Author Topic: workshop insulation ?(& shop build diary)  (Read 17542 times)

ja2on

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workshop insulation ?(& shop build diary)
« on: March 09, 2009, 04:31:12 PM »
My workshop delivery is only a week away now  :ddb:
And I need some advise on insulating and panelling it out
It is a wooden workshop (shed) with some sort of plastic vapour barrier aprox 8' x 18' external
I have use of half as a workshop so it will have a insulated  partition wall and door in the centre

I have searched the interweb and have found nothing but conflicting advise  :bang:

Ideally I would like to use 75mm kingspan or celotex type insulation for the walls and roof (if I can afford it if not rock wool)
with thin ply for the roof and thicker for the walls (to support shelves and stuff)

on other forums people have been saying you need air gaps,  don't use ply use plaster board  :scratch:
I am confused

What can I do for the floor ?
« Last Edit: March 20, 2009, 06:02:15 PM by ja2on »

Offline John Hill

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Re: workshop insulation ?
« Reply #1 on: March 09, 2009, 04:41:44 PM »
Sorry, I cant comment on the walls and insulation as your climate and availability of stuff whould be quite different to here but for the floor I doubt many around here would not choose a cement pad.
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bogstandard

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Re: workshop insulation ?
« Reply #2 on: March 09, 2009, 05:55:31 PM »
Jason,

What you have to be careful of is losing space. Unless you put the 75mm Kingspan between the uprights, you would automatically lose 6" on the width and length of your shop. I personally, because you have a vapour barrier already in, would plasterboard over the uprights and fill the gaps behind with Rockwool. Doing it that way would be a lot cheaper and also you would only lose about 1" in length and width, and the shop would be able to 'breathe'.

You have to be very careful when insulating a workshop, it needs to have some sort of ventilation, as even just being in there and breathing can cause major corrosion problems on machinery and tools, and any fossil fuel heaters, paraffin or gas, should be kept well away from the shop. They produce a lot of water vapour. I left my metal door uninsulated, and the very small gap around it keeps my shop bone dry.

My shop is a sectional concrete, and I stuck the plasterboard with built on 1" foam insulation straight onto the walls, after chasing out the back of each panel for electrical service cables, 1 double socket every four feet.

The floor will present a problem if it is just wooden planks. You will have trouble supporting heavy machinery without it going thru the floor. You can get around that by putting sheets of metal down to spread the loads. Also planked floors tend to be draughty, with the wind blowing up your trouser legs. If you are using a concrete floor, no problems. Either a cheap cushionfloor all over, or an industrial grade rubber matting where you will be standing will keep your feet from getting cold. I'm hard, and have no covering on mine, but it makes cleaning up a lot easier. Also, now I have an oil filled radiator in, that is on all the time during winter, I find the floor and shop a nice comfortable t-shirt working temperature.

The stud wall can just be plasterboarded with Rockwool in the cavity.

Not comprehensive, but I hope it helps.

John

Offline HS93

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Re: workshop insulation ?
« Reply #3 on: March 09, 2009, 06:13:49 PM »
Have a look at this type of insulation , save on space and it works very well, there is anothere one made up of several layers that is better i think i will try and find a web address, have a look at the PDF's for some ideas.

http://www.screwfix.com/prods/50913?cm_sp=AOVDriver-_-Building-_-Doubleinsulation&ts=36319#

http://www.screwfix.com/prods/37037/Building/Roofing-Insulation/Breather-Foil-for-Timber-Frame-1350mm-x-25m

Peter
I am usless at metalwork, Oh and cannot spell either . failure

ja2on

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Re: workshop insulation ?
« Reply #4 on: March 09, 2009, 06:16:56 PM »
Hi John

I was planning on insulating between the uprights and not on top

Rockwool sound good then as I doubt I can stretch to kingspan plus I want to be able to afford tools and a mill in the future
Wickes also have buy one get one free on rockwool at the moment

I believe the floor is 3 quarter inch osb which has a 3" air gap underneath
the demo shed floor felt plenty strong but I plan to add another layer for strength
I have a c4 lathe and plan for a mini mill or x3 so nothing huge is going in

My concern with plaster board was that I would knock holes in it as I am a clumsy bloke sometimes  :hammer:

jay

EDIT thanks peter I didn't know about that stuff
my other concern that I forgot mention is noise the shop will be quite close to our neighbours and I don't want to upset them
« Last Edit: March 09, 2009, 06:20:10 PM by ja2on »

