A little light light....

[Divided he ad]

Well it was harder to title it than make it.... But this was a first for me so I'm posting it 


Anyone ever made anything from magnesium?

I got given a bar of it by a friend so I decided for Xmas I'd make him a torch with a bit of it.... The rest is all pictures. Same as my brass torches so nothing descriptive cause I've already done that.








5.58grams!!










And the fun bit.... A bit of interesting swarf 





A little video....








Ralph.

[Deko]

Another bright spot in your machining endeavours there Ralph but i do'nt see any clicky switch, did you hide it inside?   You are right about the air gun, had one myself when i were lad.  PLEASE be very carefull with that magnesieum, it can be real nasty stuff if it catches fire when you do'nt want it to.

Cheers Dek.

P.S. I found my big boxes of lenses and prisims today so something else for you to play with next time you call round.

[Stilldrillin]

Nicely done Ralph! 

Not come across that material, since the chemistry master burned some in oxygen. Over 55 years ago....... 

What does it machine like? It looks similar to aluminium alloy.

David D

[Divided he ad]

Thanks gents,


Dek, No worries. I've done lots of stupid in my life but I always tried to avoid smoke of any description  Specially white stuff that is toxic!! 

Big box of lenses and prisms.....Sounds very intriguing 

Clicky switches are soon to be incorporated in some test builds.... House comes first though!

I'll be over soon ish... Was meant to be on Monday... Just with a 1/2" of snow my cars butt won't stop wigglin!!

Might get over there.... Will let you know if I am 



David, machines like butter (with an ultra sharp tool) much lighter than aluminium ~1/3rd.

It was fun making all those swarf swirls.... But that was partly due to the fact I knew I was gonna light some of 'em after 

(first time I've had the fun of lighting it since school too... Although that was a mere 24ish years ago )





Ralph.

[Deko]

Ralph, We should all be allowed at least one major mistake especialy one very adictive one started at the age of 14 when we do'nt know any better. I realy do'nt want to give up now at the age of 72 because i realy do ENJOY it. Hope to see you soon.

Cheers Dek.

[Divided he ad]

Dek, Wasn't having a go.

Just a statement about me avoiding the nasties! My personal choice. I have many friends who fell into the "trap"

We've discussed this a little.... Each to there own. As long as they don't try to force it on me I rarely worry bout it.



 



Ralph.

[Deko]

No problem there Ralph, i could not afford to hand em round these days anyway.

Cheers Dek.

[millwright]

Wondered which pic would have some flames on Ralph     pleased it wasnt when you were turning it. lovely looking torch as they always are.
John

[raynerd]

When the battery goes, they should double up as a nice emergency flare!

Where did you get that Ralph? We have it at work but only in small strips and certainly not as a bar.

I`m no net nannyas we are all responsible for our own actions but just wanted to ask/point out - is there any chance of anything sparking or even the Mg getting hot enough when turning to ignite? 

Yet again, you have amazed me.

[Divided he ad]

No worries Dek 


John, Glad you like it    And as for the burning.  Chris, this is for you too...

Found on the "magnesium.com" forum... from an Ilya Ostrovsky.... in reply to a question about laptop cases being dangerous!!

"
Your "someone" has completely wrong opinion about flammability of magnesium.
Magnesium is safe not only in laptops, but also in an aircraft. The flammability of magnesium was studied and tested in FP6 AEROMAG. This information is available for public and was presented on several conferences, as well as on recent FAA meeting.
Furthermore, flammability resistance of magnesium can be improved by application of special alloys and/or special protective coatings.

!In case of laptop, where simple AZ91 without special coating is used, the ignition may happen at temperature about 550-560C.
I have a lot of doubts that somebody works with laptop in so high temperature.

Regarding battleship, it is probably a kind of science fiction. Magnesium was used during WWII in military aircrafts as well as later in military aviation.
I do not have any information about magnesium battleships. Even today, magnesium is not used in battleships hull. The main reason is corrosion.
Any way, every battleship or military aircraft has enough dangerous explosives. Magnesium really is not issue in this case.!  "

 
This is not obviously irrefutable but it does reference other materials which you can view. (I choose not too TBH)



I also was working in a workshop at 3 deg C!!   

It didn't get hot at all really, I was clearly mindful of the material as I did know of it's volatile nature, kept an eye on the temperature at regular intervals 


The bar Chris.... Erm, fell off the back of a plane!?!





Ralph. 

[raynerd]

Ralph
I'm not really sure what the quote is saying? It seems to be trying to give the impression that it is safe but I use it a couple of times a year to show either it's lovely white light when burning or to be used as a burning fuse in the thermite reaction... ! I also drop some in acid to show hydrogen being evolved...so keep it away from your can of coke or you might end up with no torch left! Maybe it is much safer and less flammable as solid block rather than in thin strips.

