Author Topic: Making a Cutter Holding Block  (Read 23419 times)

Offline Bernd

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Making a Cutter Holding Block
« on: February 16, 2009, 03:21:45 PM »
You know how it goes. You plan on making some tooling. Only it's a piece of complicated tooling. I'm talking about the South Bend headstock I'm using to make an indexing device. Here's the link to it.

I've wittled out the piece of aluminum for making the clamp plate that will clamp the spindle tight after indexing. The clamp will incorporate a cotter clamp. I learned about this clamp from Guy Lautard's "Bed Side Reader #1". I'd seen them before but didn't know what they were called.

Well I designed the part with a 3/4" (19mm) diameter cotter clamp. Unfortunately I don't have any kind of drill that large. Now I have several options to make that hole. First is use a faceplate and angle plate to bore out the hole. Here's a representation of how it would be set up.



The other method would be to use a boring head in the mill. Since I don't have a boring head I'll have to use a third method. Make a cutter that will cut a 3/4" (19mm) dia. hole.

Home made cutters a fun to make and you can learn something in the process. I'm going to make a three bladed cutter to drill the hole for the cotter key clamp. But wait a minute I need my index tool finished before I can do that. Kind of a catch 22 here, right. Not really. A very simple tool is going to be made from a piece of 1.875" (47.6mm) hex stock. Hence the name cutter block.

Here's a pic of it in the lathe with center drilled hole in it. When done it will have a 1" (25mm) dia hole through the center.
Since everybody likes lots of pics I figured two would do here.





The reason I scribed the lines on it was I was going to do it in a 4 jaw chuck. Anybody see why it can't be done in a four jaw chuck. Yup, it's six sided. If it were 4 or 8 sided it would work in a four jaw chuck.

Next will be drilling the hole using several different size drills to get up to a hole dia. were I can get the boring bar in. Then the hole will be bore to 1" (25.4mm) dia.

I should have a few more steps done in the next couple of days.

So in one days time I've regressed 3 steps to making my index tool. This how it goes sometimes when making stuff. Could I buy all this equipment?. Of course I could, but fun would that be. Remember you won't have any pics to look at if I had bought all the equipment. You might even learn a trick or two for your next project.

bernd
« Last Edit: February 17, 2009, 10:08:37 AM by Bernd »
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Offline Divided he ad

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Re: Making a Cutter Block
« Reply #1 on: February 16, 2009, 05:11:53 PM »
Well you have got my attention Bernd  :thumbup:



If not only to ponder the limitless uses of pink     Mark out dye   :lol: 



I will honestly be interested in the engineering side of it too though  :dremel:   :) 



Ralph.
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Offline Bernd

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Re: Making a Cutter Block
« Reply #2 on: February 16, 2009, 05:30:37 PM »


If not only to ponder the limitless uses of pink     Mark out dye   :lol: 




Ralph.

Ralph,

We need to talk about you getting an eye exam. It's a deep dark shade of green. You only think it's pink.  :D

Bernd
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Offline SPiN Racing

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Re: Making a Cutter Block
« Reply #3 on: February 16, 2009, 08:12:09 PM »
It looks like the pink was dying to escape the bottle as well!!!!


:P

Cant wait to see where this is going.. Im gonna keep an eye on the cutter design...  :thumbup:
SPiN Racing

Offline sbwhart

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Re: Making a Cutter Block
« Reply #4 on: February 17, 2009, 02:34:18 AM »
Nice one Bernd  :wave: great use of Green mark out die  :thumbup:

A bit  :scratch: of how final job will look like but it will all become clear in time

Cheers

Stew :wave:
A little bit of clearance never got in the road
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Offline Bernd

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Re: Making a Cutter Block
« Reply #5 on: February 17, 2009, 10:08:10 AM »
Stew,

Perhaps I should rephrase the subject line to "Making a Cutter Holding Block".

