Some help buying a new lathe please?

[John Hill]

I think Mr Sher was a Skippy who manufactured for Mr Clisby.  The tools were shown at trade shows including in the US where the present company saw them and bought the rights to manufacture and obviously the name too.

The story is here http://www.sherline.com/sherhist.htm

But there is no mention of the 3" Precision Lathe  model and this one does not have a 'high torque' motor, although it is an Australian made motor which tends to argue against this little motor having been fitted by a NZ owner after the 'high torque' motor died, the motor is blue like the lathe which is another point against it having been a replacement.

I wish the lathe had a serial number as I suspect this one would be very low!

[andyf]

Thanks for the link, John. I hadn't realised Mr Sher was an Aussie.

The third photo down of the "Original Model 1000" shows what looks to be a brass bed, saddle and cross slide like yours. Maybe you should send your photo to Tony at lathes.co.uk, whose description implies that the whole thing was aluminium. As you say, yours was probably a very early Ron Sher product; the Clisby was 2.5" swing, according to Tony, and the Sherline 3.5", with the label on yours indicating a half-way stage.

Andy

[raynerd]

Andy, mine is an early 300's number stamped on the bed and so has the single lock down screws for the headstock. One thing I am unsure of, is how hard to tighten them! I had forgot yours was a Perrin's and looks very similar to mine!



I must admit, I thought the bed was casted with the Cowells logo and not a sticker! Even the early looking ME`s shown on lathe.co.uk seem to have the cast COWELLS print. I`m wondering if mine is a copy 









Just need to get my Rawyler setup and I`m all good on the "mini" house cupboard machining setup!





Set of W20 collets and arbors.


------
John, thanks for posting pics of your lathe, it looks super! I know you mentioned about wear, but seriously how does a lathe bed stand the test of time in brass - I could imagine it would be quite likely to wear quicker than a steel bed?
Chris

[andyf]

Hi Chris,

Judging by the name cast into it, the tailstock is original, at least 

It looks a tidy little machine; great for dealing with tiddly parts.

Have you seen Jere Mihalov's website? He's a great fan of the CW version, which he had shipped over to the US
http://watchmaking.weebly.com/cowells-90cw.html

I see he has a copy of my Perris manual on there. Hardly surprising, as he kindly converted my scans into the PDF for the Cowells group.

Andy

Andy

[John Hill]

Thanks for the link, John. I hadn't realised Mr Sher was an Aussie.

The third photo down of the "Original Model 1000" shows what looks to be a brass bed, saddle and cross slide like yours. Maybe you should send your photo to Tony at lathes.co.uk, whose description implies that the whole thing was aluminium. As you say, yours was probably a very early Ron Sher product; the Clisby was 2.5" swing, according to Tony, and the Sherline 3.5", with the label on yours indicating a half-way stage.

Andy

The same page shows a drawing (which will not expand for me.) titled "Plans for Original Sherline 3.5" Model 1000 lathe from Australia, 1972".

I must go out to the 'shop and measure the swing!

[later] Height of the centre above the bed is 1.75"

[NickG]

You guys nearly gave me the bug - I nearly won the one that was on ebay, only the bidding increasing by £75 in the last 10 seconds of the auction saved me! It went for £525 which I guess wasn't bad considering the stuff that came with it.

They look like a nice piece of kit.

John, as I've said many times, I loved my little sherline mill - annoying thinking back why did I sell it, £270 must have been a lot of money in 1998 that's all I can think!

Nick

[andyf]

My Perris was £25 secondhand, Nick, with a 4-jaw, a collet chuck with a single 1/4" collet plus an unbored blank, faceplate, vertical slide and fine feed gears, but no screwcutting gears. But these days, £525 ain't bad for a real Cowells as opposed to its predecessor.

Andy

[NickG]

Sorry to hijak this thread a bit now but it's done the job for Chris!

Thought it might be a decent deal that cowells! I was thinking, I could prob get an ML7 for similar money but can't put that on some wood and plonk it on kitchen table. It is more than I really want to pay though considering I've still got the harrison sat in the garage!

These are probably going to be shot down in flames - just come across this, it looks like a drill onits side, will it be any good?! Seems to have quite a few limitations but can be 'converted' into a mill / drill - by putting it upright by the looks of it!!

http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0052ETK4Q/?tag=hydra0b-21&hvadid=9550933509&ref=asc_df_B0052ETK4Q

or

http://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/Catalogue/Machines-Accessories/Lathes/C0-Baby-Lathe/C0-Baby-Lathe

http://www.axminster.co.uk/axminster-sieg-c0-metal-turning-lathe-prod559017/

These are the same and essentially Unimat 4 clones I think on a little base? Correct me if I'm wrong.
Will the axminster one be worth £50 more than the arc? Will an actual unimat 4 be worth another £70 on top of the axminster?!

Or could get a 2nd hand unimat 3 which are supposed to be much better for around £200.

