Webley Service Air Rifle MKII

[GerryB]

G.Day Each,
I am in the throws of turning a .25 Barrel to fit the Webley Service Air Rifle,due to the fact that there was not one with it when purchased in 1960.
It only came with two Barrels,a .22 and a .177.
The Gun Dealer from whom i purchased it explained to me at the time that .25 Barrels were very scarce due to the current Firearms Law that states 'Air Wepons over .23 in Caliber have to be Registered as a Firearm' so as most of the Webley Service Ar Rifles that were used by the Forces in the Empire for training purposes, were brought back to England by various personnel who then threw away the .25 Barrel as they did not want the trouble of obtaining a Firearm Certificate and the fact that you did not need a permit for an AIr Rifle up to .22 Cal.
Although funny enough you did not require a permit to purchase .25 Pellets.
Back to the Barrel.
I was given  a .25 Barrel by  good friend of mine.
It originally was a Stevens Barrel from  a single shot Rolling Block Rifle.
Mind you the bore is not worth writing home about,very cruddy at the moment.
I have managed to turn the outer dia.down to .6" which is required to be level Dia for the first 10'' from the breach face, in order to locate the Barrel in the securing arrangement.
Then I have to set it up to turn a slight taper down to the Muzzle.
The overall length will be shorter by 2" compared to the two other Barrels but then the there is a difference of 1/8' between the original two.
Will get some photo's done for the future.
GerryB

[doubleboost]

Hi
Gerry
Looking forward to some pictures
I love old air rifles
John

[Stilldrillin]

Gerry.

As John says........ 

It would be nice to see all three barrels. Also the action & stock. 

Pleese! 

David D

[GerryB]

G.Day Each,
Sorry for the delay in providing a few Pictures but i have had a problem with the Lathe that needed sorting out first.
All is now well so should be in the illustration business soon.
GerryB

[GerryB]

Well here's the pictures i promised.
The first is the Rifle complete with a .22 Barrel.
Because the Piston go's to the rear (in a similar fashion to the Webley Air Pistol) it makes the overall length of the Rifle much shorter.
The 2nd picture shows the Rifle with the 2 Barrels that i had originally plus the .25 Barrel which is in the making.
The 3rd 4th and 5th pictures speak for them selves.
You may notice a strange item about 2" in the front of the Bolt Locking Collar.
This is a safety arrangement that stops the Piston from operating until the Barrel is locked in position and ready to fire.
You will also note a Safety Catch to the rear of the Trigger.
The use of Piston Rings instead of the usual Leather Washer is i believe most unusual.
You have to lubricate it with mineral Oil which sometimes causes a Diesel effect giving a Blue Smoke to expel after a shot.
GerryB

[johnbaz]

Crumbs Jerry

Your mk2 Service rifle is in fantastic condition 

Mine's a bit... er.. more worn 





I only have the 22 barrel and the ball from my bolt has been snapped off but I have the drawings to make a new one- I can't dop this until I can clear my garage out to get to the lather though 


Cheers, John 

[GerryB]

G.Day John,
No i have not forgotten you,many thanks for the information on your Webley II.
I think its in very good condition.
You must remember that these rifles were well used by the Army for training purposes for which they were made.
The cost of production would not have made them a  competitive unit in comparison with the many units imported at the time so if the Army had not placed an order for them i do not think we would be looking at any of them now.
It must be remembered that these units came back to England in the luggage of retiring personal from the old Empire.
I remember when i lived in Stratford on Avon that the units came on the market at quite a high price from Gentleman who had retired from the Indian Army.
Look after it,it will not be replaced.
GerryB

[GerryB]

I do not know what has happened to the Photo's of the Webley II that i had included at the end of my article but i do not seem to be able to see them.
The Photo's of Johns Rifle are ok.
I have tried to view them,but i have failed.
Maybe i will have to load them up again.
GerryB

[spuddevans]

Hi Gerry,  I think that there has been a problem with some of the attached images when we moved to a new server and also to the updated forum software. Eric's been working on solving the few glitches like this one.


Tim

[andyf]

Looks like they were casualties of the recent change of server, Gerry. Think of them as a sacrifice for the greater good of the forum.

They seem to have been sent as attachments; had you loaded them on Photobucket or similar and included their IMG codes in your posts, they would probably still be visible.

Andy

[GerryB]

Thanks Guys,i understand the problem.
It would seem that i will have to have a look at 'Photobucket'
GerryB

[andyf]

Funnily enough, a friend's wife has just given me a Webley & Scott Service Rifle Mk II (.22 barrel) which belonged to her Dad. I hinted about giving it a good home 15 years ago, but she thought it might be useful to wave at intruders. She's realised at last that she's no Annie Oakley, but it has deteriorated sadly in the meantime 

I like the neat safety detent which stops finger-crushing accidents while you cock and load it.

Andy 

[GerryB]

G.Day Andy you lucky so and so.
Out here we use a term that dose not go down well with some people who do not understand the Aussie humour.
Don't be afraid to refurbish your new acquisition it is beautyfully designed and made as you will appreciate when you dismantle it.
I did try to send this article the other day only the Water boys are digging up the local road to lay a new pipe and i think they are disturbing the Phone Lines as my phone is dead also my internet connection keeps dropping out.
I made the connection on the breach end of the .25 barrel i have been making.
It is very precise in its form as the breach has to not only make a good air tight connection but the Bolt has to rest close to the housing.
I now have to machine the slight taper on the barrel that goes from about 1" in front of the barrel housing that is .6" in dia  to about .550" at the muzzle.
I have started to set it up in the South Bend and will post a few photo's when done.
GerryB

[andyf]

Hi Gerry,

Yes, I'm a lucky sod (our US cousins will think I'm talking about the lawn, so that's OK).

