Author Topic: Fan to blow away milling chips - Help needed  (Read 17177 times)

Offline David Morrow

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Fan to blow away milling chips - Help needed
« on: November 24, 2011, 09:01:54 PM »
I have a small Sherline CNC mill. It really throws out a lot of chips. At first I just brushed them away but that meant sitting there the entire time while it was running. Next, I used a vacuum connected to some Loc-line which meant I could get in really close to collect the chips but the noise of the vacuum and the mill just became deafening. After that, I used flood coolant but that gets really messy.

So, now my thoughts are taking me to possibly using a fan - think blow dryer sort of fan ( without the heat ). Something that I could also direct through the Loc-line to direct the air. Something quiet, and low voltage or just plug into the wall would be ideal. I'm happy to make up adapters, shrouds, or whatever I need to make it all work.

This is my vacuum system which I would likely re-purpose to fan use :
http://www.ldrider.ca/cnc/vacuum/vacuum.htm

And the flood coolant :
http://www.ldrider.ca/cnc/coolant/coolant.htm

Offline jiihoo

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Re: Fan to blow away milling chips - Help needed
« Reply #1 on: November 25, 2011, 05:00:02 AM »
Hi David,

How about using an airbrush compressor? They are reasonably priced and reasonably quiet (55 - 62 dBL, a typical vacuum cleaner is 75 dBL or above). John-Som has two good ones listed here: http://start-model-engineering.co.uk/machines-and-tooling/air-compressor/ (AS06 and AS09). John uses them to power steam engines.

I have the AS09 and occasionally use it for blowing air on the cutter to clean chips away (think pocketing...). It works well as these kind of compressors produce a lot of air volume as long as the pressure requirement is low. I believe you could attach it to your lockline system; my nozzle is a 4(?) mm brass tube held in place by an old dial indicator holder.

The amount of air produced by the AS09 is more than sufficient. It might be that the cheaper and even more quiet AS06 would also be enough; I don't know. Both are small enough to hide under a desk (just keep the swarf away as the designers probably didn't have a metalworking shop environment in mind when designing them :-)

Cheers,


Jari

Offline DaveH

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Re: Fan to blow away milling chips - Help needed
« Reply #2 on: November 25, 2011, 05:59:31 AM »
David,

One of the best ways I have found  to get rid of the chips, is to use the air in a non continuous manner.

Such as Puff .................Puff .................Puff ..................Puff

Reminds me of that song Puff the magic dragon.
 :beer:
DaveH


(Ex Leicester, Thurmaston, Ashby De La Zouch.)

Offline Zephyrin

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Re: Fan to blow away milling chips - Help needed
« Reply #3 on: November 25, 2011, 12:13:52 PM »
Hi
in the workshop, at work, mechanicians use a continuous flow of air to cool mill and blow chips, they have a tap in the wall with compressed air;  clearly less messy than oily coolant.
However, how to get rid off all those chips peppered everywhere in the workshop, by pushing them under the carpet of course.
 Francois

Offline Chazz

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Re: Fan to blow away milling chips - Help needed
« Reply #4 on: November 25, 2011, 03:39:49 PM »
I use a pressure reducer to about 15LBS off our compressor to a loc-line mister system (with out the coolant).

Cheers,
Chazz
Craftex CT129N Mill & Craftex 9 x 20 CT039 Lathe

Offline fatal-exception

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Re: Fan to blow away milling chips - Help needed
« Reply #5 on: December 01, 2011, 05:20:40 PM »
How about an aquarium pump. I think Hoss over there on the cnc zone uses one or more on his tricked out mini mill.

I don't worry about the chips anymore. I built a full plexiglass enclosure for my CNC router...close the doors and hit start. Vaccuum it out when done...  :headbang:

Offline David Morrow

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Re: Fan to blow away milling chips - Help needed
« Reply #6 on: December 01, 2011, 05:35:32 PM »
How about an aquarium pump. I think Hoss over there on the cnc zone uses one or more on his tricked out mini mill.