Enjoy... And regardless of its properties, it looks brill. I must admit, having only ever handled small strips of it, I never appreciated that it was so light weight!!!

Chris

[raynerd]

From good old wiki...

Magnesium is a highly flammable metal, but while it is easy to ignite when powdered or shaved into thin strips, it is difficult to ignite in mass or bulk

..so there you go!

[andyf]

Not that it helps the discussion much, but I believe that the superstructure of HMS Sheffield was a aluminium-magnesium alloy, which may have contributed to her swift destruction in the Falklands conflict following an Exocet strike.

Chris, do they still demonstrate the thermite reaction in schools? It made a lasting impression on me 50 years ago - the usual spectacular flame from the magnesium fuse, and then great balls of fire - well, molten iron - rolling across the protective metal sheet on the teachers bench.

Andy

[John Stevenson]

We used to make parts out of 2 1/2" diameter bar, still got some bars left, probably about 5 or 6 metres.
Problem with magnesium is that although it turns nice and you get a shiny finish it starts to oxidise and get a white flaky appearance very quickly unless anodised.

Best use for the turning is to rub them between your hands with a pair of rigger gloves on to turn it into small chipping, perfectly safe doing this.
Then throw the chippings over someone's shoulder whose welding.

Awesome, definitely a brown underpants day 

[Deko]

You're bl**dy cruel you are John  It's no wonder it's tropical in your workshop. 

Cheers Dek.

[Divided he ad]

Good bit of info there John 


You rarely fail to make me chuckle with your posts 



Back to the more serious stuff....

Anodising, same as aluminium? Are there some special tricks you might recall?

Just wondering for future ref' I may have to make a mock up of the torch body and then take Lyn (Kayz1) up on his visit offer and maybe test his anodising set up   




Ralph.

[John Stevenson]

Presumably the same setup, don't really know as we used to send it out and just tell them it was magnesium.

[raynerd]

Andy, we do indeed still demo Thermite and it is by far the most exciting experiment! That said, I`ve been doing it for 6 years now and each year I check the list to check it hasn`t been "banned" - no doubt in the near future it will be!

Ralph - regarding the anodizing. I`ve googled it and no doubt it can be done but I don`t see how. It surely can`t be as straight forward as aluminium which I have managed to do and posted my results on here. Aluminium oxide readily sticks to the surface of aluminium but magnesium oxide is more like a powder that can be wiped off! Just from observing the two, I`m sure they must do something extra to give it a higher affinity to the surface. Interested to learn more and I`m also with John that if you don`t do something to it, your nice finish will very soon dull!

Chris

[Divided he ad]

John, Thanks for the reply.... It will take a little research!


Chris, I'll look into it someday... If I find out anything I'll post it.

One good thing about these torches is that they are always in and out of pockets.... Tends to keep them a little polished.... and a little scuffed




Ralph.

[andyf]

This might work: http://www.ehow.com/how_7395352_anodize-magnesium.html

Doesn't tell you what the cathode should be, but I'd guess lead should be OK.

I don't understand why it goes darker the longer you do it. As Chris says, the oxide is white, and I think the hydroxide is, too - isn't that the main constituent of the milk of magnesia that was poured down the younger me if I ever complained of stomach-ache?

Andy

[AdeV]

Sodium in water was another good reaction to see, especially if a decent sized piece of sodium is used.

Thermite, by the time I was at secondary school (early 1980s), they showed us the reaction but out-doors & we had to be several dozen feet away, which I think reduced its impact somewhat.

[John Stevenson]

Sodium in water was another good reaction to see, especially if a decent sized piece of sodium is used.

Yer sodium another good one.
The exhaust valves on the Rolls Royce merlin engine were sodium filled to help dissipate the heat. We used to crop the heads off and poke the sodium out until you had a matchbox full.

At knock off time the guys would go into the washroom to get cleaned up for going home.
In the middle was a big stainless steel tray that served as a sink, 3 foot wide and probably 10 foot long that you could stand round on all 4 side full of warm water.

Trick was to get in early, wash up and as you were leaving throw the matchbox full of sodium into the sink and watch it wizz round like a demented thing setting fire to all the hairs on the blokes arms.

Oh happy days................

[raynerd]

Without a word of a lie, I showed group 1 with metal today! Potassium is a better show than sodium.
The advice on thermite has changed now. They did use to do it outside but since I've been teaching the advice is to do it indoors again. Quite a few teachers were hurt I believe with the mixture blowing up in their face in the wind during lighting! Or so I'm told.

