Author Topic: Thoughts about making ladles  (Read 12478 times)

Offline S. Heslop

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Re: Thoughts about making ladles
« Reply #25 on: June 09, 2013, 09:41:21 PM »
Rob, Neo, Double, Mick thanks!

The unfold tool is by Jim Folz and is available here:

http://sketchuptips.blogspot.com/2007/08/plugin-unfoldrb.html

I use it with an older version of the free version of SketchUp (version 7.1). Along with tools for exporting DXF files and the PhlatBoyz CAM CNC Router output plugin, it makes free Sketcup a much more powerful tool.


For those who want to do similar things to the crucible design without using a CAD program, there is an online  program to generate the projected shape for cutting out cone sections from sheet metal here:

http://www.i-logic.com/conecalc.htm.

I wish I knew about this earlier. There's been a few times in the past where this tool would've saved me a bit of bother. I'm sure i'll get a chance to use it at some point too so thanks for posting it.

Offline vtsteam

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Re: Thoughts about making ladles
« Reply #26 on: June 09, 2013, 10:42:15 PM »
You're welcome S. Heslop!

Just now trying to figure out which I should do: make a pouring shank of the ring type to fit the new pot, or just weld a long Tee handle directly onto it?

Any opinions out there?

I love it when a Plan B comes together!
Steve
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Offline ironman

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Re: Thoughts about making ladles
« Reply #27 on: June 18, 2013, 08:31:12 PM »
vtsteam

Here is a video of a cupola exactly like yours and they use the exhaust vent to preheat the ladle

 
« Last Edit: June 18, 2013, 09:57:42 PM by dsquire »

Offline vtsteam

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Re: Thoughts about making ladles
« Reply #28 on: June 18, 2013, 09:18:30 PM »
Yes that works well there.

Boy, they have a lot more height and they're using coke. I'm really doubting whether I will have enough heat to melt iron at all with my setup.  :(

I love it when a Plan B comes together!
Steve
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Offline awemawson

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Re: Thoughts about making ladles
« Reply #29 on: June 19, 2013, 04:23:34 AM »
Just shows what you can do when Health & Safety stay away for the day  :lol:
Andrew Mawson
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Offline Mayhem

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Re: Thoughts about making ladles
« Reply #30 on: June 19, 2013, 07:15:53 AM »
You have to love how American's cheer for anything and everything  :clap:

VT - I guess there is only one way to find out if yours works.  If not, I'm sure you could add more hight.  Or is the issue that you want to use charcoal and not coke?

Also, what were they doing at around the 9-10 minute mark?  Was that a small blower they were adding?

I wonder how Rob is going...

Offline vtsteam

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Re: Thoughts about making ladles
« Reply #31 on: June 19, 2013, 09:56:04 AM »
Mayhem, yes I could add more height with an extension, and yes the idea was to use charcoal made here. We'll just have to wait and see. I could also go waste oil crucible, etc. But my real hope was for a single charge charcoal melter, either cupola or crucible.

Toward the end they broach the furnace shell and refractory  with a bar, leaving the blast on which they deflect with a shovel, then drive a pipe in through, and duct tape a second blower on.

Awemawson, that video was absorbing to watch on the other side of a computer screen, but not live, not my cup of tea in just about every way. Great gobs of bot, patted by hand into place, broaching walls with the blast on, a tangle of inexperienced helpers, and a bunch of spectators is not quite how I imagine wanting to work with iron.  Concentration is more admirable than heedless showmanship.
I love it when a Plan B comes together!
Steve
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Offline vtsteam

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Re: Thoughts about making ladles
« Reply #32 on: August 03, 2013, 12:07:12 PM »
We were talking about making crucibles on my oil furnace thread, and it seemed like it would fit in better here, since the ladle I made could actually be used as a crucible to melt aluminum or any of the copper containing metals.

But also of interest is the possibility of making an iron melting crucible. Neotech linked to a youtube video of a crucible being home made with graphite, using a press. Although this one, in the end was only used to melt aluminum -- no mention of its suitability for iron. And Vince Gingery wrote a book about using a press to make non-ferrous melting ceramic crucibles -- without graphite.

With the right ingredients seems like you could make one on a pottery wheel with a bilge shape, unlike the prior two.

But what interests me is probably the simplest and oldest pottery making method -- coil forming. And it doesn't require a press, or a wheel or any other special equipment. So, I'm thinking about that. Just thought I'd put it out there.
I love it when a Plan B comes together!
Steve
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Offline vtsteam

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Re: Thoughts about making ladles
« Reply #33 on: August 03, 2013, 12:32:03 PM »
This is a particularly instructive video about commercial crucible making



But also check out the segment at about 3:14 "rib forming" which looks like it might be appicable to smaller scale crucible forming.



I love it when a Plan B comes together!
Steve
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Offline NeoTech

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Re: Thoughts about making ladles
« Reply #34 on: August 03, 2013, 01:19:45 PM »
the biggest problem with coil forming is that its hard to keep the wall thickness the same over the whole shape especially you do the bilge shape..

