Author Topic: Some help buying a new lathe please?  (Read 34905 times)

Offline raynerd

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Re: Some help buying a new lathe please?
« Reply #25 on: November 15, 2012, 03:35:43 PM »
Nick - I purchased a Unitmat 3 when i was at Uni...first lathe I ever owned! It had every accessory under the sun INCLUDING milling attachment. I sold it for beer money ...makes me weep thinking about it.   :Doh:

Offline andyf

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Re: Some help buying a new lathe please?
« Reply #26 on: November 15, 2012, 04:35:24 PM »
Though probably not as rare as the 1.5MT of the Toyo, Chris, the 0MT used in Cowells spindles isn't exactly common, particularly as it's a shortened version. A true 0MT is 2" long, with diameters of 0.250" at the thin end and about 0.356 at the other. The Cowells version is about 1.125" long, and comprises only the thinner end of a standard 0MT, so if you stick a standard 0MT into a Cowells spindle (or tailstock), about 7/8" of it will protrude.

That said, I suppose the spindle taper wouldn't be relevant if you concoct a screw-on collet chuck for working on your clocks. I'm not sure how things are attached to the Toyo spindle; your picture (which bears a remarkable similarity to the one in a well-known archive) seems to hint that bolts pass through chucks etc from the front into tapped holes in the spindle flange. If so, it wouldn't be too hard to make up a collet chuck for the Toyo, either.

One thing both have in common is the lack of any half-nuts, so the carriage must be moved either by handcranking or under power feed (assuming the Toyo you are looking at comes with fine feed gears). On my Perris (which became the first Cowells 90ME), going any distance with an M10x1mm feedscrew was so exasperating that I made a half-nut for it. Of course, horology probably doesn't entail using the full length of the bed very often.

As the owner of a Perris, I think I'd choose the Toyo. It looks better engineered. But £350 for a Cowells is good value nowadays, and the Toyo looks a nice machine for £300, if someone hasn't snapped it up already.

Andy

Edited to get rid of typos
« Last Edit: November 15, 2012, 07:32:10 PM by andyf »
Sale, Cheshire
I've cut the end off it twice, but it's still too short

Offline raynerd

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Re: Some help buying a new lathe please?
« Reply #27 on: November 15, 2012, 05:59:15 PM »
Hi Andy, I appreciate your thoughts and although the Toyo looks nice, I think I`m happier with the Cowells. I recieved an email earlier and I think this info clinches it for me. I do hope my correspondent doesn`t mind me sharing it but i can`t imagine he would protest, besides the quote below remains anonymous:


I debating for a long time whether to go with the ME or the CW, and the decision ended up hinging on the use of standard watchmaker's collets.  However, as you mentioned, that doesn't make a huge difference, especially if working on clocks.  The 90ME should provide better torque at slow speeds, especially when using the backgear, and, of course, screw cutting ability would be a big plus.  John Wilding's book for his English Regulator clock was made with a 90ME and he points out those advantages and even says that the 90ME is more appropriate for the "clockmaker" than the 90CW (and pointing out the irony of it as well...)



Offline caskwith

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Re: Some help buying a new lathe please?
« Reply #28 on: November 16, 2012, 05:55:21 AM »

Offline andyf

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Re: Some help buying a new lathe please?
« Reply #29 on: November 16, 2012, 06:44:13 AM »
Caskwith, there's something about the advertiser's name and location that makes me wonder if that might be Chris raising money for his Cowells fund  :lol:

Andy
Sale, Cheshire
I've cut the end off it twice, but it's still too short

Offline raynerd

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Re: Some help buying a new lathe please?
« Reply #30 on: November 16, 2012, 02:05:24 PM »
lol  :wave:

Tis me.. don`t know why, but it seemed someone had a problem contacting me at my normal email if you look further down the homeworkshop page.

Offline caskwith

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Re: Some help buying a new lathe please?
« Reply #31 on: November 16, 2012, 04:26:58 PM »
Caskwith, there's something about the advertiser's name and location that makes me wonder if that might be Chris raising money for his Cowells fund  :lol:

Andy

Ha, well I do like to make a fool of myself at least once a day ;)

Offline NickG

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Re: Some help buying a new lathe please?
« Reply #32 on: November 16, 2012, 04:53:56 PM »
Chris, I did a similar thing with my ML7 and Sherline mill, and more recently I even am beginning to regret getting rid of the Centec 2A. Should have just kept them all - it could have done a job while the other mill was set up for something else but needs must!

I am considering buying another ML7 as there is an unwanted one in the family, I don't really need it now I have the harrison but it would make me feel better, like I hadn't naively sold the lathe my grandad gave me.

Nick
Location: County Durham (North East England)

Offline kayz1

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Re: Some help buying a new lathe please?
« Reply #33 on: November 18, 2012, 12:42:11 PM »
Craynerd, anyone else..i have found in my shed some bits i had from my old Dad some years ago, of interest maybe to one of you..
 90mm back plate with four slots..thread???? being new to all this i only have metric stuff but the thread appears tobe M14. I tested
with a bolt i have from an engine crank pulley M14 1.5 it goes in but is a tad loose...the 1.75 will not go through..any good to you?
  Lyn.

