Due-mig

[BK]

I've had this little mig for 20+ years and I'm sick of paying $160.00 per year cylinder rental for the gas, so I'm thinking "gasless" wire.
My question, how do I change the polarity??
Newer models have a visible connection near the drove wheels, any ideas??

[krv3000]

HI well I dont no much abawt wher you live or whate you whelld with your mig but if its just steel  have you not considerd co2  pub gas botels 

[Davo J]

As soon as I saw Due mig I knew the post was from Aus. I bought one 27 years ago and it served me well for 10 years. I welded everything with it including aluminium.
As for the bottles have you seen the guy on ebay where you buy the bottles of him and get them refilled off him as well. They are a company that have depot's all around the place. A large bottle was around the $400 to buy out right full.

As for polarity I would give it a go as is, going by this thread below. I haven't tried it but it seems a lot of guys think there is little or no difference.
http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=1339

I have always used gas with the Due mig and with the mig CIG Transmig that replaced it.
Last year a neighbor was talking to me and said he bought a new Toolex 160amp gas/gasless mig and hated it and it was crap, and that he should have just bought a ark welder to use up the farm. We got talking and he asked to swap me for my little Chinese ark welder which I couldn't knock back as I only paid $60 for it second hand, and told him this, but he did not want this mig even though he paid around the $600 for it.

I got it and strait up I could see the wire was rusty so I unrolled it till it was clean. the welder welds fine, but I really don't like the way gasless wire welds. It just doesn't seem to get the same penetration and leaves flux on the weld. I also soon found out you don't tack with out a helmet using it as I ended up with a sunburned face. I would say this is because it doesn't have the shielding nozzle when using gasless, and the rays just come strait back at you. I don't even get ray burns like that at 200amps on my gas welder. It also has a lot more fumes from the flux, so if your working in doors it is something to think about.

You will find the expense of the gasless wire to work out the same if not more than running gas if you use it regularly. If you are only going to use it now and then it would be cheaper, but take the wire spool out and wrap it in a plastic bag then put it away in a cupboard.

I will use up the gasless wire here and their out doors, but for any welds that need real strength I will use gas.

Buy a small roll and give it a go and see what you think, but I don't think you will like it after using gas.

Dave.

[BK]

That's the sorta answer I was looking for Dave, my mig is hobby stuff only, an 8" spool of wire last 2 years, as does an E type bottle of argoshield, but that rental on the BOC bottles is the killer. (Cunning buggars are bar codeing the bottles now, so I can't give my mate the price of the gas + a couple of drinks anymore. )
Have you a link to the bloke on hebay??
Thanks.

[Marauder]

I have read on several welding forums about MiG welding without gas and it don't sound very good .One guy did lots of MiG weld runs on a steel plate, the runs of weld using gas looked good, the weld runs not using gas looked well crap.

[Davo J]

That's the sorta answer I was looking for Dave, my mig is hobby stuff only, an 8" spool of wire last 2 years, as does an E type bottle of argoshield, but that rental on the BOC bottles is the killer. (Cunning buggars are bar codeing the bottles now, so I can't give my mate the price of the gas + a couple of drinks anymore. )
Have you a link to the bloke on hebay??
Thanks.

Yep that bar coding sux, but I have my own big bottle I scored years a go and get half refill with a male male connector hose as it will equalize between the 2 so they both end up half full. Something to think about if you can get hold of a bottle and it's easy enough to make a lead. I also have another one with strait argon for stainless and aluminium welding.

I just looked and I am out on the price as it's $419 for a E size and only in NSW, but I am not sure where you are?
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140579783180&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

Dave

[Pete.]

I gave back my BOC bottle for the same reason. Round here you even have to pay a fee if you take it to the depot for a swap.

We have no-rent bottle suppliers, one good one charges £50 deposit for the bottle regardless of how long you have it and when you return it you get your 50 back.

[BK]

Bottles aren't a problem Dave, I've scored 2 over the years, a BOC and a Lindy, but no refund!! (and no rental  )
I'd really like to stay with gas, no slag is a big incentive, and less splatter also.
Honestly I don't know which way to go, my old Due Mig works great, and I know it, if I change around I'll have to learn the ins and outs again. 

[Davo J]

Hi,
If you can find someone to go half's with the rental (either your bill or his) to keep the costs down, then have a spare bottle and share the gas with a male to male adapter, this is how it works for me.
Sometimes one uses more than the other, but you can work out how much gas he gives you by the gauge, so you just pay the amount you got off him.

Dave

[Davo J]

Thinking about it, when I first started out I rented a D size bottle and was always going back. The guy their said why don't you go up to a E size as it has 3 times the gas as the D because they pressurize it more. I went this way for 10 or more years and then scored a full large bottle and gave up my account and used this. I think it was up to around $115 a year then for the E size then. Every bill I got I noticed it would jump $10-$15 dollars but still see all the reps driving around inexpensive new BOC cars which was annoying.

Since you don't use it as much these days, if you went back to a D size it would be cheaper rental and cheaper gas as you would be getting less, but would do you. If you happen to get a large job on you could always go back and refill it.
I am in the same boat, I use a large bottle every 2-3 years around here, and treat the gas like gold with triple checking I have turned it off. I remember my grandfather being like this with the oxy set, but never thought it would come to this with mig gas.
With all the companies and people using mig gas you would think it would be getting cheaper.

Dave

[doubleboost]

Flux wire is horrible compared to gas
The cheapest option is a co2 pub bottle try bribing your local publican
Co2 is not as good as argon Co2 mix but a hundred times better than flux wire
For alloy you need pure argon
John

[BK]

It looks like I'm staying with gas, cannot alter the polarity on this early model mig (there was no gasless wire when it was built), but I did find this, small throw away bottles.
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/400226658526?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649#ht_1008wt_662

That might solve the problem, thanks for the input.

[Davo J]

In that link I posted above, the guy said he found no difference with polarity, so it would be worth a try if you can get some wire cheap. You never know you might think it's fine to use as some people do.

I got one of those bottles with that welder I swapped, but have not used it so I cant comment on it.
Did you read the fine print in the ebay add?
Ideal for that quick welding job might get between 12 to 20 minutes continuous welding/bottle
I think it would be cheaper to stick to renting, or you will be throwing bottles over your shoulder like spray paint cans on a full size job.

The line to use it is similar in looks to air line off air shocks on a car.


Dave

[DavidA]

I use Air Products for my shield gas. Last time I renewed the 5 year contract it was around £140.

BOC won't even consider it unless you are a company.

Dave.

[Sorekiwi]

I've used CO2 as well as the Argon mix, and the CO2 works well.  I bought the bottle, but its the same one they use for beer, and its cheap. 

[dickda1]

I use argon for TIG and a bottle lasts a good while.  Argon or Argon/Helium works well with most metals including aluminum.  If you buy a used bottle, check for a date stamp on the side.  Over here in the States, bottles are supposed to be hydraulically tested every 5-7 years.  The welding shop will hit you up for a extra charge if you bring an outdated bottle.
-Dick

[Davo J]

Over here the bottles need checking every 10 years. I have tried strait Argon when I was desperate for mig welding steel, and while it works, you get a cold weld so it's not suited.

Dave