Author Topic: Beck microscope thing ?  (Read 13189 times)

Rob.Wilson

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Beck microscope thing ?
« on: October 31, 2012, 05:51:59 PM »
Hi Lads

I was given this Beck of London microscope thing today  ,  has a number 31432 on it , dose anyone have any info on what it actually is  :scratch:





I do collect some crap  :lol: :lol:


Rob

Offline dsquire

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Re: Beck microscope thing ?
« Reply #1 on: October 31, 2012, 06:37:37 PM »
Rob

You can always use that to check the quality of your finishes before you take your shiny photos. There will be no excuse for any dull areas in any photos now.  :lol: :lol: :lol:

Nice find by the way.

Cheers  :beer:

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Offline krv3000

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Re: Beck microscope thing ?
« Reply #2 on: October 31, 2012, 06:55:00 PM »
hi rob googel the name with that number and see wat pops up

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Re: Beck microscope thing ?
« Reply #3 on: October 31, 2012, 07:06:10 PM »
It might be a thread counting microscope, used to determine the "fineness" of a textile.
Regards, Marv

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Offline philf

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Re: Beck microscope thing ?
« Reply #4 on: October 31, 2012, 07:09:42 PM »
Hi Lads

I was given this Beck of London microscope thing today  ,  has a number 31432 on it , dose anyone have any info on what it actually is  :scratch:


I do collect some crap  :lol: :lol:


Rob

Rob,

It's quite a nice looking travelling microscope. (& not crap at all) Yours looks to have an X and a Y axis which is unusual - they normally only have an X axis. I guess the magnifying lens swings over the vernier so you can get an accurate measurement in Y. The X axis looks to have a micrometer type dial used in conjunction with a linear scale. There should be a crosshair visible through the eyepiece. Is there another angular scale on the barrel? If there is it can be used for e.g. measuring the angles of screw threads or form tools.

 :beer:

Phil.
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Re: Beck microscope thing ?
« Reply #5 on: October 31, 2012, 07:18:52 PM »
Hi there, Rob,

(I've just had a message that three other replies have been posted while I was composing this - apologies if I've duplicated info.)

Your instrument looks like a two-axis travelling or vernier microscope.  At first glance, it looks to be in excellent condition.

It isn't a model I recognise but Beck's speciality was making custom instruments to the customer's specification.  (They had some carefully worded clauses in their guarantees so they could accept the business but avoid complaints if the client's ideas were too outlandish!)

I have a Beck catalogue or two somewhere here - I'll dig them out and see if they do show anything like the one in your photos.

Please forgive me if any of the following is 'teaching Grannie how to suck eggs'.

There should be engraving on the eyepiece and on the objective.  The eyepiece engraving just gives its magnification, could be as low as x3 up to as high as x20.  My habitual eyepieces are x10.

The engraving on the objective will probably be like this:

10/0.25 and 160/0.17

The first pair are the magnification and the 'numerical aperture', the second pair are the mechanical tube length (in mm) and the thickness of the cover slip (assuming that it's going to be used with a conventional slide-mounted specimen.

Low magnification objectives aren't usually too fussy about cover-slip thickness so they're often marked with a 160/- .  Also objectives designed for metallurgical microscopes are usually designed to work without a cover-slip so they're also marked 160/- and often bear the engraving 'met'.  Objective magnifications can range from x3-ish up to x100-ish but anything over x40 usually needs oil immersion, a film of oil (NOT Nuto 32!) between the objective and the specimen.

Numerical aperture is a measure of the angle of view of the objective.  A high value (i.e. approaching 1) gives good resolution of detail but a small working distance.  Objectives with high magnification also have very short working distances.  If the objective is an oil-immersion type, its numerical aperture can be greater then 1, say up to 1.3-ish.

The overall magnification of the microscope is nominally the objective's value multiplied by the eyepiece's value provided that the tube length is as stated on the objective.  Microscopes often have a draw-tube to permit the effective tube-length to be varied a bit but the draw-tube is usually engraved to show when it's at 160 mm.

I'll have another look at your instrument photos and then come back with some more comments on the stage movements and illumination.

Enough for now,

Best regards,

Pete W.


 
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Pete W.

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Offline Pete W.

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Re: Beck microscope thing ?
« Reply #6 on: November 01, 2012, 05:37:16 AM »
It might be a thread counting microscope, used to determine the "fineness" of a textile.

Hi there, Marv,

You could use a vernier microscope for counting textile threads, if you already possessed one.

However, if you were shopping from scratch for a suitable instrument for that purpose, the traditional device to use would be one of these:



I know this as a 'linen  tester' but there are probably other regional names for it.  It folds up conveniently to put in the pocket.