Mmm...that makes more sense doesn't it?

Bernd
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Re: Making a Cutter Holding Block
« Reply #6 on: February 17, 2009, 11:35:17 AM »
Doesn't that bottle in the first picture say "Dykem girly pink" on it???   :lol:

I was sure it did??


Must be my eyes..... Oh, did I forget to mention that I was medically examined in my infancy and found to be indeed colour blind  :lol:


But it's still pink    :ddb:  :ddb:  :ddb:   :ddb:  :ddb:  :ddb:      :lol:




Ralph.
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Re: Making a Cutter Holding Block
« Reply #7 on: February 17, 2009, 11:37:20 AM »
Any more on the holder design?

I am intrigued about the engineering of this more than the colours used...... Honest  :)





Ralph.
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Offline Bernd

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Re: Making a Cutter Holding Block
« Reply #8 on: February 17, 2009, 04:39:13 PM »
If your in that much of a hurry to see how it functions when complete take a read HERE.

It's not as a detail description as I'm going to do here but should satisfy your curiosity.


And I'm starting to really worry about your Ralph. Likeing PINK and have no lady to keep you on the straight and narrow. One begins to wonder.  :scratch:


 :lol:  :lol:   :lol:    :lol:     :lol:

Dam, my sides are hurting from laughing to much. Your a trip Ralph. :headbang:

Bernd
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Re: Making a Cutter Holding Block
« Reply #9 on: February 17, 2009, 08:07:45 PM »
Quote
If your in that much of a hurry to see how it functions when complete take a read HERE.

Bu64£r.... You tricked me into HMEM!!!!  :doh:    :lol:


I'll wait for the full details, and the video of it working   :poke:     :)


Quote
And I'm starting to really worry about your Ralph. Likeing PINK and have no lady to keep you on the straight and narrow. One begins to wonder. 


Don't you worry your pretty little head about me sweet heart .... I'll be just fine :thumbup:     :lol:     (couldn't resist that!!   :ddb: )


oh, I love this site :mmr:     :D




Ralph.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2009, 12:12:23 AM by Divided he ad »
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Offline Bernd

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Re: Making a Cutter Holding Block
« Reply #10 on: February 17, 2009, 10:18:26 PM »
Don't you worry you pretty little head about me sweet heart .... I'll be just fine :thumbup:     :lol:     (couldn't resist that!!   :ddb: )


oh, I love this site :mmr:     :D




Ralph.

Ok Ralph I just sprayed beer all over over my keyboard with that one.  :D

Bernd
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Offline Bernd

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Re: Making a Cutter Holding Block
« Reply #11 on: February 18, 2009, 06:16:11 PM »
Well it's time to get back on subject here.

After drilling the hole large enough a boring bar is used to bore out the hole. I'm going to make the hole 1.125" (28.57mm) in diameter. I was shooting for 1.000" (25.4mm) but went over. You don't want to make it to big because you won't have a place to put the set (grub) screws. I check how close I was with a digital caliber. These are not good for getting the bore right on size.


Here's why the calibers don't work very good for inside measuring. The blades on the end have a square surface. Although small you really can't get to the point at the which it should be measured. Here's a C-o-C of what I mean.
The points of the blades will touch the sides of the wall at "A" and "B", but not at "C" because of the small flat of the blades.



So in order to get a proper sized hole I made a plug. There are two diameters on it. It's kind of hard to see but the first dia. is .005" (.127mm) smaller than 1.125".



So I use the calibers until I get close to a bore of about 1.125" (28.57mm). When I'm close I use the plug gage.



Now in order to get that last few thousands or tens of thousands I use the top slide to put on a fine cut.

