If the motor buzzes and does not turn, change Brown 1 and Brown 2


John
John C
York, UK

Offline JohnC

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Re: Wire my 3 phase motor
« Reply #12 on: June 05, 2011, 03:25:35 PM »
Timeone - check your e-mais. I've sent a pic.
John
John C
York, UK

Offline modeldozer

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Re: Wire my 3 phase motor
« Reply #13 on: June 05, 2011, 03:37:51 PM »
While drawing and uploading this might have been answered, but her goes.

Remove the three wires from the N terminal and with a continuity tester/multymeter find the "pairs" goeing to each coil, then connet as per the drawing.  The fourth wire from the VFD needs to be an earth and connect to the frame of the motor.



Abraham

Offline timeone

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Re: Wire my 3 phase motor
« Reply #14 on: June 05, 2011, 03:41:37 PM »
john

no email mate

timeone@ntlworld.com

Offline JohnC

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Re: Wire my 3 phase motor
« Reply #15 on: June 05, 2011, 03:45:23 PM »
This says pretty much what modeldozer has drawn:


Anyway, remove all 3 wires from the N terminal.  The N terminal will not
be used in a VFD ( inverter) set up.

Now connect one of the 'Brown' wires, together with the existing Red
wire to terminal A that had just the Red wire.

Connect the Black wire removed from N together with the existing Blue
wire to Terminal C

Connect the last wire - should be white but may have been changed -
together with the Yellow wire to terminal B.

Now connect the wires from the inverter output - something like U W V -
to A B C.  the order doesn't matter.

Try the motor.  If it just buzzes and doesn't turn change over the two
'Brown' wires.  If it runs but goes the wrong way, change any 2 wires
from the inverter.


Hope this helps,
John
John C
York, UK

Offline timeone

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Re: Wire my 3 phase motor
« Reply #16 on: June 06, 2011, 09:15:35 AM »
Good news the lathe is running

Can someone confirm what the best belt position would be. Id like to position the belts and then leave them alone and control the speed via the inverter
Lathes and Boxford are all new to me so ive posted a couple of pictures

The belt layout is this ok or should i change


Handle in this position


Picture of the lathe
as you can see its quite a tidy one gave £425 for it which i thought was a good deal

Offline JohnC

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Re: Wire my 3 phase motor
« Reply #17 on: June 06, 2011, 01:15:17 PM »
 :beer:  Glad to hear the lathe is working!

Depending on your inverter you may find that torque drops off at low speed.  So you may still need to change the belts. 
John
John C
York, UK

Offline timeone

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Re: Wire my 3 phase motor
« Reply #18 on: June 06, 2011, 01:42:02 PM »
So you think its a matter of trial and error to see what best suits

Offline JohnC

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Re: Wire my 3 phase motor
« Reply #19 on: June 06, 2011, 02:52:21 PM »
I would say so.
 :smart:

John
John C
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Offline spuddevans

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Re: Wire my 3 phase motor
« Reply #20 on: June 07, 2011, 05:17:41 AM »
So you think its a matter of trial and error to see what best suits

I think that the best advice would be to get a qualified electrician to wire it up for you, high voltages are not forgiving at all.


A few pounds or dollars are far easier to replace than you are.


Just a note to all, if you dont know how to wire up something and the voltages involved are greater than 24Volts, it is always wiser to get someone who is qualified and experienced to sort it out for you.


Tim
Measure with a micrometer, mark with chalk, cut with an axe  -  MI0TME

Offline andyf

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Re: Wire my 3 phase motor
« Reply #21 on: June 07, 2011, 06:25:25 AM »
I think Timeone is talking about trial and error on his pulleys, Tim. He seems to have sorted the electrics without  :zap:

Andy
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I've cut the end off it twice, but it's still too short

Offline spuddevans

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Re: Wire my 3 phase motor
« Reply #22 on: June 07, 2011, 06:43:35 AM »
I think Timeone is talking about trial and error on his pulleys, Tim. He seems to have sorted the electrics without  :zap:

Andy

Thanks Andy, I didnt realise that :thumbup:

Tim
Measure with a micrometer, mark with chalk, cut with an axe  -  MI0TME