Author Topic: Which model train  (Read 8074 times)

Offline raynerd

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Which model train
« on: April 26, 2013, 04:04:57 PM »
My little boy is tiny, only a baby but I want to make a start (if not for myself!!) in building a small electric train track. I'm sure my daughter will enjoy it as well.

Although I've made a few engines and in to engineering, I've never pretended to know anything about model trains!! In terms off considering collectibility, cost and fun...what guage should I be looking at buying? One day I'd love to have a full track running around his room but I'm not sure what I should be buying! 

Any thoughts or info please? I'd appreciate it,

Chris

Online John Rudd

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Re: Which model train
« Reply #1 on: April 26, 2013, 04:22:20 PM »

I've never pretended to know anything about model trains!! In terms off considering collectibility, cost and fun...what guage should I be looking at buying? One day I'd love to have a full track running around his roomChris

Well theres HO/OO gauge and there's N gauge...HO/OO is around 25mm track width, N gauge is around 10-12mm...( Google gauges )

I have a HO/OO gauge Triang-Hornby layout in my loft....(When I can be bothered with it...)

Smaller costs more..
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Offline mklotz

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Re: Which model train
« Reply #2 on: April 26, 2013, 05:12:11 PM »
Check on the availability of accessories before you decide on a scale.

Here in the USA, the most available accessories are all HO scale.  When I lived in Germany I could get N-gage accessories but they're not nearly so available in the states.  Z-gage accessories are nearly non-existent.

The larger gages may be more appropriate for small childrens' clumsiness but they take up enormous amounts of space.  As a compromise between layout size/complexity and availability/cost I think HO is the way to go.

Here's a table I have of the various gages.  Of course, it's American because I am.  Check for a European equivalent. 

Code: [Select]
SUMMARY OF SCALES

 NAME    SCALE                          COUPLER
  of       to                        CENTER ABOVE  TRACK
 SCALE   FOOT           PROPORTION     RAlLHEAD    GAGE           REMARKS

 1"       1.000"(25.4mm)   1:12      2 7/8"(73mm)   4.750"(121 mm)

 3/4"      .750(1 9.Omm)   1:16      2 1/4"(57mm)   3.500"(88.9mm)

 17/32"    .531"(13.5mm)   1:22.6    l 7/16"(37mm)  2.500"(63.5mm)
 1/2"      .500"(12.7mm)   1:24      1 7/16"(37mm)  2.500"(63.5mm)

 3/8       .375"(9.52mm)   1:32      1 1/16"(27mm)  1.766"(44.9mm)

 O(17)     .266"(6.75mm)   1:45.2     11/16"(17mm)  1.250"(31.8mm) ++
 O         .250"(6.35mm)   1:48       11/16"(17mm)  1.250"(31.8mm) ++

 On3       .250"(6.35mm)   1:48        9/16"(14mm)   .750"(19.0mm)

 On2       .250"(6.35mm)   1:48       11/32"(8.7mm)  .500"(12.7mm)

 S         .188"(4.76mm)   1:64       17/32"(13mm)   .875"(22.2mm)

 Sn3       .188"(4.76mm)   1:64       17/32"(10mm)   .563"(14.3mm)

 OO        4.0mm(.1575")   1:76.2     29/64"(12mm)   .750"(19.0mm)

 HO        3.5mm(.1378")   1:87.1     25/64"(9.9mm)  .649"(16.5mm)

 HOn3      3.5mm(.1378")   1:87.1     9/32"(7.1mm)   .413"(10.5mm)

 HOn2      3.5mm(.1378")   1:87.1                    .276"(7.01mm)

 TT        .100"(2.54mm)   1:120      9/32"(7.1mm)   .471"(12.0mm)
 TTn3      .100"(2.54mm)   1:120      7/32"(5.54mm)  .300"(7.62mm)

 N         .075"(1.90mm)   1:160     .216"(5.5mm)    .353"(8.97mm)

 Nn3(40")  .075"(1.90mm)   1:160                     .250"(6.35mm)

 Z         .055"(1.39mm)   1:220                     .257"(6.52mm)

++ Except for track gage and associated dimensions, STANDARDS for these scales
are generally the same and are referred to simply as "O" STANDARDS.
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Offline andyf

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Re: Which model train
« Reply #3 on: April 26, 2013, 07:34:34 PM »
Despite what you table shows, Marv, I believe the track gauge for 00 is the same as H0 at 16.5mm. As 00 models are at a scale of about 1:76, and H0 ones are about 1:87, the track is the the right scale for H0, but unrealistically narrow in 00. The anomaly arose because many full-size UK engines are smaller than their European and US counterparts, so using 4mm:1ft made it easier to fit the clockwork mechanisms of yesteryear inside the loco bodies. Also, having the wheels closer together left a bit more room to model the valve gear. But both H0 and 00 will run on the same track.