Offline HS93

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Re: workshop insulation ?
« Reply #5 on: March 09, 2009, 06:18:47 PM »
this is the product, I have some samples of it, remarkable stuff, well worth the price because of the space saved,

Peter



http://www.just-insulation.com/super10.html
I am usless at metalwork, Oh and cannot spell either . failure

ja2on

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Re: workshop insulation ?
« Reply #6 on: March 09, 2009, 06:29:23 PM »
this is the product, I have some samples of it, remarkable stuff, well worth the price because of the space saved,

Peter



http://www.just-insulation.com/super10.html

"equivalent of 210mm of mineral wool"  :bugeye: blimey

Offline John Hill

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Re: workshop insulation ?
« Reply #7 on: March 09, 2009, 06:36:20 PM »
If you are worried about knocking holes in the plaster board just put thin ply on top of it from bench height up 60cm or so (i.e. half a sheet width).  That will save the plaster board where you are most likely to bump it and will give something to fix light stuff to.  Just an idea.

While I think of it, how about putting some extra dwangs in so that you have more horizontals to fix hanging stuff to?
« Last Edit: March 09, 2009, 06:38:16 PM by John Hill »
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bogstandard

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Re: workshop insulation ?
« Reply #8 on: March 09, 2009, 07:02:11 PM »
Quote
My concern with plaster board was that I would knock holes in it as I am a clumsy bloke sometimes 

Holes in walls!!!!

Methinks you will only be playing at it.

This was mine during a recent refurb



The rest of the place was like that. I use the metal screw in plasterboard plugs, and this is what it looks like after you have used them like I do, then decide to move things around.

People can't believe how much weight I have hanging on my 12mm plasterbard walls, just using these screws. I have no backing woodwork, so all I can use is the plasterboard itself, and everything is solid (well almost, but will be as soon as I get some metal bracing between shelves).

If you have holes in plasterboard, just stick a bit of filler in and cover it up. It is not as though it is in your living room. The walls will soon get filthy anyway.

John

ja2on

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Re: workshop insulation ?
« Reply #9 on: March 10, 2009, 02:49:40 PM »

Thanks for everybody's input  :thumbup:

For cost reasons it will have to be rockwooll the other solutions sound good but will leave me skint for to long
and unable to enjoy the workshop

plaster board it is then John any objection to the foil backed variety's of plasterboard ?

Offline Bourne Bill

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Re: workshop insulation ?
« Reply #10 on: March 10, 2009, 04:38:32 PM »
when I built my garage (26 x40) I insulated it with 3 1/2" fiberglass insulation and applied pre painted pegboard over it. No sheetrock to finish, and you can hang things anywhere in the shop!!!!!
Life is short, eat dessert first...........

Offline SPiN Racing

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Re: workshop insulation ?
« Reply #11 on: March 10, 2009, 07:07:25 PM »
On my little messy garage.. I used 5/8 marine plywood for the external walls, with 12 Penny nails and Liquid nails between all the joints and boards.
Inside, I only have the wall behind my workbench complete. (Its like 25 feet from my mill and lathe damnit.) But for that I put in R15 fiberglass insulation, and then 1/2 Inch playwood. No Drywall/sheetrock. Why?  The plywood was actually CHEAPER than drywall. And since its the workbench, and or a garage, that will potentially have things banging into things, as well as hung on it.. I went with the stronger wood.

Oh and we have these little rainstorms called Hurricanes that come through once in a while. So everything I did for the garage is at least double, or triple strength.
With the exception of the roof clips... I needed 650 pounds of uplift on every 3rd stud. I found some much nicer shaped, brackets that encase the tip of the studs. And were about 5 cents more per bracket. They also are 2800 pounds of uplift PER clip. SO I put them on every other stud.

That combined with the double wall plus insulation.. the garage is pretty quiet, and not a peep from the building in crazy storms.

I have been out there when a tropical storm goes through and its real quiet when there are 70+ mph gusts of wind and rain.
Interior temperature is very slow to change as well Night and day it stays the same inside.. about the same as the 5AM temperature all day and night.
SPiN Racing

Offline ProficientBumbler

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Re: workshop insulation ?
« Reply #12 on: March 12, 2009, 03:19:26 AM »
In case you needed a few more opinions, I did my garage with R13 insulation & 7/16" osb. I don't have to worry about holes as you would with drywall/sheetrock, plus it gives more strength for hanging items including shelving if you don't weigh them down to heavy. The osb was about the same cost as drywall/sheetrock as I remember.
I used 3" wood screws to attach the osb to the studs.
Thanks,
Brian