On way is to mix the clay up and make it more lika slurry and go about casting the shape needed. All needed for casting in clay is a gypsym mold that can be created on wood plug. the two parts is then let dry 1-2 days until they start to be "leathery".. then a thin water film to moist the contact surfaces and you squish em together and smooth out the seem... And then let dry a bit more before burning them in the furnace..

Stoneware is usually burned in 1350 degrees for 4-6 hours depending on surface coat or no coat.. But its a ramped up temperature.. Buut can be done with propane burners and a stopwatch. =)
Machinery: Optimum D320x920, Optimum BF20L, Aciera F3. -- I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work. http://www.roughedge.se/blogg/

Offline vtsteam

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Re: Thoughts about making ladles
« Reply #35 on: August 03, 2013, 02:43:12 PM »
the biggest problem with coil forming is that its hard to keep the wall thickness the same over the whole shape especially you do the bilge shape..

I don't think that would necessarily be a problem, within limits. These would not be for sale for home decoration. I've seen some extremely fine coil and pinch work, btw. Not that I'm probably capable of it!

I do know about slip forming, though I wonder if it would work with iron crucible materials, like graphite, etc. Plaster of Paris is used for the molds here.

For long firing time there may be a few alternatives. Sounds expensive for propane. I'm thinking a wood/charcoal fired kiln here. If you could do say a dozen at a time, you could build  temporary kiln, like a brick kiln to do the batch.

I love it when a Plan B comes together!
Steve
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Offline vtsteam

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Re: Thoughts about making ladles
« Reply #36 on: August 03, 2013, 02:56:48 PM »
I guess the biggest problem toward an experiment would be finding a proper recipe and materials for iron melting. It would be a lot of wasted work if you didn't have those right.
I love it when a Plan B comes together!
Steve
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Offline NeoTech

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Re: Thoughts about making ladles
« Reply #37 on: August 03, 2013, 03:46:42 PM »
I think a deep dive into the alloyavenue forum and some good old book reading is in place.. its a goodproject - if one figure it out. =)
Machinery: Optimum D320x920, Optimum BF20L, Aciera F3. -- I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work. http://www.roughedge.se/blogg/

Offline Meldonmech

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Re: Thoughts about making ladles
« Reply #38 on: August 04, 2013, 09:56:39 AM »
Hi,

            The ladels I have used have been hemispherical, with a pouring lip and I have never experienced any problems.

                         Cheers David

Offline NeoTech

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Re: Thoughts about making ladles
« Reply #39 on: August 04, 2013, 12:47:48 PM »
Oh the laddle thread was converted to a crucible making thread though. =)
Still good to know..

Been looking into mothers ceramic stuff vendors.. seems i could conjour up all the materials needed for trying to make a crucible clay, the glace is another matter.. it would need to be some zirconium based glace to really withstand heat.
Machinery: Optimum D320x920, Optimum BF20L, Aciera F3. -- I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work. http://www.roughedge.se/blogg/

Offline vtsteam

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Re: Thoughts about making ladles
« Reply #40 on: August 04, 2013, 04:17:25 PM »
Hi,

            The ladels I have used have been hemispherical, with a pouring lip and I have never experienced any problems.

                         Cheers David

Hemispherical should be a good pouring shape for a ladle. Just like a soup ladle!
I love it when a Plan B comes together!
Steve
www.sredmond.com

Offline ironman

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Re: Thoughts about making ladles
« Reply #41 on: August 09, 2013, 02:55:38 AM »
vtsteam Thank you for posting that crucible video it was very informative! It even shows isostatic pressing which I wondered how it was done.

Here is my attempt at using a lump of coke and machined it in the lathe to get the crucible shape. It was used in a microwave oven to melt pewter to pour into a silicon rubber mold.

Offline NeoTech

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Re: Thoughts about making ladles
« Reply #42 on: August 09, 2013, 03:11:05 AM »
Isnt turning coke kinda harsh on the machine with all the powders coming off of it?
Machinery: Optimum D320x920, Optimum BF20L, Aciera F3. -- I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work. http://www.roughedge.se/blogg/

Offline vtsteam

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Re: Thoughts about making ladles
« Reply #43 on: August 09, 2013, 08:03:28 AM »
Wow, Ironman, that was quite an experiment!  :bow: :bow:  :bow: You've found a lot of uses for micowave ovens -- and parts of them.

A place I used to work at used graphite crucibles to do thin film metal deposition on optical filters. As an experiment I once turned one from raw graphite stock for them, but there were too many impurities in it apparently to be useful.

But turning coke is I imagine much more difficult than graphite. Graphite is merely soft, messy and delicate -- but uniform. I imagine coke is not quite so simple. I've also turned graphite to make a hot air engine power piston.

One more example of the amazing stuff you've tried and succeeded with.  :beer:


I love it when a Plan B comes together!
Steve
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Offline ironman

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Re: Thoughts about making ladles
« Reply #44 on: August 09, 2013, 09:13:59 PM »
NeoTech

I covered the lathe with rags to protect the slides and used a vacuum cleaner to suck up the dust before it spread all over the lathe.

Certain coals contain pitch which bonds the carbon to make coke. Pitch is also used to bond coke dust to make carbon electrodes for arc furnaces.

When a crucible says it is carbon bonded it uses pitch as a binder.