Author Topic: Layout software?  (Read 7962 times)

Offline Brass_Machine

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Layout software?
« on: August 30, 2012, 08:47:21 PM »
So..... I am going to attempt designing a circuit for a Christmas present I have in mind for my kids, nieces and nephews. Since I am used to designing my models/parts etc in CAD, I kinda want to do this on the PC.

What is a good FREE design program for laying out a schematic?  I have started looking, but I am not sure which one is good.

Eric
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Offline Country Bubba

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Re: Layout software?
« Reply #1 on: August 30, 2012, 09:00:05 PM »
I use Eagle and they have a "lite" version that is freeware. Fully function for up to a 2 sided board and I forget the max size.
You can then use an ULP (user language program) to make isolation cuts to a G-code file (again freeware). The ULP can be found at either the Eagle site or there is a yahoo group (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pcb-gcode/).
At this point in time, I recommend you do a google and find a 5.x version of Eagle as they changed the numerical calculations in V6 and the ULP is not completed at this time!  :zap:
Art
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Offline sparky961

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Re: Layout software?
« Reply #2 on: August 30, 2012, 10:12:24 PM »
I'll second the vote for Eagle.  I don't use it much anymore, but I used it a lot before 2005.  Some parts of the interface take a bit of getting used to, but once you do it will do pretty much anything you need for a PCB and schematic.

Some tips from memory...

- Learn how to create your own library of parts/symbols/devices early on.  This will save you from using components that aren't really meant for what you're trying to do and it isn't that hard.
- Make sure that your board and schematic stay in sync.  I remember there are some things that you can do that will screw that up, but can't recall exactly what.
- Learn to route your boards by hand.  I have seen many "auto-routed" boards that not only look horrible but they're way more complex than they need to be.
- Don't make your traces any smaller than they need to be and if you're making the boards yourself you may want to modify the library to have bigger pads/lands to make etching and manufacture easier.

I'd be glad to try and answer any questions you may have if you take this route.  I even have a few libraries and examples that may be useful.

-Sparky

Online Bluechip

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Re: Layout software?
« Reply #3 on: August 31, 2012, 03:37:39 AM »
Hi Eric
 
Not quite sure what you're after ..  :scratch:
 
I use Eagle for schematics but never got to grips with the autorouter .. so I do the PCB layout manually.
 
So, for the actual PBC I use this one: Free download, no size restriction AFAIK, does 2-sided but never tried it.
 
http://expresspcb.com/
 
Very easy, it has to be for me to get my head around it.
 
Made quite a few PCB's with it. OK for me.
 
Dave
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Offline clivel

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Re: Layout software?
« Reply #4 on: August 31, 2012, 01:45:02 PM »
Eagle is an excellent program. I used it in earnest for about six months a number of years ago producing some large multi-layered boards jam packed with surface mount components. The weakest link was the component library (but that may have improved by now), so if you do decide to try it, definitely do as Sparky suggests and learn to create your own components. They are very quick to create once you get the hang of it, far faster than trying to find a suitable component in the included library which turns out to never be quite right.

Prior to purchasing Eagle I also used http://expresspcb.com/ it was great for simpler double sided boards that were only going to be needed in small quantities, but very restrictive in that one was locked into having to order the boards from ExpressPCB, although at the time I found their prices not too unreasonable and their service very good.

Another program that I have heard good things about is KiCad http://www.kicad-pcb.org open source and completely free with no restrictions. Although I have not personally used it, as I no longer have access to a commercially licensed version of Eagle, I would seriously consider giving KiCad a try if I need to design a board that exceeds the limitations of the free version of Eagle.
Clive

Offline Brass_Machine

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Re: Layout software?
« Reply #5 on: August 31, 2012, 01:49:58 PM »
well... not so much concerned with designing a board right now as drawing a circuit.

Eric
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Offline raynerd

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Re: Layout software?
« Reply #6 on: August 31, 2012, 03:03:36 PM »
Eagle for me as well.

There is also a really good one on linux distro that someone was once showing me. forget its name and never used it myself but it looked nice and straight forward when I watched this chap using it for a good half hour.

Chris

Offline sparky961

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Re: Layout software?
« Reply #7 on: August 31, 2012, 11:47:07 PM »
Eric,

How complex is the circuit that you're trying to draw out?  And why are you needing to draw it out digitally at this point?  For the first iteration or two, you're probably better off with a pad of graph paper because you're going to make plenty of revisions.

Depending on the complexity, you may want to play around with it in CircuitMaker (not sure where they're at these days with the software) because then you can do SPICE simulation based on graphical component layout.  They have a PCB counterpart (or at least used to) called TraxMaker that can be linked to your circuit design but I never had great success with it.

After a few tries, you should get an idea of the "blocks" in the circuit and can then lay the schematic out that way, and this will to a certain extent also be evident in the PCB.  Doing it this way keeps traces short and components with a lot of interconnections end up being closer together so the board doesn't end up having as many jumpers as traces.  That reminds me, when you do get around to designing the board I have yet another tip - don't be afraid to put a few jumpers in there.  It can really simplify the design and in many cases a single sided board will do the trick just fine.

Can I ask what it is you're designing?  No pressure, just curious. :)

-Sparky

Offline Brass_Machine

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Re: Layout software?
« Reply #8 on: September 01, 2012, 12:53:37 AM »
Eric,

How complex is the circuit that you're trying to draw out?  And why are you needing to draw it out digitally at this point?  For the first iteration or two, you're probably better off with a pad of graph paper because you're going to make plenty of revisions.

Depending on the complexity, you may want to play around with it in CircuitMaker (not sure where they're at these days with the software) because then you can do SPICE simulation based on graphical component layout.  They have a PCB counterpart (or at least used to) called TraxMaker that can be linked to your circuit design but I never had great success with it.

After a few tries, you should get an idea of the "blocks" in the circuit and can then lay the schematic out that way, and this will to a certain extent also be evident in the PCB.  Doing it this way keeps traces short and components with a lot of interconnections end up being closer together so the board doesn't end up having as many jumpers as traces.  That reminds me, when you do get around to designing the board I have yet another tip - don't be afraid to put a few jumpers in there.  It can really simplify the design and in many cases a single sided board will do the trick just fine.

Can I ask what it is you're designing?  No pressure, just curious. :)

-Sparky

Eh... Can't draw worth a c..p.  In my job I do a lot design digitally. I use CAD a lot in my hobbies... Doing it on the PC just seems natural to me.

When I get a little closer to getting this off the ground, I will be doing a post on it. I want to try tackling this one on my own (my way of forcing me to learn electronics)...

Eric
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Offline Troutsqueezer

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Re: Layout software?
« Reply #9 on: September 01, 2012, 11:02:51 AM »
Eh... Can't draw worth a c..p.  In my job I do a lot design digitally. I use CAD a lot in my hobbies... Doing it on the PC just seems natural to me.

When I get a little closer to getting this off the ground, I will be doing a post on it. I want to try tackling this one on my own (my way of forcing me to learn electronics)...

Eric

When you get there, don't be afraid to ask any questions here. You've got some EE's here. I just retired from Intel after many years of dealing with professional schematic capture programs, package and PCB layout programs (nothing I can recommend to you since they were all very expensive).

Dennis
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Offline sparky961

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Re: Layout software?
« Reply #10 on: September 03, 2012, 02:47:39 PM »
<snip> I want to try tackling this one on my own <snip>

Isn't that what brings a lot of us here?  Don't keep us in suspense too long though.  I have a feeling it's going to have lots of LEDs....

My freehand drawing isn't great either, but I sometimes find that putting pen to paper is quicker than learning new software while hashing out an idea.  It's not like you're going to be publishing your sketches in the national science journal after all.  You should see the mess of black ink I have in front of me right now that I used to figure out some recently acquired used motion control components.

Although I recognize that what I do at home is a hobby, I still like to optimize the time I spend doing things to a point because that time is usually limited.  But as always, to each their own.  Use what works for you.

-Sparky

Offline minerva

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Re: Layout software?
« Reply #11 on: September 04, 2012, 01:56:01 PM »
Hi Eric
just to add to Chris's  comment a super program for Linux (therefore freeware :D) is KiCad details can be found here-
http://www.kicad-pcb.org/display/KICAD/KiCad+EDA+Software+Suite
regards
Terry T

Offline John Rudd

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Re: Layout software?
« Reply #12 on: September 04, 2012, 03:07:23 PM »
I'm an advocate of Eagle too...Having produced some pretty good pcb's, I'm still learning tho' :coffee:

I think the most complex one I did was for a switch mode power supply, 13.8v at 15 amps.....Worked a treat :zap:
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Offline Brass_Machine

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Re: Layout software?
« Reply #13 on: September 04, 2012, 11:08:53 PM »
... I have a feeling it's going to have lots of LEDs....

A very good possibility! Am I known for that already??

A good portion of the reason I want to go digital, is to share what I make here (and ask a ton of questions too!). I want to get started on this soon as I think some will like to give it a go as well for presents. Christmas is coming soon!

Eric
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Offline bhowden

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Re: Layout software?
« Reply #14 on: September 06, 2012, 12:14:13 AM »
Funny, I tried Eagle and found it totally non intuitive.  After a very frustrating night I downloaded DipTrace and found it to be far far better.  The eval version has no board size limit but does limit the number of holes.  If you register as a hobbiest I think the limit is 1000 holes.  Has an excellent library and the autorouting works very well.

Brian

Offline kwackers

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Re: Layout software?
« Reply #15 on: September 06, 2012, 04:48:20 AM »
+1 for hating Eagle. I've tried it a couple of times and simply end up not being able to figure out how to do something simple.

All I want is to place a component, select a track size and then click on waypoints between the two connections I'm making.
Autorouters can be ok for initial track placement (less useful for single sided boards which ime they usually make a bit of a hash of), you can then refine the layout by ripping up tracks and relaying them, being able to autoroute single tracks can save a fair bit of time if it's allowed...