Offline HS93

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Re: workshop insulation ?
« Reply #13 on: March 12, 2009, 06:09:56 AM »
      3" screws to hold 7/16 osb was that so you could hang your hat on the other side ??   :scratch:


Peter

 :ddb:
 :ddb:
 :ddb:
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Offline Bourne Bill

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Re: workshop insulation ?
« Reply #14 on: March 12, 2009, 06:44:14 AM »
building inspector must be a stickler in your neighborhood, did he specify galvanized?
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Offline SPiN Racing

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Re: workshop insulation ?
« Reply #15 on: March 12, 2009, 10:53:14 AM »
(All my nails were galv, right through the pressure treated marine green wood.. and liquid nails  :hammer: )
Yes Overkill
SPiN Racing

Offline ProficientBumbler

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Re: workshop insulation ?
« Reply #16 on: March 12, 2009, 02:12:34 PM »
      3" screws to hold 7/16 osb was that so you could hang your hat on the other side ??   :scratch:


Peter

 :ddb:
 :ddb:
 :ddb:

I know it is overkill but I had a partial bucket of them leftover from a previous application, so figured no sense in going out to buy something when I had something already available. They went in to 2x4 studs (which are 3-1/2" wide) so no hat hangers.
I put some 6" lag bolts into the ceiling joists to hang my hats!  :D
Thanks,
Brian

ja2on

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Re: workshop insulation ?
« Reply #17 on: March 18, 2009, 06:01:19 PM »
Just a quick pick of my tiny shed
first thing to do is build a stud wall inside to split it in half (half garden shed and half cosy workshop )
and the lock and hinge security need beefing up the key looks like it came out of a Christmas cracker
and the hinges need some Clutch Head screws or coach bolts
« Last Edit: March 18, 2009, 06:08:22 PM by ja2on »

bogstandard

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Re: workshop insulation ?
« Reply #18 on: March 18, 2009, 07:19:40 PM »
Jason,

Real nice workshop. Don't give up too much space to the gardening thing, it is only a passing craze. You will only have to reclaim it sometime in the future, just like I did.

After having the doors removed from my previous wooden workshop a few times, I tried everything, internal bolts,coach bolts thru the hinges, deadlocks, multi lever locks etc.
I eventually fitted an el cheapo shed alarm (about 25 squid from Wickes). It stopped them dead in their tracks, as soon as they tried to move the doors, the mag switches got them, and if they tried the window, the PIR inside picked them up. One thing they don't like is noise, the other is a dog hangin' on their soft or dangly bits.

The same alarm is now protecting my concrete bunker.

Bogs

ja2on

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Re: workshop insulation ?
« Reply #19 on: March 18, 2009, 07:32:19 PM »
I was contemplating an alarm in b&q earlier this evening while buying some timber but decided to wait until I have finished the insulation and panelling before getting one
as nothing is going in the shop until that is finished
I could wire the shop into the garage next door as that is tied in to the house alarm but some people forget to set that one at night  :bang:
so I think a separate alarm will be better 

Offline John Hill

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Re: workshop insulation ?
« Reply #20 on: March 18, 2009, 09:38:50 PM »
My shed has basic security in the way of locks etc but it also has an old telephone button pad mounted in a little glass fronted cabinet,  the 'cabinet' has a little keyhole apparently so you can unlock it to gain access to the buttons.  There is also a cheap flashing LED that blinks day and night and is actually powered by the doorbell power supply!

Dont tell anyone but the buttons are not connected to anything and the glass fronted cabinet would not open if you you had a key to put in that little hole!
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Offline sbwhart

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Re: workshop insulation ?
« Reply #21 on: March 19, 2009, 04:35:49 AM »
Hi Jay ?

I've got one of those B&Q alarms fitted to my shop, plus bars on the window, and a curtain that I close when I'm not in there, a good yale lock and no screws head on the outside of the door. and a movement outdoor light so the shop is illuminated if any one aproaches it. All that and the fact that its well away from site, seems to work for me (touch wood).

Stew
A little bit of clearance never got in the road
 :wave:

Location:- Crewe Cheshire

Offline Twinsquirrel

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Re: workshop insulation ?
« Reply #22 on: March 19, 2009, 04:54:58 AM »
Hi Jason,

Great looking workshop, just think of all the things that will be born in there. Mrs. Twinsquirrel calls my workshop the "playhouse" and she is quite right.

As far as security goes, I have a small alarm, covered screws and bolts and curtains at the windows but I'm sure none of this would stop the determined thief. Give your local cop shop a call and ask to speak the the crime prevention officer, they will usually offer to pop around and give you some advice about cheap things you can do around your property to make it less inviting to the scum who may have their eyes on yor kit.

My workshop is on a piece of leased land at the end of my garden with a public right of way in between so I am not allowed to put the barbed wire and electric fences that I wanted to down there but the the police recomended spikey shrubs and good lighting to make it less inviting, seems to have worked so far, touch wood.

David
So many ideas, so little skill

ja2on

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Re: workshop insulation ?
« Reply #23 on: March 19, 2009, 05:12:43 PM »
B&Q just got some more of my money

4 zones 2 sensors and 2 door switches
maybe overkill but i can have a pir in each section and a switch on each door all wired up to a different zone for fault finding if needed  :zap:
I went for the slightly dearer option as it has optional battery back up
also bought a nice interior door for the partition
at 17 it's not worth making one   ::)

bogstandard

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Re: workshop insulation ?
« Reply #24 on: March 19, 2009, 09:48:31 PM »
Nice one Jason, money well spent.

That will put your mind at ease.

John

ja2on

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Re: workshop insulation ?
« Reply #25 on: March 20, 2009, 05:58:23 PM »
I could not wait until the weekend to start so I cracked on and started the partition after work  :dremel:


bogstandard

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Re: workshop insulation ?(& shop build diary)
« Reply #26 on: March 20, 2009, 06:31:45 PM »
Don't forget Jason,

Loads of good storage in the roof space for very little outlay.

John

ja2on

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Re: workshop insulation ?(& shop build diary)
« Reply #27 on: April 02, 2009, 03:50:34 PM »
nearly there but no piccies yet I just wanted to say that insulating the roof with rock wool is going on my list of jobs I never want to do again  :D

Offline shoey51

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Re: workshop insulation ?(& shop build diary)
« Reply #28 on: April 09, 2009, 07:19:11 PM »
nearly there but no piccies yet I just wanted to say that insulating the roof with rock wool is going on my list of jobs I never want to do again  :D
After crawling around in my roof space I would have to agree. it was 50C + in there when I was insulating with rockwool ::)

Offline Stilldrillin

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Re: workshop insulation ?(& shop build diary)
« Reply #29 on: April 10, 2009, 02:06:14 AM »
nearly there but no piccies yet I just wanted to say that insulating the roof with rock wool is going on my list of jobs I never want to do again  :D
After crawling around in my roof space I would have to agree. it was 50C + in there when I was insulating with rockwool ::)

Graham,

We need the heat in.......... You need the heat out:scratch:

Opposite sides of the world...... Opposite problems.  :wave:

If only we could set up some sort of heat exchanger system......  :smart:

David.
David.

Still drilling holes... Sometimes, in the right place!

Still modifying bits of metal... Occasionally, making an improvement!

Offline shoey51

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Re: workshop insulation ?(& shop build diary)
« Reply #30 on: April 10, 2009, 03:36:49 AM »
heat exchanger system would be a great idea David but the distance is a killa :D

Offline Stilldrillin

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Re: workshop insulation ?(& shop build diary)
« Reply #31 on: April 10, 2009, 03:46:41 AM »
heat exchanger system would be a great idea David but the distance is a killa :D


 :lol: :lol: :lol:
David.

Still drilling holes... Sometimes, in the right place!

Still modifying bits of metal... Occasionally, making an improvement!

Offline Bernd

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Re: workshop insulation ?(& shop build diary)
« Reply #32 on: April 10, 2009, 09:20:03 AM »
heat exchanger system would be a great idea David but the distance is a killa :D


 :lol:   :lol:   :lol:   :lol:   :lol:   :lol:   :lol:
Good insulation would take care of that, but the cost would be the killa.
You can't fix "STUPID".

Offline dsquire

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Re: workshop insulation ?(& shop build diary)
« Reply #33 on: April 11, 2009, 07:39:05 AM »
nearly there but no piccies yet I just wanted to say that insulating the roof with rock wool is going on my list of jobs I never want to do again  :D
After crawling around in my roof space I would have to agree. it was 50C + in there when I was insulating with rockwool ::)

Graham,

We need the heat in.......... You need the heat out:scratch:

Opposite sides of the world...... Opposite problems.  :wave:

If only we could set up some sort of heat exchanger system......  :smart:

David.

What we need is a world wide pipe line for hot air. We could kill 2 birds with one stone.