Best regards,

Pete W.
Best regards,

Pete W.

If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, you haven't seen the latest design change-note!

Offline Pete W.

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Re: Beck microscope thing ?
« Reply #7 on: November 01, 2012, 06:04:17 AM »
Hi there, all,

Here, for interest, are a few photos of travelling or vernier microscopes:

First, a Beck instrument very similar to Rob's.  Historically, Beck moved from a lacquered brass finish to a black enamel and then on to the grey enamel.  On that basis, Rob's instrument is earlier than the one I show.  The number Rob quoted is the manufacturing serial number, not the model number.







Next, a single axis instrument.  I don't know who made this instrument but it was 'badged' by a well-known UK laboratory equipment supplier.





The photos show this one standing with its axis of movement vertical but these single axis instruments could usually also be laid horizontally.  The microscope can be turned and clamped so that it 'looks' down on the object/specimen or horizontally at it, at right angles to the motion axis.

Another variant of the two-axis vernier microscope has one movement axis horizontal and the second vertical but I don't have any pictures of that type.

Best regards,

Pete W.
Best regards,

Pete W.

If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, you haven't seen the latest design change-note!

Offline Pete W.

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Re: Beck microscope thing ?
« Reply #8 on: November 01, 2012, 06:29:49 AM »
Hi there, Rob,

A few more comments on your Beck instrument.

I agree with Phil that it should have a cross-hair graticule (aka 'reticle') in the eyepiece but you might not be able to see it at first!  It will probably be a 'Kellner' eyepiece - that type of eyepiece has a focussing adjustment operated by turning or sliding the very top flange of the eyepiece.  This enables the cross-hairs to be brought into sharp focus.  Once that's done, you leave it be and you then focus the view of the object/specimen (on the glass plate stage) by means of the knurled hand-wheel on the side of the tube-mount.

The classical microscope usually has both a coarse and a fine focus control but vernier microscopes usually have just the coarse adjustment because they don't have very high magnification objectives.  A x10 objective and a x10 eyepiece (overall magnification = 100) is plenty for most purposes.  The working distance of a x10 objective is plenty big enough for you to be able to top-light your object/specimen.

One problem with a single axis instrument is that the object/specimen needs to be supported on the stage with the dimension you're trying to measure accurately parallel to the axis of the carriage movement.  With yours, you can measure in two dimensions and get the desired measurement using Pythagoras!   :lol: 

I seem to have made a lot of assumptions about your instrument - it would be good if you could tell us what objective(s) and eyepiece your instrument has.  Did it come with a box?  They (the boxes) are often very well-made and fitted with places to stow the accessories like alternative objectives.  A common problem is that the key to the door of the box gets lost and then someone butchers the lock to gain access!   :bang:  I tie each of my keys to a trainer lace and tie the other end of the lace to the handle on top of the box!  The box is important - dust is a great enemy of microscopes!

Best regards,

Pete W.

Best regards,

Pete W.

If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, you haven't seen the latest design change-note!

Offline mklotz

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Re: Beck microscope thing ?
« Reply #9 on: November 01, 2012, 11:25:39 AM »
It might be a thread counting microscope, used to determine the "fineness" of a textile.

Hi there, Marv,

You could use a vernier microscope for counting textile threads, if you already possessed one.

However, if you were shopping from scratch for a suitable instrument for that purpose, the traditional device to use would be one of these:

I know this as a 'linen  tester' but there are probably other regional names for it.  It folds up conveniently to put in the pocket.

Pete,

I'm not shopping.  I already have one of the pocket models you showed as well as a genuine thread counting microscope.  The latter is far easier to use for the intended purpose.
Regards, Marv

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Re: Beck microscope thing ?
« Reply #10 on: November 01, 2012, 11:51:04 AM »
Hi there, Marv,

Please can you post a photo of your thread counting microscope?

Best regards,

Pete W.
Best regards,

Pete W.

If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, you haven't seen the latest design change-note!

Rob.Wilson

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Re: Beck microscope thing ?
« Reply #11 on: November 01, 2012, 12:18:21 PM »
Hi Pete  :smart:

Well you sure no what your talking about  :thumbup: ,

It came to me ,well shoved into my hands as is no box and about an 1/8 thick of dust , i had just gave it a quick clean before i brought it in doors . I will take a few better photos of it over the weekend .

The lens at the top has C 45MM E  X6   and the other end is marked 32mm NA. 0.15  .



It dose have cross hairs  , i had a look at a match box and i could see the dot pattern of the printing  :)

The thing is what use could I put it too ? 