How's that done you ask? I set the top slide over to about 11 degrees from the parallel to the center line of the lathe. This gives a ratio of 5 to 1. In other words when I move the top slide .005" (.127mm) it will move the tip of the cutter .001" (.025mm). So I can put on a very fine cut to the point of being able to move the top slide .001" and move the tip of the cutter .0002" (.005mm). A nice way to be able to put on a real fine cut using a manual machine without a DRO.
Here's a pic of the set up. Although not much to see, you'll notice how far I've moved the top slide toward the lathe center line.


And the end result is that I get the gage to fit with a couple of very light cuts.



Next I had to make a plug that will eventually have a hole through the center  to hold the cutter. The hole can be almost any size. I need one with a .500" (12.7mm) hole for the shank size of the cutter I'm going to make. Again note the angle to of the top slide. I moved it over to 10 degree to give about the same ratio as I did on the holder.



And here are the completed parts for the tool holder.




That's it for now. I need to get some set screws, grub screws for you foreigners, and drill some holes. Until next time.

Regards,
Bernd
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Offline Darren

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Re: Making a Cutter Holding Block
« Reply #12 on: February 18, 2009, 07:14:56 PM »
Foreigners...bah!!

You spelt  "colour" wrong earlier, well wrong for your part of the world, right for us..... :thumbup:

See you know we are right  :lol:

Nice looking job btw, looking forward to seeing more.... :dremel:

You will find it a distinct help… if you know and look as if you know what you are doing. (IRS training manual)

Offline Bernd

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Re: Making a Cutter Holding Block
« Reply #13 on: February 18, 2009, 10:25:59 PM »
Ok I'm passing out two gold stars to Darren. I was wondering when somebody would catch on to my spelling of "colour".  :lol:

Hopefuly I'll get to makeing the cutter this weekend. :dremel:

Bernd
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Re: Making a Cutter Holding Block
« Reply #14 on: February 19, 2009, 12:28:00 AM »
                                             :lol:

Quote
Ok Ralph I just sprayed beer all over over my keyboard with that one.   :D

Bernd
 

 
Drinking while in charge of a computer..... Isn't that an offence??  :scratch:


Now then.... Bad calipers, Plug guages, angled compound slides and ratioed cuts of some old measurement system...... I'm going to have to read this through a few times to absorb it all  :thumbup:


Loads of stuff I never thought about before in there Bernd  :clap:




Keep up the good work... (although I seem to think you have done much of the mechanical part of this post...... Don't know where I got that idea from???  ::)  )




Ralph.
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Offline sbwhart

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Re: Making a Cutter Holding Block
« Reply #15 on: February 19, 2009, 02:15:42 AM »
Nice job Bernd  :thumbup:

Now I see what your up to,

Followed that link to HMEN  saw the posher more serious side of Bernd  ::)

Prefer the  :mmr: side

Cheers

Stew
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Offline Stilldrillin

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Re: Making a Cutter Holding Block
« Reply #16 on: February 19, 2009, 02:19:17 AM »
Angled topslide, Bernd? Nice one!   :thumbup:

I`ve only just got the hang of only taking off half of what is required at each pass.....
It takes far more passes than usual, but unable to go oversize. (Usually).  ::)

David.

David.

Still drilling holes... Sometimes, in the right place!

Still modifying bits of metal... Occasionally, making an improvement!

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Re: Making a Cutter Holding Block
« Reply #17 on: February 19, 2009, 06:03:04 AM »
Quote
but it will all become clear in time
sbwhart
Cant thick of anything more useless than
clear markout dye  ::)
BR


Offline Stilldrillin

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Re: Making a Cutter Holding Block
« Reply #18 on: February 19, 2009, 07:54:27 AM »
Quote
but it will all become clear in time
sbwhart
Cant thick of anything more useless than
clear markout dye
  ::)
BR

 :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

I`ve not commented on the marking out colour........ It`s all been said before I`ve even thought of it........ ::)

BUT, after more than 50 years of using marking blue, engineers blue, always blue......
The thought of clear marking blue is hilarious.......  :clap: :clap:

David.
David.

Still drilling holes... Sometimes, in the right place!

Still modifying bits of metal... Occasionally, making an improvement!

Offline Bernd

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Re: Making a Cutter Holding Block
« Reply #19 on: February 19, 2009, 09:52:55 AM »
Ralph,

I've started to notice the more I write stuff the more little tricks I show that have never been seen or read about.

So, it looks like a small write up about the calibers and the us of a samll angle setting on the top slide to get a finer cut on the lathe is in order. I'll do that right after I finish this project.

Give me a  :poke: if nothing seems to be happening in that direction. :thumbup: after some time has passed of course.  :)

Bernd
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Re: Making a Cutter Holding Block
« Reply #20 on: February 19, 2009, 11:22:10 AM »
David,

Part of my last job was printing, and the annaline inks that we used to use were meths based, and was exactly the same make up as marking out blue. For many years I used a bottle green one, then red, now all I have left is the normal blue. I found the green one was the best, hence it got used up first.
I knew I should have had a gallon bottle of each while it was available.
I suppose I will have to buy some one day.

Bernd,

If possible, in your posts, try to make the tips and tricks stand out by emphasising them. People always understand them better in a real life situation, rather than a set up explanation. Like my little sine tip to get the correct angle, showing how it is put to work in a real machining job.

BTW, do you use 5c collets?

If you do, this is another way to achieve what you are doing

http://littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=3190&category=


John


Offline sbwhart

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Re: Making a Cutter Holding Block
« Reply #21 on: February 19, 2009, 11:43:06 AM »
Hi Chaps

Bin hanging back on this one until I get back to work and check the facts out, we use galons of the stuff per week as a sealant make it up ourselves from Meths, Shellac and Caster oil with a die added for clour to diferentiate products, the colours we used was, blue, red, and green, but we've stopped using the red and green (I think but will check) as the die has been found canceragenic.

Stew
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 :wave:

Location:- Crewe Cheshire

Offline Bernd

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Re: Making a Cutter Holding Block
« Reply #22 on: February 19, 2009, 06:23:27 PM »
Bernd,

If possible, in your posts, try to make the tips and tricks stand out by emphasising them. People always understand them better in a real life situation, rather than a set up explanation. Like my little sine tip to get the correct angle, showing how it is put to work in a real machining job.

Good point. Have to rmember to do that next time.

Quote
BTW, do you use 5c collets?

You'd think with the size shop I have and the equipment that I have that I would own a set of collets. But I don't. :bugeye:

Why, becasue the Logan lathe uses those small 3C collets made by Hardage and the Bridgeport uses the Quick Change tooling. So I have no use for 5C YET.

Quote
If you do, this is another way to achieve what you are doing

http://littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=3190&category=


John



Call me cheap John. I guess I would rather do something like what I'm writing up than buy ready made. Kind of like using C-o-C verses 3D CAD to draw steam engines.  ::)

Bernd
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bogstandard

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Re: Making a Cutter Holding Block
« Reply #23 on: February 19, 2009, 06:27:37 PM »
Bernd,

I wasn't getting on at you about the tool holder, just informing the population that if they did have 5c, there is another method of doing it.

Before I got all my collets, I have been thru the exact process you are doing, to achieve the same goal.


John

Offline Bernd

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Re: Making a Cutter Holding Block
« Reply #24 on: February 19, 2009, 06:27:53 PM »

but we've stopped using the red and green (I think but will check) as the die has been found canceragenic.

Stew

Scientist have disscovered that spit is caneragenic, but only if swallowed over a long period of time. ::)

Bernd
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Offline Bernd

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Re: Making a Cutter Holding Block
« Reply #25 on: February 19, 2009, 06:29:42 PM »
John,

So there is hope for me after all?  :ddb:

Alright. :clap:

Bernd
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Re: Making a Cutter Holding Block
« Reply #26 on: February 19, 2009, 06:37:04 PM »
Almost  :lol:

Offline Bernd

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Re: Making a Cutter Holding Block
« Reply #27 on: February 20, 2009, 08:47:23 PM »
Ok, we're getting closer to actually cutting flutes. I finally have the cutter block finished and the adapter plug that will allow me to hold a cutter with a 1/2" (12.7mm) shank. Plus I've also made the cutter blank.
Hopefully I'll be able to cut the flutes in the blank on Saturday.

This first picture shows all the parts. On the right is the cutter block with three 5/16-18 holes for set screws (grub screws), the cutter bushing which will take the dia. of 1.125" (28.5mm) down to the 1/2" (12.7mm) dia. It also has the holes in it. They 1/4-20. On the right is the cutter blank. It will have three flutes cut into it. The reason I didn't put the screws in the bushing is that they are a bit long. I need to trim them a couple of thou so they will be below the O.D. of the bushing to be able to fit in the bore of the holder.



Here's a close up of the bushing. Notice I've mill a flat down the center. This will help with the burrs that get rasied on the bushing from the set screws that hold it in the cutter block.



Here the cutter blank is inserted in the bushing.



And here it is all assembled ready to be put in the mill vice. And yes I will rememebr to put the screws in to hold the cutter blank.



I'm hoping to have the cutter made tomorrow. I'll post more pics when I'm done.

And I'm starting to get a serious case of  :proj:  :ddb:  :ddb:


Bernd
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Offline Bernd

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Re: Making a Cutter Holding Block
« Reply #28 on: February 21, 2009, 04:41:04 PM »
Last installment of making a cutter block and the making of a three fluted cutter.

Here I'm setting up the depth on the Z axis. I use a piece of paper to tell me when I'm close to touching the part. Then I'll need to go down half the dia. of the part I'm setting the cutter to. I also need to do this on the Y axis. Same procdure. Touch the side and go in half the dia.



I took several cuts until I just touched the pilot OD. Here's the first flute.



And here's what it looks like after a trip around the cutter block. Each index is 120 degrees.

 

After indexing the cutter block 120 degrees 3 times I've got the three flutes roughed out. Next I need to thin down the side edges to about .075" (1.9mm). No set dimension on this. Just make it in proportion to the cutter size. I'm using a height gage to scribe the line that I'm going to mill up to get that .075" (1.9mm) top land.

I'm also going to rotate the cutter blank and bushing a few degrees clockwise to remove the material I need to get to that line.



Here you can see clearly that I have narrowed down the flutes to that scribed line. It takes several trips around the cutter block to get to this step. That is the last flute being cut.



The bushing has some raised material from clamping down with the set screws. So milling that flat spot on the bushing was useless in this situation. The cutter is on the right. More work needs to be done on the cutter so it will cut.



After painting on some layout dye I use a file to file away some material for clearance. You can see the scribe line on one of the flutes. This helps to see how far you've filed.



Notice the tap that is broke off in the hole? Yup, I screwed up. I was going to put a brass pilot in because the one that was turned on the blank was pretty well beat up from milling and filing. So I thought I'd use a 5-40 thread. I even hand tapped it but was a bit to enthusiastic and broke the tap. But since I was only going to use this cutter once I figured it will work without a pilot.

What I've done is coat the cutting surfaces with layout dye again and filing the relief angle on the cutter. You'll want about .010" (.25mm) top land.



I didn't bother to heat treat the cutter since it's going to be a one time use and it will be cutting aluminum. But if I had to drill into a ferrous material I would have heat treated the cutter. I guess I forgot to mention that tool steel was used in the making of this cutter, either water hardening or oil hardening was used. I can't remember what I bought. It's been many years since I purchased the steel.



Well this proves that it cuts. There are chips and it looks like a hole is started. Lets see if it'll make it all the way through.



Yup, made it all the way through.



I've covered a lot of ground here. What I have shown can be used for other things besides making cutters. Although this method of indexing is not precise it will work for something like this. It's useful for putting hex heads on bolts or drilling holes at 60 degree intervals.
The reason I say it's not precise is that the hex stock is not made to very close tolerances and the hole that you drill through the center also needs to be dead center to all the sides. When I checked the bore on this block I found I was off center by .008" (.2mm). One reason is that my chuck in the lathe was off .003" (.07mm). Not good for precision work but good enough for cutter making.

Now back to making the clamp plate for the index head.

Bernd
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bogstandard

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Re: Making a Cutter Holding Block
« Reply #29 on: February 21, 2009, 05:14:42 PM »
Bernd,

Concept proven, cutter made and the job done. :clap:

Nothing else to be said, other than very well done, and very instructive. Even I could make one now.


John

Offline Stilldrillin

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Re: Making a Cutter Holding Block
« Reply #30 on: February 22, 2009, 02:25:02 AM »
Well done Bernd!  :clap:

I`ve thoroughly enjoyed this posting.  :thumbup:

I have made / refurbished milling cutters myself over the years, but I had all the kit, including a Takisawa machining centre with tilting indexing head etc. etc.....

David.
David.

Still drilling holes... Sometimes, in the right place!

Still modifying bits of metal... Occasionally, making an improvement!

Offline Bernd

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Re: Making a Cutter Holding Block
« Reply #31 on: February 22, 2009, 09:41:35 AM »
Thanks guys.

Had I needed to drill more holes of that size I would have purchased the proper tool. But only needing it for a one time hole, I figured why not. Plus it shows you can make that "very" odd size cutter you might need one day.

Hope people can learn somethinfrom this thread that will be of good use to them.

Now it's back to making the cotter clamp.  :)

Bernd
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Offline sbwhart

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Re: Making a Cutter Holding Block
« Reply #32 on: February 23, 2009, 05:36:39 AM »

the colours we used was, blue, red, and green, but we've stopped using the red and green (I think but will check) as the die has been found canceragenic.

 

OK Checked it out its the Green that can be nasty   Blue and Red Ok.  At least you know what to avoid:- but you can't avoid swallowing spit.

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Offline Divided he ad

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Re: Making a Cutter Holding Block
« Reply #33 on: February 23, 2009, 06:00:36 AM »
Good work that man!  :clap:   :bow:   :clap:

I like the detail of the post and the result couldn't be much better ehh?  :thumbup:


Now all I have to do is store where this is and when I need to do something similar (you never know?) I will just have to search a bit and it's all here   :D


Now all that remains is to see what this cotter clamp is     ::)






Enjoyed reading this post Bernd   :thumbup: 




Ralph.

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Offline Darren

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Re: Making a Cutter Holding Block
« Reply #34 on: February 23, 2009, 06:15:19 AM »
Great stuff Brend,

Like Ralph I'll store that idea in memory for later, nice to see it worked for you  :dremel:
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Offline Bernd

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Re: Making a Cutter Holding Block
« Reply #35 on: February 23, 2009, 08:34:21 AM »
Thanks guys.

I can't take credit for this method of making a cutter. This method was written up by Frank McLean in the Wisdom of Frank McLean. It's in a series of books put out by Village Press. The same people that print Live Steam and the two US metal working magazines.

So the credit for the cutter goes to Frank. Unfortunatley he passed away many years ago. He was a shop teacher and upon his retirement he was supposed to write articles for The Home Shop Machinist.

There is also several pages devoted in Guy Lautard's Beside Reader on using a piece of hex stock to make a finger groove cutter. And using a piece of square stock and hex stock for simple indexing.

Much of what I present here has been done before. I just pass it on. Seems like people are more inclined to search the interweb than to sit and take the time to read a book on how to do things. Lets just say I like to pass info on from the written page to the elctronic page with a few pics to help out others.

Bernd
« Last Edit: February 23, 2009, 08:53:38 AM by Bernd »
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