I don't worry about the chips anymore. I built a full plexiglass enclosure for my CNC router...close the doors and hit start. Vaccuum it out when done...  :headbang:

But, as the mill cuts deeper, the chips accumulate in the cut path. They run through the cutter on each successive pass and give as much poorer finish as they are ground in between the cutter and workpiece. I used to use floor coolant to flush them away but it's a bit too messy. The finish without re-cutting the chips is noticeably better.


Offline DaveH

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Re: Fan to blow away milling chips - Help needed
« Reply #7 on: December 02, 2011, 02:59:59 AM »
But, as the mill cuts deeper, the chips accumulate in the cut path. They run through the cutter on each successive pass and give as much poorer finish as they are ground in between the cutter and workpiece. I used to use floor coolant to flush them away but it's a bit too messy. The finish without re-cutting the chips is noticeably better.

Dead right David,  :thumbup:

Also less chance of breaking the small cutters.
 :beer:
DaveH
(Ex Leicester, Thurmaston, Ashby De La Zouch.)

Offline kvom

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Re: Fan to blow away milling chips - Help needed
« Reply #8 on: December 02, 2011, 11:17:37 AM »
A lot of vacuums will also blow air by attaching the hose to the exhaust.  Then you can use the same gear.

Offline steamboatmodel

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Re: Fan to blow away milling chips - Help needed
« Reply #9 on: January 20, 2012, 12:15:50 PM »
You want to be very careful that you do not drive chips were you don't want them, ie in your eye, into the lead screw nut or under seals.
Regards,
Gerald.
Be wary of strong drink. It can make you shoot at tax collectors--and miss. Lazarus Long

Offline Swarfing

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Re: Fan to blow away milling chips - Help needed
« Reply #10 on: January 20, 2012, 03:12:38 PM »
How about a fridge compressor? quiet and probably free from the dump?
Once in hole stop digging.

Offline sparky961

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Re: Fan to blow away milling chips - Help needed
« Reply #11 on: January 20, 2012, 04:11:49 PM »
I've also thought about the whole "puff, puff" idea.  You don't need 100psi blowing all the time and having your compressor running overtime, but a low pressure stream doesn't loosen chips stuck in corners either.

Especially for those with CNC machines, I'm thinking to use a solenoid valve and have it under control of your machine at full shop air pressure.  That way you can put your cleanouts right into the program - even make a "cleaning pass", if you want.

-Sparky

Offline Pete.

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Re: Fan to blow away milling chips - Help needed
« Reply #12 on: January 20, 2012, 04:49:44 PM »
Rather than a low pressure air jet why not a high-pressure, low volume jet, delivered through something like a football inflator nozzle or blunted hypodermic needle? Will shift any chips and carry them away without using a lot of air. You might even be able to run it off a large fridge compressor which would run quiet.

Offline Weston Bye

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Re: Fan to blow away milling chips - Help needed
« Reply #13 on: January 20, 2012, 07:54:27 PM »
 I have always been wary of blowing the chips "away".   I find that the place called "away" sometimes becomes a place where I wish the chips weren't.  I only use a white bristle paintbrush or a vacuum for removing chips.
Weston Bye
Practitioner of the Electromechanical Arts.
author of The Mechatronist column
Digital Machinist magazine

Offline Ashlyn Katarzyna

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Re: Fan to blow away milling chips - Help needed
« Reply #14 on: February 05, 2012, 12:23:38 AM »
How about an EDF Jet motor?  They are about $13 to $400. Used to power to ducted fan RC planes.  If you put a ESC, battery and a radio control unit with it you could run it remotely of course a little tinkering with it and you could do all kinds of things!http://www.hobbypartz.com/edfmotors.html


Offline John Hill

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Re: Fan to blow away milling chips - Help needed
« Reply #15 on: February 05, 2012, 06:45:48 PM »
David,

One of the best ways I have found  to get rid of the chips, is to use the air in a non continuous manner.