Here are a couple of pics. As you will see, it's been got at by the rust worm, and the piston-puller links are unblued; they don't seem to be original.





Cocking and the trigger action seem nice and smooth, but I suspect it is a little short of puff; probably the piston seal.

I don't know what to do about the rust. What do you suggest?

Included in the gift was a funny little .177 air pistol with its barrel through the middle of the cylinder and the cocking lever along the side. It is a pity that it is so rusty as to be beyond restoration.

Andy

Andy

[GerryB]

G.Day Andy,
 would not attempt to load the Action unless you know the condition of  the Piston/Cylinder.
The Webley Service II does not have the usual Leather or Modern Plastic Piston Seal but has Piston Rings.
Now if the Cylinder and the Piston Assy. are corroded then you will have to dismantle it carefully.
You will probably have to make a Spring holding tool something on the lines of a Sash Cramp to hold the spring under tension during the disassembly.
If you know someone who is into Air Rifle dismantling it would be an advantage to get him to remove the Spring.
It is possible that the Cylinder is in good condition as it is not open the the outside world except for the spring and was usually oiled with Mineral Oil.
There are quite a few types of Blueing procedures on the market for the amateur.
Try your local Firearms Dealer.
The cocking piece you think is not original looks the part,it may have been replaced by an unblued part.
I will  try to replace the Photo's of my Rifle.
Am in the throws of finding out how to load them using PhotoScape.
GerryB

[fixerup]

That is a very good tip Gerry,
When I was younger, my pellet gun was not working well, so I though let just take it apart and have a look what needs fixing.
When I unscrewed the cap, the spring came out so fast and the little latch caught my hand.
 I had this spring assembly dangling from my hand and it was very well hooked in my skin. Not only it was very painful at the moment it was very painful getting it out. 30  some years later I can still see the scar.  So be very very careful  .
Cheers!
Phil

[andyf]

Gerry, I'd already cocked, loaded and fired it before your advice. Still, no apparent harm done.

I did know about confining the spring before dismantling, and then letting it expand under control. In my youth, I've taken a few airguns to bits; when I was 9 my parents gave me £1 to go and buy my first air rifle from the local newsagent. Elf'n'Safety was a bit laxer in 1957...

But this is the first airgun I've bought in 45+ years, though I still have my old .177 BSA Cadet Major.

Piston rings, eh? Those sound interesting!


Andy

[johnbaz]

Hi Gerry,

Yes, I'm a lucky sod (our US cousins will think I'm talking about the lawn, so that's OK).

Here are a couple of pics. As you will see, it's been got at by the rust worm, and the piston-puller links are unblued; they don't seem to be original.





Cocking and the trigger action seem nice and smooth, but I suspect it is a little short of puff; probably the piston seal.

I don't know what to do about the rust. What do you suggest?

Included in the gift was a funny little .177 air pistol with its barrel through the middle of the cylinder and the cocking lever along the side. It is a pity that it is so rusty as to be beyond restoration.

Andy

Andy

Hi Andy The pistol sound like an Accles and Shelvoke 'Warrior'

Does it look like this??

http://www.gunstar.co.uk/images/Gun-Images/Accles-and-Shelvoke-Ltd-warrior-A25023.jpg

You would probably be amazed at what can be done with rusty old guns, the restorers use brick/masonary cleaner to remove rust and traces of old bluing and then send them off for hot blue/blacking, they come back sometimes better than the original factory finish 


John 

[andyf]

Hi Andy The pistol sound like an Accles and Shelvoke 'Warrior'

Does it look like this??

http://www.gunstar.co.uk/images/Gun-Images/Accles-and-Shelvoke-Ltd-warrior-A25023.jpg

You would probably be amazed at what can be done with rusty old guns, the restorers use brick/masonary cleaner to remove rust and traces of old bluing and then send them off for hot blue/blacking, they come back sometimes better than the original factory finish 


John 

Yes John, that's the same air pistol, though my rusty old one has Bakelite grips.

Acid would doubtless shift the rust, but would leave very heavy pitting. The Webley & Scott Service Mk II shows some pitting, which, while not nearly so extensive, would require a jumbo tin of elbow grease.

Andy

[wildman692]

I'd love to have a go at the pistol rather than you giving up on it. Sounds just what I need to keep me busy this winter.

[andyf]

Sorry, the pistol is already spoken for.

Though made by Accles and Shelvoke, who still make humane killers for slaughterhouses, it is marked "F Clarke's Patent". I wonder if that's the same Birmingham gunsmith who patented an early forerunner of the Teasmaid back in 1902.

Andy

[johnbaz]

Hello Andy

Would you like to sell the Webley?

Or possibly trade for a working gun??

I have a Co2 rifle with silencer and scope in good working order if you would be interested..





It's boxed and comes with it's manual and i'll throw some Co2 cart's in as well 

Almost forgot to say- There are no leaks on this rifle..



Regards, John 

[Ausy]

Hi I am a new member to this site and have a particular interest in the Webley Service Mk2 air rifle which I have one, an early 3rd series
I noticed that Gerry B also a long time member has an interest in these air rifles and lives in the same State in Australia as I do, I was
wondering if he still has an interest in these air rifles would he like to correspond.
cheers
Ausy

[vtsteam]

He hasn't been active on the site for 7 years. Try PMing him, maybe he'll get an email notification, assuming he has that feature turned on and the same email address he had back then.

[Ausy]

thanks for your reply vtsteam, how do I go about getting Gerry B's email address?
cheers
Ausy