1. warm the colder parts of the world thereby cooling the hotter parts of the world.

2. Have a ready made place to throw politicians. They are nothing but hot air anyway.

The distance might be a killa,

The cost might be a killa,

But, getting rid of the lieing, cheating thieving politicians,   PRICELESS!
 :lol:      :lol:      :lol:      :lol:      :lol:      :lol:

That is how I see it anyway.

Cheers :beer:

Don
« Last Edit: April 11, 2009, 01:24:06 PM by dsquire »
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bogstandard

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Re: workshop insulation ?(& shop build diary)
« Reply #34 on: April 11, 2009, 08:02:59 AM »
There there Don,

Don't lets get carried away, not all politicians are liars, cheats and thieves.

Some have died in the past few years. :lol:


Bogs

Offline dsquire

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Re: workshop insulation ?(& shop build diary)
« Reply #35 on: April 11, 2009, 09:05:52 AM »
There there Don,

Don't lets get carried away, not all politicians are liars, cheats and thieves.

Some have died in the past few years. :lol:


Bogs

You're right John, but some of them were so bad it takes many years for them to cool off to the point we can forget about them.

Cheers  :beer:

Don
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Offline Bernd

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Re: workshop insulation ?(& shop build diary)
« Reply #36 on: April 11, 2009, 11:09:34 AM »
Makes me wonder how much heat we could get out of our current leaders! :D

Probably melt both polar caps. Then were would the polar bears be?

Bernd
You can't fix "STUPID".

ja2on

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Re: workshop insulation ?(& shop build diary)
« Reply #37 on: April 13, 2009, 10:48:16 AM »
not much to show guys I have had a bad week with delly belly and now a rotten cold




I hope to finish painting this afternoon once I have watched the British superbikes on telly
Then I just have to wait for payday so I can build the benches.

Then it's swarf time  :dremel:  :ddb: :ddb: :ddb:

bogstandard

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Re: workshop insulation ?(& shop build diary)
« Reply #38 on: April 13, 2009, 12:34:11 PM »
Very nice Jason.

A good touch, light walls a multiple flo tubes. Even though the walls do get dirty, it makes machining so much better, because of all the reflected, non directional light.

Bogs

ja2on

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Re: workshop insulation ?(& shop build diary)
« Reply #39 on: April 25, 2009, 12:38:19 PM »
I have finally finished one bench  :hammer:


the sieg C4/chester commet was bl**dy heavy for a small lathe and it didn't help that a hit my knee cap with it as
we struggled to put it on the bench


And finally (I bought the c4 in February  :lol: )
I can begin the ritual of removing the red goo
 

bogstandard

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Re: workshop insulation ?(& shop build diary)
« Reply #40 on: April 25, 2009, 12:57:19 PM »
That is looking great Jason.

That is going to end up as a mouthwatering workshop. Very few people can begin with a blank canvas as you have, and start off with the machines and equipment they really want in there.

I'll bet your fingers are twitching to get it all up and running.

Steve has one of those C4's and he is over the moon with it. Maybe he can give you some pointers on setting it up, as he has had it a fair while now and will know the shortcuts.

BTW, you should level the lathe, the wall socket can take care of itself  :lol:

Bogs
« Last Edit: April 25, 2009, 01:00:37 PM by bogstandard »

Offline sbwhart

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Re: workshop insulation ?(& shop build diary)
« Reply #41 on: April 25, 2009, 01:54:56 PM »
That look a tidy set up you,re getting there I bet you can't wait to spoil it with swarf.

Have Fun

Stew
A little bit of clearance never got in the road
 :wave:

Location:- Crewe Cheshire

Offline Divided he ad

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Re: workshop insulation ?(& shop build diary)
« Reply #42 on: May 02, 2009, 07:05:07 AM »
Looking good there Jason :thumbup:

It must be nice to start a shop from scratch? Making a home for everything instead of making everything fit in!

I can't help looking at all that space under the bench and thinking of the trays I used in mine....

Shameless link time..... http://madmodder.net/index.php?topic=395.0

They really do make multiple  :proj: afflictions work together!!  I stick a bit of tape on the front of each one  and write it's project on with a marker.... It's doing the job as planned :thumbup:

I'm quite intrigued to see where you go with the rest of this ?



That looks like a mighty fine lathe too.... Red goo, who was it termed it "dragons blood"?  Gutted John got in there with the level joke :lol: 
Anyway,

Looking forward to your first project post too  :dremel:   :thumbup: .



Ralph.

I know what I know and need to know more!!!