Chris, as most UK-made models of UK engines and rolling stock are 00, I'd go for 00 if you want to model a UK railway. If you want to model a railway from elsewhere in the world, and hence buy imported models, you will probably find that they are HO. But they will both run on the same track, so you can mix scales if you want to include Eurostar trains.

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Offline Pete49

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Re: Which model train
« Reply #4 on: April 27, 2013, 01:33:23 AM »
I have a HO/OO Triang /mixed makes since I was a child and enjoy it every so often. They are a good size as said for clumsy children and also fumble fingered older type persons :). Keep in mind the layout size as well. I have been thinking of N gauge lately but only because of available room. You can fit nearly 4 times the layout on an 8'x4' base compared to HO/OO but the cost is roughly that as well
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Offline raynerd

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Re: Which model train
« Reply #5 on: May 05, 2013, 05:56:55 PM »
A very delayed thank you and reply to this. As usual, I appreciate everyone's opinion and advice.

I've been talking to my wife and have to admit that with Jack having the smaller room I'd probably get a better layout in there with n guage but it seems small for small fingers!! . That said, my daughter is only young and also wanting to get involved.

Just throwing something else in the mix. Have any of you seen these ceiling layouts? It is a lovely opportunity for a train he can control without knocking or smashing anything up while he is young. I could even run it between their rooms! I'm considering running a train around his ceiling and due to the track price, OO  is my preference. When I look on youtube, most of the ceiling tracks are O guage. Is this because it is just a common guage in the US or does a larger scale offer somethng I'm missing with a ceiling layout. I mean appreciate if it is higher it'll be harder to see but it is still a small room with relatively low ceiling.
I appreciate this may not be to everyone's taste but opinions on the logistics of this type of layout with OO would be welcomed.

Chris

Offline dsquire

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Re: Which model train
« Reply #6 on: May 05, 2013, 06:25:55 PM »
Chris

We have all been there, done that. The kids would probably be happy to play with the box the train came in. Be honest Chris, what kind of train do you want? We know that SWMBO won't let you buy a train for yourself but if it's for the kids it is a different story. Good luck  :D :D


Cheers  :beer:

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Offline garym

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Re: Which model train
« Reply #7 on: May 05, 2013, 06:31:05 PM »
Hi Chris,

When I was a teenager I had an 8' x 4' OO gauge layout in my bedroom with my bed mostly underneath the layout. Helps to use the space efficiently. IMHO trains for children should be at a level where they can interact with them, although your son might be a bit too young to do this in a constructive way.  :D

Gary
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Offline Pete.

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Re: Which model train
« Reply #8 on: May 05, 2013, 07:16:57 PM »
Young kids and ceiling trains are a poor mix. Aside from the risk of a heavy train clumping someone on the head when a petulant child slams a door, there's the temptation to turn into Chris Bonnington when one of them 'doesn't move'.

Offline AdeV

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Re: Which model train
« Reply #9 on: May 05, 2013, 07:53:09 PM »
I had an 6x5 (roughly) layout when I was a kid. Dad made a rather clever fold-up table, so when not in use, the set was folded up against the wall (allowing floor space); when in use, the main bit folded down, a bridge was inserted and the "marshalling yard" aka train storage area was then connected to the main layout. It worked very well indeed, the bridge was plugged in rather than rely on electrical contact with the tracks.