Thanks Rob 

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Re: Beck microscope thing ?
« Reply #12 on: November 01, 2012, 02:12:45 PM »
Hi Pete  :smart:

Well you sure no what your talking about  :thumbup: ,

SNIP!

The lens at the top has C 45MM E  X6   and the other end is marked 32mm NA. 0.15  .

MORE SNIP!

The thing is what use could I put it too ? 

Thanks Rob

Hi there, Rob,

If you think that, you haven't seen the ripostes I sometimes get to my posts on the Yahoo microscopy site!   :hammer:

Your 32 mm objective has a magnification of x4, still high enough to be useful.

Folks get carried away thinking huge magnification is an advantage but all they usually get is bigger pictures of a blurred image and near zero working distance.

As it stands, you could use your instrument to measure thread pitches.  Find it a box and put it on a shelf somewhere indoors and one day you'll have one of those eureka moments and say 'I know what I could use to solve this problem!' and the answer will be this microscope.

Most objectives are interchangeable (assuming they're designed for the same tube length) because the Royal Microscopical Society standardised the objective mounting geometry for both objectives and eyepieces (aka 'oculars').  Here's the spec for the RMS objective thread:



Here's another version:



Interestingly, they don't seem to agree!   :bang:  The statement that most manufacturers comply with this spec was true when those documents were written, it's less true nowadays but true enough to apply to most affordable kit on the amateur market.

I think I've got a scan of a Beck catalogue page showing several more vernier microscopes but feeding time has just been called at the Pete W. zoo so I'll post this now and maybe come back later.

Best regards,

Pete W.
Best regards,

Pete W.

If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, you haven't seen the latest design change-note!

Offline srm_92000

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Re: Beck microscope thing ?
« Reply #13 on: November 01, 2012, 02:43:37 PM »
Hi Pete  :smart:

Well you sure no what your talking about  :thumbup: ,

It came to me ,well shoved into my hands as is no box and about an 1/8 thick of dust , i had just gave it a quick clean before i brought it in doors . I will take a few better photos of it over the weekend .

The lens at the top has C 45MM E  X6   and the other end is marked 32mm NA. 0.15  .



It dose have cross hairs  , i had a look at a match box and i could see the dot pattern of the printing  :)

The thing is what use could I put it too ? 


Thanks Rob

Absolutely no use whatsoever Rob.
You should just put it in a box and send it to me for safe disposal :clap:
Steve,
I put it back together using all the right parts,
just not necessarily in the right order.:scratch:
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Offline Fergus OMore

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Re: Beck microscope thing ?
« Reply #14 on: November 01, 2012, 04:58:09 PM »
Hi Rob,
You could do what the oldies do and that is put in on your lathe. See Old Ned Westbury's Microscope on the Lathe which was in Model Engineer and is still on the net.

Otherwise, I could always pop down and buy you a pint or three and a dinner at the 'Sweaty Bobbie' in exchange.

Wor Norm

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Re: Beck microscope thing ?
« Reply #15 on: November 01, 2012, 08:07:12 PM »
Well Rob all I can say is if you ever get bored of it....  :wave:

Looks great  :beer:

I love the old microscopes... Got 11 various ones brass oldies through to newer types.... obviously none of them are expensive. Re-conned one a bit the other day... siezed solid but came for pennies  :thumbup:

I'll have to search them out for a photo shoot  :)




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Re: Beck microscope thing ?
« Reply #16 on: November 01, 2012, 09:03:29 PM »
Well Rob, as it has an X and Y axis....  :proj: Convert it into a micro-mini mill. You will be the only kid on the block with one.

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Re: Beck microscope thing ?
« Reply #17 on: November 02, 2012, 12:35:53 AM »
Well Rob, as it has an X and Y axis....  :proj: Convert it into a micro-mini mill. You will be the only kid on the block with one.

I am thinking a CNC'd scope...

 :proj:
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Offline Pete W.

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Re: Beck microscope thing ?
« Reply #18 on: November 02, 2012, 06:31:28 AM »
Hi there,

There are good reasons for putting a microscope on a lathe for some types of work but, with all respect, Rob's new scope isn't the right sort - putting it on a lathe would do away with most of it's particular features.

If you do want to fit a microscope to a lathe, the best sort is usually a stereo microscope, actually two microscopes in one - stereo image, lots of working distance, and the image is the right way up!  (The image given by Rob's scope is inverted, you move the object to the left and the image moves to the right, likewise with up and down.)

Stereo microscopes come up often on eBay and are often configured for boom or long-arm mounting, very amenable to mounting on a lathe.

By the way, Rob, one of my Beck User Manuals gives the working distance of your 32 mm (= x4) objective as 0.88".