Offline raynerd

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Re: Some help buying a new lathe please?
« Reply #34 on: November 18, 2012, 03:17:20 PM »
 :ddb: pm sent

Offline kayz1

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Re: Some help buying a new lathe please?
« Reply #35 on: November 18, 2012, 04:22:25 PM »
New owner Chriss. 
 Lyn.

Offline NickG

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Re: Some help buying a new lathe please?
« Reply #36 on: November 27, 2012, 03:03:28 PM »
Hi Chris,

Did you find a new little lathe yet?

Since first seeing this post you have given me the bug too - I've been looking at Emco Unimat 3s & 4s - I understand the quality of the 3 was better than the later 4?

Also, then I came across the peatol again - I used to look at those many moons ago at the shows as they were relatively cheap. Then I realised you'd had one of these too!!! So which would you rate higher, peatol or Unimat 3? If push came to shove I could build a decent peatol for around £300 from new parts, however, might be able to save a bit as think I've got a motor and a few other ods and sods I could use.

I don't know why, I've not even been in the workshop for about a year but now I seem hooked on buying another lathe for some reason! I keep remembering my sherline mill, how good, easy and accurate it was for certain little jobs.

Nick
Location: County Durham (North East England)

Offline Fergus OMore

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Re: Some help buying a new lathe please?
« Reply #37 on: November 27, 2012, 03:36:37 PM »
I have a MJ-189 which is a Uni clone and apart from seeing that the wheels turned, I haven't touched it. Previous owner must hardly have used it- went into a home and his club put it up for sale for him.
It came with the three jaw, faceplate, some collets, drill chucks and rotating centre and the cost to him was over £400. I bought it for £250 and I got a timewaster as it proved. He took it home, wasted more time and I simply gave him his money back.
So it doesn't matter one way or the other but I'm certainly curious.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

One of my associates - a scrapman had a scrapper car but with an almost unobtainable windscreen. Guy came up at the price quoted over the phone- then started to haggle.
My associate took it out for him- with a  :hammer:

I'm sort of seeing his views very clearly now.

Regards

Norman

Offline raynerd

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Re: Some help buying a new lathe please?
« Reply #38 on: November 27, 2012, 05:56:59 PM »
The Unimat 3 I owned when I had literally no experience - I mean like zero knowledge so to comment on its capabilities would be wrong as I didn`t own it for long enough. However, I would say that they seem very expensive for what you get, accessories also seem expensive but I know a lot of clockmakers like the fact the milling head attachment can be used.

My first Peatol/Taig I really loved and only really sold because I was short on cash at the time. It was fully kitted out and even had the lead screw mod attachment! Parts were cheap, accessories were cheap and there is enough info on the net about them to pretty much do any conceivable modification! Value for money, I`d lump onto the Peatol out of the two for sure.

I`m sure everyone had opinions and I`m probably not the best one to ask!

To answer you original question, I`ve gone ahead and purchased the Cowells ME and I can certainly say without any degree of uncertainty that its quality, weight and feel is not even comparative to the peatol or unimat! However, in terms of value for money the peatol still wins as the cost of accessories is stupidly low. I still have quite a bit of spending to do to be kitted out with the necessary Cowells accessories and as Jo on here keeps mentioning to me, I guess there is little point devaluing the quality of the lathe with inferior none cowells accessories!


Let us know what you go with!
All the best
Chris
« Last Edit: November 27, 2012, 06:27:45 PM by raynerd »

Offline NickG

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Re: Some help buying a new lathe please?
« Reply #39 on: November 28, 2012, 02:58:59 AM »
Thanks Chris, I'm watching a couple of unimat a and peatols on eBay. The quality of the peatol looks better but to me looks a bit make shift. The unimat could be going for a good price with a lot of accessories and already has lead screw so the powered mod is easier. That said its about the results it gives at the end of the day that I'm interested in. The peatol also has a bit more capacity.

Know what you mean about the cowels, never tried one but they certainly look the part. Did you get it brand new or find a good 2nd had one?

I may have the chance of an ml7 that's in the family, I know completely different scale, is it really worth it when I already have the Harrison? The smaller lathes attract as you say for those tiny components and could even be a house lathe! An ml7 definitely couldn't!

