Author Topic: Video of hand cutting a file  (Read 10267 times)

Offline PTsideshow

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Video of hand cutting a file
« on: February 17, 2009, 07:42:21 AM »
Here is a friends video of his progress in hand cutting files.

Yes the old school way, hammer and chisel!
 :coffee:
glen
"The internet just a figment, of my imagination!' 
 
 There are only 3 things I can't do!"
Raise the Dead!
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and I'm working on the first two!
glen

Offline Stilldrillin

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Re: Video of hand cutting a file
« Reply #1 on: February 17, 2009, 08:02:57 AM »
Thanks for showing.....  :thumbup:

Not seen file cutting for many a long year.....

David.
David.

Still drilling holes... Sometimes, in the right place!

Still modifying bits of metal... Occasionally, making an improvement!

Offline Darren

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Re: Video of hand cutting a file
« Reply #2 on: February 17, 2009, 08:36:19 AM »
Very informative, and interesting. I'd never even thought about it  :dremel:
You will find it a distinct help… if you know and look as if you know what you are doing. (IRS training manual)

Offline Bernd

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Re: Video of hand cutting a file
« Reply #3 on: February 17, 2009, 09:22:05 AM »
Very interesting. The guy has great rythem and looks like he's never wacked his hand.

I was wondering how he was able to keep such a consistant pattern. Then on the close up I saw how he did it. The burr rasied by the chisel is used as a stop for the next hit.

Does he also hardens the files or are they files used on wood?

Bernd
Route of the Black Diamonds

Offline sbwhart

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Re: Video of hand cutting a file
« Reply #4 on: February 17, 2009, 10:18:57 AM »
Hi Glen

Thanks for posting this Video  it worthy of a MM Orcar  :ddb:

Those hammers are fearsome tools:- looks as though they were forged from bananas.

Cheers
 :wave:
Stew
A little bit of clearance never got in the road
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Location:- Crewe Cheshire

bogstandard

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Re: Video of hand cutting a file
« Reply #5 on: February 17, 2009, 12:44:56 PM »
It is nice to see old techniques being shown.

Imagine during the industrial revolution, they must have had huge workshops set up, just making hand made files.

A bit different from today, in the time it took him to make one, there were most probably a few hundred thousand machine made ones made worldwide.

I don't think that chap has any chance of becoming a millionaire at that speed of production.

John

Offline PTsideshow

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Re: Video of hand cutting a file
« Reply #6 on: February 17, 2009, 02:35:26 PM »
Yep he made the hammer heads and chisels along with the handles. And the bench with the hold down straps. Don't know if he has worked any that far were he is ready to try them out he is still adjusting his technique, and the different cuts for the different type files.
And your are correct that is what he has described on the spacing.
glen
"The internet just a figment, of my imagination!' 
 
 There are only 3 things I can't do!"
Raise the Dead!
        Walk on water!
                 Fix a broken heart!
and I'm working on the first two!
glen

Offline Twinsquirrel

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Re: Video of hand cutting a file
« Reply #7 on: February 17, 2009, 02:47:12 PM »
Great work and very interesting......

BUT using a file without a handle!!  :jaw:
So many ideas, so little skill

bogstandard

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Re: Video of hand cutting a file
« Reply #8 on: February 17, 2009, 04:12:07 PM »
Actually T,

I use files without handles all the time. But on the other hand, they ain't got no tangs on either.

I use them mainly for when flatting materials prior to bling. I find the holding by the back face of the file down onto the job keeps everything much flatter, plus no handle to get in the way.

John

Offline SPiN Racing

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Re: Video of hand cutting a file
« Reply #9 on: February 17, 2009, 04:46:56 PM »
Im STILL trying to mentally digest that...


I have read about stonemasons who are carving marble requesting specific files for specific cuts.. but never really thought of the process!!!

really really neat video...

Such a simple tool. To not have a clue how it is made..    :doh:
SPiN Racing

Offline PTsideshow

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Re: Video of hand cutting a file
« Reply #10 on: February 17, 2009, 06:31:40 PM »
Here are a couple of links that he used, and the rest of his comments so far.
http://www.hrionline.ac.uk/matshef/unwin/MSfilecutter.htm

http://www.iarecordings.org/compilations/compilations.html

This got me going so over the holidays I came up with these......A filecutters hammer and chisel, and a file I made(which works very well)

Like most, I thought these things woulda taken forever by hand. But with a little insight into the process, its not that difficult. The file in the picture took approx 1.5-2 hrs including forging the blank (5160/old car spring) and heat treating for me to construct. It would be difficult to produce with any kind of profit but a fun tool to make at a demo or meeting etc. A professional filecutter apparently could go up to a couple hundred BPM and more, and at this speed my file (5/8" x 6" and 800 "teeth") would have taken roughly 5 Min. to cut including setup. Hand built wood rasps are still the rage with pro woodworkers and still there are a few people/companys in the buisiness of custom work.

About the file, the one in the pic is actually my second attempt, learned a bunch on the first try. The hammer is "key" to the process, this is probably the biggest thing the first attempt showed me. Because of the position of your body and hands, a straight handle is very painfull on the wrist. The weight of the hammer is what determines the depth of "cut", you dont swing the hammer to build inertia, almost just lift and drop. In this respect, my hammer is a little light(almost 2#), I needed to swing a bit, next hammer to be 5-8#. The first cut (the upcut) is done at about 45-50 deg., I was wandering a bit so I took a sharpie and marked lines every in. or so, this helped me a lot to straighten as I went off course. The "spacing" or indexing of the chisel is really quite easy. As you deliver a blow and make a cut, when the chisel rebounds, you slide the chisel along the surface till it registers against the "back" of the previous cut youve just made,and strike it again, and so on and so on. working from the tip to the tang in direction. In the dvd, it sounds like...at about 80 bpm or so, ticka,ticka,ticka,ticka , the ah sound being the chisel moving. I was getting about an in or so cut before I had to relocate my hand, a pro probably about double that. Once the first cut is on, you take the sharpness off with a smooth file and cut the second row (110 deg) or " the overcut". This raises a diamond shaped "tooth" that does the actual filing. The angles allow every 5-6 teeth to overlap the previous 5-6 cutting before them, this in a "double cut" file as mine. I only cut one side on my first file and when I hardened it it looked like a banana. Cutting both sides really evens out the residual stresses, as well as stress relieving before heat-treating.

The tang in a handle is pointing at your crotch. Chisel is gripped between thumb and forefinger. My chisel has a 60 deg angle of cut and it it symetrical about center, seems to index ok, but I am guessing a bit here...check out the link in the first post about the Hawley family. There are lots of pics to answer these kinds of questions. I made a 7# hammer to-day, this should help with the coarser cuts

Its seems as if I still could use a heavier hammer. The last hammer was a bear to forge for me single handed (7#), so this time I did it a little different. This one is 10#, welding an old ball pein hammer to a 2.5 x 5 piece of 4140, and then shaping a bit with an arc-air torch and grinder. Only took a couple hours this time.

Well, it didnt work very well. There was too much distance from handle to face. As I went from one hammer to another I kept on missing blows and hitting my fingers. Ive now shortened the distance a bit and matched the two. Hopefully this will make swapping easier, everything is equal except the weight

Glen
"The internet just a figment, of my imagination!' 
 
 There are only 3 things I can't do!"
Raise the Dead!
        Walk on water!
                 Fix a broken heart!
and I'm working on the first two!
glen

Offline PTsideshow

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Re: Video of hand cutting a file
« Reply #11 on: February 17, 2009, 06:39:26 PM »
Here is a link top a book on line about files and there history http://www.archive.org/details/fileinhistorydes00henrrich
glen
"The internet just a figment, of my imagination!' 
 
 There are only 3 things I can't do!"
Raise the Dead!
        Walk on water!
                 Fix a broken heart!
and I'm working on the first two!
glen

Offline Brass_Machine

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Re: Video of hand cutting a file
« Reply #12 on: February 17, 2009, 07:12:10 PM »
Wow!   :bugeye:

That is so very interesting. I like to see how things are done old school.

Thanks for posting that!

Eric
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We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.

bogstandard

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Re: Video of hand cutting a file
« Reply #13 on: February 17, 2009, 10:20:08 PM »
Glen,

You didn't tell us in your first post that it was you doing the work. :scratch:

You really are a master metalworker. :bow: :bow:

Now I understand your liking for metal processing books. It had me baffled for a while. :thumbup:


John

Offline sbwhart

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Re: Video of hand cutting a file
« Reply #14 on: February 18, 2009, 01:13:33 AM »
Glen

Thanks for introducing us to the art of file making, and showing us your information source, its easy to forget just how skillfull the old tradesmen were.
 :bow: :bow:

Our son worked in Shefield for a while, and we had the pleasure to visit the cutlery hall the display they had there was fasinating.

Also what people don't realise is that the men worked at these trades from an early age, as a result their bodies developed in a way that reflected their trade, strong upper arms etc, medical people were able to tell what trade a man worked in just by the development of their musles.

Thanks

Again :wave:

Stew
A little bit of clearance never got in the road
 :wave:

Location:- Crewe Cheshire

Offline PTsideshow

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Re: Video of hand cutting a file
« Reply #15 on: February 18, 2009, 06:14:15 AM »
Glen,

You didn't tell us in your first post that it was you doing the work. :scratch:

You really are a master metalworker. :bow: :bow:

Now I understand your liking for metal processing books. It had me baffled for a while. :thumbup:


John

John

Not me John I'm just a putter around and. Kerry is from BC up in the north country. Just don't have time for stuff since I retired. And with geriatric parents and other family members, I have been doing the medi cab and taking care of their houses for the last couple of years. I just didn't know how much free time I had when I had a full time job!  :coffee:

Thanks for the vote of confidence, but I neither have the patience, or the interest other than in the process. It is amazing the way things were done. and even more amazing that somebody could figure out how to do them.   :smart:

glen
"The internet just a figment, of my imagination!' 
 
 There are only 3 things I can't do!"
Raise the Dead!
        Walk on water!
                 Fix a broken heart!
and I'm working on the first two!
glen

Offline Bernd

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Re: Video of hand cutting a file
« Reply #16 on: February 18, 2009, 08:39:36 AM »
Glen


Also what people don't realise is that the men worked at these trades from an early age, as a result their bodies developed in a way that reflected their trade, strong upper arms etc, medical people were able to tell what trade a man worked in just by the development of their musles.

Thanks

Again :wave:

Stew

So the ones that developed large jaw mussels were poilitians?

Bernd
Route of the Black Diamonds

Offline PTsideshow

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Re: Video of hand cutting a file
« Reply #17 on: February 18, 2009, 09:36:07 AM »
 :jaw: yep :jaw:

Remember God's law of L's lawyer's, Lying, and Lip's and since most Politico's are Lawyer's
If in the Lawyer's ,Lips are moving it better than a 90% chance they are lying! So that means if a politico is talking it means they are lying no matter what party affiliation! Remember "it all depends on what the meaning of is is!" As a famous past president once said!  :lol: :lol: :lol:
glen
"The internet just a figment, of my imagination!' 
 
 There are only 3 things I can't do!"
Raise the Dead!
        Walk on water!
                 Fix a broken heart!
and I'm working on the first two!
glen