Mine was an HO/OO (whichever was common in the UK) set, which was OK, but running more than 4 carriages on a train was basically impossible due to the size of the track. N-gauge would allow more realistic train lengths, but as others have said, cost is about the same as HO/OO.
Cheers!
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Offline raynerd

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Re: Which model train
« Reply #10 on: May 06, 2013, 03:36:37 AM »
Chris

We have all been there, done that. The kids would probably be happy to play with the box the train came in. Be honest Chris, what kind of train do you want? We know that SWMBO won't let you buy a train for yourself but if it's for the kids it is a different story. Good luck  :D :D


Cheers  :beer:

Don

Haha...ok I'll cut the c**p. I want a train, my wife will only let me have one "for the kids" and the only place one will fit is ceiling mounted!!

Pete. Very much appreciate your concern about them climbing Rambo style to sort out a stuck loco.

Adev, yes my uncle had a similar fold away layout. I don't think there is any room to even put something that folds away. Being the second born, he has the box room !


Ok..  sorry for wasting your time.

 My name is Craynerd, and I want a train for myself. There I've said it. If I put one up, it'll keep me entertained and give him something to watch before he wants one at a level he can play with.



Offline jiihoo

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Re: Which model train
« Reply #11 on: May 06, 2013, 05:02:16 AM »
Hi Chris,

I'll join all the others who have recommended H0/00. We just had the yearly model expo here and I was again looking at all the trains there (amongst other things) with my older boy. Plenty of nice layouts in all scales.

If you look at the way the owners operate their railways in a show, you will spot one difference between the N and H0/00 crowd. The N-people mostly use tweezers to connect and disconnect carriages whilst the H0/00 people do not. It is also a lot more fiddly to put N-scale trains on the tracks compared to H0/00 and it is also more difficult to build N-scale layouts so that the trains stay on the tracks (if you build modules then the transition from one module to the next is harder to get right on N due to the smaller size). Thus for kids I'd definitely say go for H0/00 and not N.

However, I've seen some very nice N-scale layouts and N-scale goes very well with permanent and semi-permanent layouts at home. It does take less space and you can build the layout on a piece of plywood and store it upright or even hang it 5 cm from the ceiling when not using it.

H0/00 takes more space for a semi-permanent installation but then again it is more suitable for a "build it and then disassemble it next week" type installation. For H0 (I don't know if this holds for 00 in England too) you will also have to decide between the 2-rail and 3-rail tracks. 3-rail is Märklin, 2-rail is more or less everyone else. 3-rail (meaning you have the small studs at the center between the rails) is very easy for "build and disassemble" as you don't have to worry about loops and change of direction. On the 3-rail the center is "+" and the two rails both are "-". On the 2-rail one rail is + and the other rail is -. If you have a loop where the train changes direction and comes back to the same track, then you have a problem (draw this on a piece of scrap paper and you will understand what I mean). So with 2-rail either avoid loops or ask the other 2-rail people what the solution is (there is a solution but I am not familiar with the details...) This is also the reason why you cannot put Märklin carriages on the 2-rail system but you can do it the other way around (On Märklin carriages the wheels are NOT insulated, on the other system they MUST be.) (Note: I took some liberties with the "+" and "-" above to simplify the explanation; actually I think Märklin is AC but anyway the above is good enough to understand the difference between 2-rail and 3-rail operation).

Anyway due to the age of your kids the correct choice is none of the above (sorry to disappoint you). I wouldn't let kids younger than 7-10 play unsupervised with the "real" train sets in any scale as they are not robust enough... The correct one for younger kids is BRIO (http://www.brio.net/en/ToPlay.aspx) (I hope the link is ok by forum rules). The younger kids 2+ can play with the push trains and the older ones can use the battery operated ones. There are even remote-controlled Brio engines nowadays. I'd say from 2 to about 8-9 the Brio is the best and then you can go to the H0/00 and other more realistic ones. The Brio has wooden tracks that are almost impossible to break and they are easy for young children to build by themselves. Just buy lots of straights (get plenty of the very small ones too as you need those for fine tuning) and curves (prefer the normal curves, the short ones turn a little too fast for the battery operated trains) and turnouts (remember there are two kinds of turnouts: the "plain" aka no-control and the "mechanical" where you can control where the trains goes; for the battery trains be sure to buy the latter type). Do not buy any of the lifting bridges and any of the pieces where the track is built elevated as those get knocked down during play; do buy some of the intersections and some of the fixed bridges as those are nice.

If you are interested I can attach a few pics of the Brio layouts that we have done over the years.