Thanks again, much to ponder!
Location: County Durham (North East England)

Offline NickG

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Re: Some help buying a new lathe please?
« Reply #40 on: November 30, 2012, 03:27:49 PM »
I have bid on a couple of different unimat a now that were well kitted out but just missed out by the odd fiver! Prob a good thing. I keep coming back to peatols for the reasons you said now. Didn't realise you had another for sale, do you still have it? What's the condition like? See you can still get them new for about £200 with a chuck and tail stock. Thinking back I used to see them at the shows for peanuts but that was many moons ago.
Cheers
Nick
Location: County Durham (North East England)

Offline raynerd

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Re: Some help buying a new lathe please?
« Reply #41 on: November 30, 2012, 04:44:11 PM »
Nick
I sold it for £120 last week -soft jaws only and no motor so to be honest, needed money spending on it to bring it to a usable condition. It was for that reason I didn`t keep it myself.
Have you seen the current Cowells on ebay? - very similar to mine but with more accessories but then again price is higher than mine and still a few days left.
Chris

Offline NickG

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Re: Some help buying a new lathe please?
« Reply #42 on: December 01, 2012, 04:42:27 AM »
Ah right cheers, yeah saw that cowells but as you say it's 423 now bet it goes for over 600!
Location: County Durham (North East England)

Offline John Hill

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Re: Some help buying a new lathe please?
« Reply #43 on: December 01, 2012, 10:57:53 PM »
These fabulous little machines being discussed makes me feel depressed about the little Sherline with no extras, stuft tail stock and worn out 3 jaw chuck I just bought! :coffee:
From the den of The Artful Bodger

Offline andyf

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Re: Some help buying a new lathe please?
« Reply #44 on: December 02, 2012, 05:09:51 AM »
Reading this might make you feel a bit better about your Sherline, John.
http://www.cowells.com/pricelist.htm

Only £189 for a 2.5" 4-jaw. A bargain £390 for an "auto-traverse kit" or fine feed, which as far as I'm aware consists of a simple banjo, a gear to go on the spindle, another for the leadscrew, and two pairs of compound gears with studs.

Andy
Sale, Cheshire
I've cut the end off it twice, but it's still too short

Offline raynerd

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Re: Some help buying a new lathe please?
« Reply #45 on: December 02, 2012, 12:53:54 PM »
John, where did you get your Sherline?

Andy - they sure are expensive but to be fair the autotraverse kit is standard with the ME! Is yours the ME or CW?


Offline John Hill

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Re: Some help buying a new lathe please?
« Reply #46 on: December 02, 2012, 02:20:58 PM »
I found the Sherline on a NZ auction site,  I am actually quite pleased with it as it appears to be quite rare!

It is one of the original Australian made Sherlines with brass bed and cross slide etc  (it also has a rather gutless blue sewing machine motor) but what really seems to set it apart is the model name which is shown on the plate as
"Sherline 3 1/2" precision lathe",  I have not found reference anywhere to one with this model name, all model names I have found are numeric. 


Name plate by aardvark_akubra, on Flickr


IMGP1090 by aardvark_akubra, on Flickr


IMGP1089 by aardvark_akubra, on Flickr

I have since added  "laypulley"** to reduce the spindle speed and up the torque a bit.

** :coffee:   
From the den of The Artful Bodger

Offline andyf

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Re: Some help buying a new lathe please?
« Reply #47 on: December 02, 2012, 03:20:16 PM »
John, looking at the maker's plate, your Sherline has got 1/2" shorter with age (like me)  :) .

Chris, I think the CW horologist's version wasn't introduced until after Cowells took the lathe over after Brian Perris's death. Mine is the Perris SL90; the first 90MEs were almost identical, though I think Cowells changed to an M14x1.5 spindle nose straight away. Mine is 1/2"x20 UNF.

Pics of mine are at http://andysmachines.weebly.com/perris-baby-lathe.html, with an update on making a disengageable half nut to replace the solid one (without drilling any new holes in the cross slide) here http://andysmachines.weebly.com/a-half-nut-for-the-perris.html

I think you have joined the Yahoo Cowells Group; the instructions for putting the kit-form Perris together, and the 1970's Cowells catalogue in its Files section both came with my lathe.

Does yours have the fragile split headstock bearings with only one bolt to tighten them up, or were Cowells using their improved headstock by the time yours was produced. My headstock took a bit of repairing when it broke (more accurately: when I broke it  :bang: ).

Andy
Sale, Cheshire
I've cut the end off it twice, but it's still too short

Offline John Hill

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Re: Some help buying a new lathe please?
« Reply #48 on: December 02, 2012, 04:19:35 PM »
What in 1/2"?  .......................musta been wishful thinking on my part! :doh:
From the den of The Artful Bodger

Offline andyf

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Re: Some help buying a new lathe please?
« Reply #49 on: December 02, 2012, 04:50:52 PM »
Size doesn't matter - at least, that's what I tell 'em, John

It looks a cracking little machine, with its rather unusual brass bed and cross slide. I wonder where it was made. According to lathes.co.uk, they were Australian-made aluminium-bed Clisbys from 1970 until 1972, when they became American-made Sherlines. Maybe Mr Sher set up "Ronald Sher Pty Ltd Australia" as a distributorship in Australia to exploit the reputation of the Clisby in that country.  Or maybe Sher manufactured in Oz for a while.

Andy
Sale, Cheshire
I've cut the end off it twice, but it's still too short