Such as Puff .................Puff .................Puff ..................Puff

Reminds me of that song Puff the magic dragon.
 :beer:
DaveH

Hmmmm, another use for the shaper,  pumping a bellows! :lol:
From the den of The Artful Bodger

Offline Springbok

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Re: Fan to blow away milling chips - Help needed
« Reply #16 on: March 12, 2012, 02:00:29 PM »
Hi
Absolutely new to this forum but got 50yrs of engineering behind me could I recomend that you never blow chips if MDF  Fibreboard or any wood chippings,  think of your eyes and lungs.  Have you a small area outside the workshop that you can create a very small shed insulated with say the material for roof insulation a pipe going into the workshop aimed at work you could have the switch inside the shop so no problems.

Bob
 :beer:

Offline Lew_Merrick_PE

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Re: Fan to blow away milling chips - Help needed
« Reply #17 on: March 13, 2012, 12:22:37 PM »
David,

What I usually do when dealing with potentially packing swarf is place an air nozzle (loc-line type) pointing from an appropriate direction at the cutter (throttled to something like 40 psi) with a vacuum line (this is where that big triangular piece that never seems to have an application comes in handy) on the other side of the cutter.  The vacuum line picks up whatever the pressure line removes (and helps keep things moving in addition to the "blow").  My "trick" has been to mount my compressor and big shop vac (not having sprung for a real stationary vacuum cleaner) in an insulated cabinet (6 inches of fiberglass insulation seems to do the trick) that reduces the noise to an acceptable level.  ???

Offline David Morrow

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Re: Fan to blow away milling chips - Help needed
« Reply #18 on: March 13, 2012, 12:37:34 PM »
David,

What I usually do when dealing with potentially packing swarf is place an air nozzle (loc-line type) pointing from an appropriate direction at the cutter (throttled to something like 40 psi) with a vacuum line (this is where that big triangular piece that never seems to have an application comes in handy) on the other side of the cutter.  The vacuum line picks up whatever the pressure line removes (and helps keep things moving in addition to the "blow").  My "trick" has been to mount my compressor and big shop vac (not having sprung for a real stationary vacuum cleaner) in an insulated cabinet (6 inches of fiberglass insulation seems to do the trick) that reduces the noise to an acceptable level.  ???

I'm doing some of that now with the compressor and my old Lok-line that was used for liquid coolant that I don't use anymore ( too messy ). What I've been thinking though is get a small shop vacuum for the next room and plumb in two lines - one for the suction port and one for the blowing port. That way I just use one machine. Which proves that old adage wrong - that you can't suck & blow at the same time.

Offline Lew_Merrick_PE

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Re: Fan to blow away milling chips - Help needed
« Reply #19 on: March 14, 2012, 11:21:46 AM »
David,

What I usually do when dealing with potentially packing swarf is place an air nozzle (loc-line type) pointing from an appropriate direction at the cutter (throttled to something like 40 psi) with a vacuum line (this is where that big triangular piece that never seems to have an application comes in handy) on the other side of the cutter.  The vacuum line picks up whatever the pressure line removes (and helps keep things moving in addition to the "blow").  My "trick" has been to mount my compressor and big shop vac (not having sprung for a real stationary vacuum cleaner) in an insulated cabinet (6 inches of fiberglass insulation seems to do the trick) that reduces the noise to an acceptable level.  ???

I'm doing some of that now with the compressor and my old Lok-line that was used for liquid coolant that I don't use anymore ( too messy ). What I've been thinking though is get a small shop vacuum for the next room and plumb in two lines - one for the suction port and one for the blowing port. That way I just use one machine. Which proves that old adage wrong - that you can't suck & blow at the same time.

The thing to remember is that, if the vacuum end of things starts to get plugged, you lose the air supply side of things -- or if the air supply side of things gets plugged, you lost the vacuum side of things.  In order for this to work, you will want (need) accumulators on both sides of the equation (this being the voice of experience).

Also, I have found that a length of 1/4 inch OD X 1/8 inch ID polyurethane tubing wound with 16 gauge copper wire (left over from a small job) with a nozzle (mine is aluminum) with a 1/64 inch orifice (only the last .020 or so is drilled at that size) works quite nicely for the "air supply" side of things.  The copper wire "overwind" lets me aim it wherever I wish.  I wound that as if it were a spring on a ø.230 mandrel at (about) a .200 (or so) pitch.