The above is one person's opinion but it has been play-tested for 7 years (my older is now 9 and the younger is 7). Oh, and If your wife asks then H0/00 is fine as we all know it wasn't meant for the kids anyway  :D

Cheers,

Jari

(My personal plan is to install a G-scale (45mm, gauge 1) garden railway in the back yard "for the kids". We moved in at the end of last summer and there is still some things to finish on the house and the yard before the railway construction can start (plus need a little money for that, too, but isn't that always the case?). The house was built during the previous year, which has kept us pretty busy and also partly explains my very intermittent participation on this site... Anyway I already have the most important ingredient for succesfull railway construction: the wife's permission to do so. I don't think she fully realised what she promised when she accepted the garden railway for the back yard but I drop some hints every now and then to keep her interest up  :bugeye: . This is a very long-term project so don't expect any pictures of this in the next few years or so...)

Offline krv3000

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Re: Which model train
« Reply #12 on: May 06, 2013, 03:55:59 PM »
yep but can anyone remember tt gage by tryang

Offline andyf

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Re: Which model train
« Reply #13 on: May 06, 2013, 04:31:50 PM »
Now you have reminded me, Bob, I can just remember it. 3mm = 1 foot, or about 1:120. Wikipedia says it still has a niche following in the UK and US, but is stronger in continental Europe and Russia.

I can also remember The Great Change 55 years ago, when my brother and I switched from 3-rail Hornby Dublo to 2-rail Triang.

Andy.
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Offline mklotz

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Re: Which model train
« Reply #14 on: May 06, 2013, 04:50:39 PM »
If you go to Z scale (1:220) you can put a credible layout on a 20 x 30" board...

http://www.iblproducts.com/tessin.htm

One of the fellows at the local train show brings his complete Z setup in a suitcase.  He opens it, pulls the rolling stock out of custom-fitted padded slots in the top of the case, and is ready to run in about ten minutes.
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Offline krv3000

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Re: Which model train
« Reply #15 on: May 06, 2013, 07:06:25 PM »
i had to sell me tt gage to get funds while i was out of work  :palm:

Offline raynerd

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Re: Which model train
« Reply #16 on: May 11, 2013, 04:50:20 PM »
Jiihoo - thanks for the info but brio was purchased before he was even born in preparation for him coming alone. As Don eluded to, the electric train is really for me to play with, with them :-) thanks for all the info everyone. I was lucky enough that I mentioned it to my dad and he came over last night with his classic old OO track and engines. What I want to know is, why the heck has he just got this out now I'm 29!!!
Chris

Offline dsquire

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Re: Which model train
« Reply #17 on: May 11, 2013, 05:43:54 PM »
Jiihoo - thanks for the info but brio was purchased before he was even born in preparation for him coming alone. As Don eluded to, the electric train is really for me to play with, with them :-)

I know how that works Chris. With me it was slot cars, Radio Control Planes, Boats and Cars. Now it is mostly my son that plays with them but the old man still enjoys them once in a while.
 
Quote
thanks for all the info everyone. I was lucky enough that I mentioned it to my dad and he came over last night with his classic old OO track and engines. What I want to know is, why the heck has he just got this out now I'm 29!!!
Chris

Chris, he was just waiting till he was sure you would use them properly. You know how some kids think walls are for writing on and cars and trains should be thrown and not driven. That may have been a valid excuse 28 years ago but why he waited so long I don't know. What ever you end up getting I am sure that you will share many happy hours in the years to come and someday you will be able to help pass it on to your grandson.  :D :)

Cheers  :beer:

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Offline John Hill

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Re: Which model train
« Reply #18 on: May 11, 2013, 11:54:37 PM »
I suggest 'L' gauge, Lego trains for a very young child, if they don't like trains the toys will still get played with..


IMGP0132 by aardvark_akubra, on Flickr

But you do need a big room for a permanent layout, something like a double garage is quite nice!

IMGP0102 by aardvark_akubra, on Flickr
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Offline jiihoo

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Re: Which model train
« Reply #19 on: May 13, 2013, 03:42:16 AM »
I was lucky enough that I mentioned it to my dad and he came over last night with his classic old OO track and engines. What I want to know is, why the heck has he just got this out now I'm 29!!!
Nice! Can we have some pics when you are playing I mean testing them?

Cheers,

Jari