I realised that what I wrote in my earlier post about Beck's speciality making custom instrumentation might be mis-construed - that was just a part of their business, they did have a range of several standard catalogue instruments from school microscopes up to advanced research instruments.  Just like their contemporaries, other companies in the microscope and optical instrumentation business.

Best regards,

Pete W.
Best regards,

Pete W.

If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, you haven't seen the latest design change-note!

Rob.Wilson

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Re: Beck microscope thing ?
« Reply #19 on: November 06, 2012, 03:21:59 PM »
 :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: some truly mad ideas lads  :headbang:

Pete . are those stereo microscopes hard to come across ? 

Ralph , i will give you first dibs on it if i decide i have no use for it  :thumbup:   , would be canny if you could take a few photos of your microscopes  :poke: 


Cheers Rob 

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Re: Beck microscope thing ?
« Reply #20 on: November 07, 2012, 08:52:55 AM »
Hi there, Rob,

There are, I suppose, two main routes for buying microscopes these days.  One is eBay and the other is through microscopy club/society sales.  From your posts on Mad Modders, I guess you might not have the spare time to enter the microscopy club/society scene?

I have bought most of our stuff through eBay.  That includes four or five stereo scopes (but then my wife is also a microscopist and we gave one to one of my step-sons).  Personally, I suffer from microscope/ebay addiction, it's a fairly common ailment but your existing addiction to CNC mills might keep you safe from it!   :D

You need to distinguish between stereo microscopes and binocular microscopes - they aren't the same thing.  The stereo microscope is basically two distinct and separate microscopes mounted together at a slight angle.  Each one has its own objective (but see below) and its own eyepiece.  You can generally recognise them by the prism boxes (similar to binoculars - how confusing is that!?!).  The prisms erect the image.  The fact that each eye is seeing a different aspect of the object gives you the 3D or stereo effect.  It IS a real effect, not an optical illusion.  The binocular microscope, on the other hand, has only a single objective but the intermediate image from the objective is viewed via an optical splitter feeding two separate eyepieces.  Each eye sees the same inverted image, there is no stereoscopic effect.

Stereo microscopes usually have low magnification and generous working distance.  Monocular and binocular microscopes can work up to a higher magnification at the expense of losing working distance.  For example, the same Beck catalogue from which I quoted a few posts ago gives this for a 1/6" (4 mm) objective:
Magnification x45, working distance 24 thou.!  I don't think I'd want to be that close to a rotating workpiece unless the environment was very, very well controlled!   :loco:

Historically, microscope manufacturers specified the focal length of their objectives in fractions of an inch and/or mm because the tube length wasn't standardised.  Eventually, a standard tube length was fairly universally adopted and, from then on, they could rate their objectives by magnifying power.

Regarding stereo microscopes - the really modern whizzy hi-tech (and hence expensive) models can have zoom and some have their two optical paths looking through a common (but low-mag) objective.  Most models have a focussing mount and some sort of stage for the object being viewed but there are models configured for 'long-arm' mounting without a stage.

I've been looking for a photo but, so far, the only pix I've found are other peoples, not in the public domain.  You could try a Google.

Microscopy enthusiasts, like Radio Amateurs ('hams') seem to expect to buy cheap and sell dear, I personally don't do well in the market place.  In fact, some eBay sellers, to quote a friend of mine, 'need to take a reality pill'!  What I did was to browse eBay and bid what I thought an instrument was worth to me; if I was outbid, my money was still in the bank.  There IS a learning curve to climb but I guess that also applies to CNC mills!

I hope this helps,

Best regards,

Pete W.


« Last Edit: November 07, 2012, 09:35:29 AM by Pete W. »
Best regards,

Pete W.

If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, you haven't seen the latest design change-note!

Offline Pete W.

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Re: Beck microscope thing ?
« Reply #21 on: November 07, 2012, 10:44:07 AM »
Best regards,

Pete W.

If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, you haven't seen the latest design change-note!

Rob.Wilson

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Re: Beck microscope thing ?
« Reply #22 on: November 07, 2012, 04:57:12 PM »
Hi Pete


Thank you for post , allot of info  :bow: :bow: , and can tell you sure have a thing for microscopes  :med: 

 :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: my addiction to machines is coming to an end ,,,,i am dooooomed ,,,,,,,running out of room  :Doh:

Wonder how much a copy of Hooke's Micrographia would go for .

So what sort of things do you look at through your microscopes ?   can you take photographs of what you see  ?