John...a match box full!!! Advice to demo now is a "rice grain" size piece. :-(

[raynerd]

Just a note to say it is really interesting hearing what experiments did stick in people's minds.
I always enjoyed cracking paraffin oil at school and still do today. Distillation was a good one, made better by the fact that our teacher hasn't fit the condenser properly and the alcohol spilt out and the whole setup turned into a wall of flames!
Other nice one with a Bunsen coming to the end of its life is to add the oxygen cylinder into the air hole and watch the top of the Bunsen melt away. They really look to be steel but I wouldn't have thought that could melt them...but it does!
   Off topic - sorry.

[John Stevenson]

Talking of experiments at school, the bike sheds featured a lot in mine 

[Divided he ad]

Think we're a little too far  now John !!?     


IIRC it was potassium that blew up the big cylindrical glass bowl that held the water....

Science teachers in my school tended to ignore the instructions  (make themselves cool? )  "size of a grain of rice"  chemistry teacher chopped off a corner ~10mm pyramid kind of shape. Dropped it in and there was a bit of a whizz and a boom.   
Quite exhilarating! 



Just what I recall.... think it was potassium. Could have been sodium... Was a while ago!






Ralph.

[AdeV]

Just what I recall.... think it was potassium. Could have been sodium... Was a while ago!

I find it hard to believe that you can't remember the name of the metal - I mean, come on, it exploded! Surely that should have seared it into your memory forever? Or weren't you into big bangs then? 

[bhowden]

As a teenager I spent far too much time studying chemistry with special emphais on very exothermic reactions.  Early VW transaxle cases were pretty close to straight magnesium.  We would use a wood rasp to grind up a tobacco tin worth at a time.  You used to be able to buy Sodium Chlorate as a weedkiller for about $15 for 75 pounds.  Mix it with the shaved magnesium and you got a very saleable product.  Even mixing NaClO3 with sugar and I could sell it for a dollar for a 4oz bottle.  I always wondered why kids would sell drugs when the markup was so low.  We once tried to light a big chunk of magnesium.  It would sort of burn but not very spectacularly.  Mostly looked like a glowing puddle of liquid metal with little hot spots breaking out every now and then.  It got much more spectacular when we turned the hose on it to end the fun.  Needless to say the fun just started at that point.  Finally ended up burying it in sand to get it out.  I mixed up some thermite in a crucible in the fume hood of the grade nine science lab.  The crucible shattered and sprayed the mixture all over.  Fortunately it went out leaving us dissapointed.   One of my favorite tricks in science class was to fill the sinks with propane.  As long as it was fairly still it would stay there for quite a while until somebody would accidently light it.

Brian

[andyf]

Our school chemistry benches had gas taps, for Bunsens.  If the class all (except the goody-goodies) blew air back down the taps, an gratifying whump! would emanate from the pipework when a Bunsen was finally persuaded to ignite (sometimes by an unwitting teacher), and the flame flashed back and set off the gas/air mix below.

Chris, you're safe from this trick. It was back in the days of low pressure town gas. I think natural gas is at too high a pressure and would tend to inflate your pupils (or students, if that's what they are called nowadays).

Andy

[Divided he ad]

 

This thread has become quite good fun!

Ade, as said... Sure it was potassium but we were "playing" with various metals in the same day. And the old grey matter ain't what it used to be! 


Brian, Very ingenious and entrepreneurial    Stunning what some of us have gotten away with.... Various explosions and the likes over the years!  Propane sink!!! 


Andy, Blowing down gas taps!!!   Not something most of us would have thought of I'm sure!





Ralph.
   

[bhowden]

This thread, now thoroughly off topic, has given me an interesting idea.  I wonder if the home foundry type could use thermite to cast iron.  Make up the normal green sand flask but instead of a furnace and crucible, scoop out a funnel in the sand and fill it with a mixture of thermite and cast iron bits.  In theory you could work out how much extra cast iron it would take to absorb the surplus heat released by the thermite and make the process much more efficient and regulate the temperature of the pour.  Not sure how well it would mix but, in theory you could add other elements to make all sorts of alloys.  Add high carbon steel and get a low carbon steel mix.  The major snag I can see is what happens to the aluminum oxide released by the thermite.  Anybody know if it stays in the melted iron released or if it boils or floats off?  There must be something in all the smoke!

Brian

[raynerd]

Andy, I expect I am safe from that trick. It comes out with such a force that there is a good 2" gap if you ""accidentally"" light the tap directly. Still clever little trick!

[krv3000]

well dun

[Divided he ad]

well dun

    Are we finally back on topic? 


Thanks  Bob 




Here we go  again....       Thermite casting!!!   This I've got to see!!   

 (brave man who tries this one.... Possibly a little nuts too   )





Ralph.

[bhowden]

>>>a brave man that tries this

In the interest of staying on topic and broadening the audience I will repost my original off topic reply as a new posting over in a more appropriate topic.

Brian

[Divided he ad]

Brian,

I'm going in search of that thread now 




Ralph.