Then there's the Peatol - I bid on one yesterday, thought I had it but in the last 3 seconds snipers increased the max bid by £100! to £330 or something, I can build a new one for about that. The quality of the peatol looks better than the little chinese things doesn't it?

Cheers,

Nick

[andyf]

Those Sieg COs had the reputation of not being for the faint-hearted (camel-back beds etc) when they first came out, Nick, though they may have improved by now. It might be an idea to join "their" Yahoo group to see what current owners think of them.

The Draper offering looks a bit like a watchmaker's lathe. I wonder how rigid it is, given that it seems to have some sort of adjustable prop under the tailstock.

If you want a portable machine, the (expensive) ideal would be a Cowells, but a Peatol/Taig, a Sherline or even a decent Unimat would probably be a better bet than the Draper, and perhaps better than the C0.

Andy

[raynerd]

I`d go for a Peatol Nick - like I said in an earlier post, bang for buck they are fantastic. If you had £350, you could get a second hand one off ebay and then with the change (which would be a considerable amount), you could pretty much purchase every assessory you would need! Saying that, one sold about 3 weeks ago on ebay, £180 full working order machine and absolutely loads of accessories with it. For that sort of price, I wouldn`t even touch the draper considering what is about for similar and less money! As an aside, year ago when I was looking for a small machine before the peatol, I read some bad reviews of the Unimat 4.
I got my Cowells for just under £350 in the end, granted, not many accessories but I`m saving for those after Christmas. I`ve got what I need for now and I seriously wouldn`t be without the machine. You could say, save the extra £200 and look for something like the one that just sold on ebay but I just can`t afford that sort in one lump so I`m happy with what I`ve got and adding to it.
A chap was selling a Peatol on homeworkshop not so long ago, £200 brand spanking new with motor. The money left would certainly get near to what you need.

Just my humble opinion...

Chris

[philf]

Those Sieg COs had the reputation of not being for the faint-hearted (camel-back beds etc) when they first came out, Nick, though they may have improved by now. It might be an idea to join "their" Yahoo group to see what current owners think of them.
Andy

I think that the ArcEuro site gives a good indication of the shortcomings of the Sieg C0 lathe when they have to sell a tailstock adaptor to adjust the tailstock centre to line up with the spindle!

Phil.

[NickG]

Thanks for the advice chaps.

Fergus, where did you advertise the MJ-189? I think that is effectively the same as the sieg c0 or axminster - a unimat clone?

Thanks Andy, I agree with you and Chris. That draper is also made by sieg, i first saw it on their website, the draper version looks nice in the pics but as you say I'd question it's rigidity and it probably doesn't look great when you get up to it!

I nearly got the peatol, I think it went for 185 and my max bid was 180 so I wasn't far off getting that. The one that finished last night had the top slide and vertical slide but only a 4 jaw + lots of other general bits and bobs.

Genuine unimat 3's and 4's seem to be going for around the £220 mark with the basics which I'm thinking isn't too bad, but because I've got my own motor & could make my own mounting board etc, I could do a brand new peatol for similar money and build on the accessories gradually.

Phil, I'm not sure why they are supplying that adaptor now since the tailstock is adjustable now!

Nick

[philf]

Phil, I'm not sure why they are supplying that adaptor now since the tailstock is adjustable now!

Nick

Nick,

I hadn't spotted that they now make the tailstock adjustable. They seem to make a big deal of the adjustable tailstock being exclusive to them. The fact that they also supply the adaptor must mean that it can be misaligned vertically as well as horizontally or the adaptor wouldn't be necessary. I may be a bit pessimistic but if the tailstock could be out horizontally and vertically could it also be not parallel to the spindle? If so, no amount of horizontal and vertical adjustment would cure the problem.

Phil.

[NickG]

Must admit I did wonder the same, whether it was misaligned vertically too!!!

You make a good point there, peoples experiences of these chinese machines, including my own should be enough to put me off really but the price difference is forcing me to consider. With the larger lathe it was an easy choice in the end, I could get a fantastic 2nd had machine for the same price or less than a much smaller, less well equiped chinese machine. But in this instance, the chinese counter part is a couple of hundred quid cheaper in general. I have a feeling i'd live to regret it so maybe the 2nd hand Unimat 3 or peatol is going tobe the happy medium I'm looking for. The peatol is favourable, as I said, I already have the motor etc so that would leave me some money to spend on accessories.

This has got me thinking - a couple of years back I donated a lathe of unknown origin to our club - it seemed a compact but fairly solid thing, even had a back gear! It had a makeshift carriage though and the cross slide was from an old shaper. I could make a better carriage and use a cross slide from something like a peatol. Might have another look at the thing, am sure it's still there, I could take it back!

[raynerd]

Nick, did you get fixed up with a lathe or still thinking?

[raynerd]

Nice buy whoever picked this up imo.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/cowells-lathe-/200865626597?pt=UK_Home_Garden_PowerTools_SM&hash=item2ec48639e5

Chris

[NickG]

Had I waited I could probably have had that one!