Thanks Rob

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Re: Beck microscope thing ?
« Reply #23 on: November 08, 2012, 12:38:28 PM »
Hi Pete


Thank you for post , allot of info  :bow: :bow: , and can tell you sure have a thing for microscopes  :med: 

 :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: my addiction to machines is coming to an end ,,,,i am dooooomed ,,,,,,,running out of room  :Doh:

Wonder how much a copy of Hooke's Micrographia would go for .

So what sort of things do you look at through your microscopes ?   can you take photographs of what you see  ?

Thanks Rob

Hi there, Rob,

First of all about Hooke's Micrographia.  Antiquarian books are a financial black hole that, so far, I've managed to avoid!  Despite that, over the years I have built up a reasonable library of books on microscopy.  Hooke's illustrations are amazing, considering that they were all drawn by hand.

On the subject of Hooke, someone I regard as a 'microscopy cyber-mentor' has recently been experimenting with a replica of Hooke's microscope, including illumination by oil lamp (not quite historically accurate because whale oil isn't in ready supply nowadays!   :D  )  Some of his photos, very impressive, are in the photos section of the Yahoo microscopy group.

What do we look at?  Well, most of the observation in our family is currently done by my wife.  When we took up microscopy, we decided that we didn't want to kill and cut up stuff.  Her interest is in pond life and that mostly survives her observations and gets back into the pond.  At the moment, my microscopy time seems to be taken up with 'make do and mend'.  A couple of years ago I bought a Leitz microscope with built-in illumination from an eBay seller in the USA; of course, it was wired for 115 volts so we used it with an autotransformer.  More recently, an orphan base for the same model wired for 240 volts turned up so I bought it and did a base transplant.  Another Leitz microscope I bought arrived in pieces - the helical pinion that operated one axis of the mechanical stage was bent over at a crazy angle and several of the screws that held the linear ball-race guides on the stage had sheared-off.  I assume that it had been accidentally knocked off the laboratory bench!  Spares for that model are only available at professional prices and there was no way I could manufacture a new pinion with its all-in-one shaft.  However, you never know what's going to turn up and an identical pinion (but with a shorter shaft) turned up on eBay from a seller in Canada.  I successfully lengthened the spindle, replaced the sheared screws and the missing 2 mm balls and, voila, a usable microscope.   :ddb: 

A lot of microscopes in amateur use have fairly unusual tungsten filament bulbs.  These are expensive even if replacement bulbs are available and this situation looks likely to get worse with the EU policy to outlaw tungsten filaments.  There's a lot of interest in converting to white LED illumination and I have some ideas on that subject that I hope to put into practice soon.

We suffer from a problem in our household that any horizontal surface soon gets covered with 'stuff'!   :bang:  It's particularly so in the workshop and trying to deal with that and fight-back some bench space isn't allowing much time for microscopy just now.

When I do get back to it, my particular interest is in sand.  We live on the East Hampshire greensand - the thing about that is that it's never green, usually silver or a 'dirty yeller colour'!  I'm told it does look green if you see it in large lumps, say, in a cottage wall.  (Once it weathers down to powdered sand the glauconite that gives it the green colour gets washed away.)  I got into the habit of picking up samples of sand while I was walking the dog on various local tracts of heathland, I used to describe myself as a 'rabbit-hole geologist!  Then I enlisted various globe-trotting friends and acquaintances to bring me back samples from their travels.  The collection currently includes samples from as far afield as Sydney Harbour, Baja California, Saudi Arabia and various places in Africa.  To examine those properly requires that I do some renovation to a petrological microscope, another item on the to-do list.  I think that I did get a bad name with the local Utility Companies - as soon as they dug a deep enough hole in the ground to mend a cable or install a pipe, I'd turn up with a couple of 35 mm film canisters (just the right size) and try to scrounge a sample!

You ask about photos: we do have an eyepiece USB camera but the laptop computer dedicated to that has just died!  It doesn't 'do' many megapixels but the optics of microscopy mean that we don't need lots of megapixels for the stuff we look at.

Maybe I'd get more microscopy done and more results in the workshop if I didn't spend so much time in front of this computer looking at forums and bulletin boards!!  :bang: so I'd better sign off now.

Best regards,

Pete W.


« Last Edit: November 09, 2012, 06:58:55 AM by Pete W. »
Best regards,

Pete W.

If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, you haven't seen the latest design change-note!

Offline DMIOM

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OT - more kit for Rob?
« Reply #24 on: November 27, 2012, 06:28:07 AM »
...... my addiction to machines is coming to an end ,,,,i am dooooomed ,,,,,,,running out of room  .............

Rob, I can't attempt a "Mr Creosote" impression but do you think you might find room for an itsy-bitsy teeny-weeny surface grinder?

Dave  :headbang: