Author Topic: Buying Crucibles and other what nots.  (Read 13036 times)

Offline NeoTech

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Buying Crucibles and other what nots.
« on: July 14, 2013, 03:12:13 AM »
I noticed that http://www.budgetcastingsupply.com/ now has stopped all shipping internationally. Where the **** do you get hold of crucibles, and other stuff you need.

Is there a UK shop that deals with us hobbyists??
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Offline rschilp

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Re: Buying Crucibles and other what nots.
« Reply #1 on: July 14, 2013, 03:31:44 AM »
I noticed that to right before I moved from the US, so I bought supplies to last a while.

Offline awemawson

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Re: Buying Crucibles and other what nots.
« Reply #2 on: July 14, 2013, 04:04:31 AM »
So we know that you are 5000 miles from where you were, but where are you now? Your profile still says Texas !
Andrew Mawson
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Offline Jonfb64

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Re: Buying Crucibles and other what nots.
« Reply #3 on: July 14, 2013, 04:29:17 AM »

Offline Bluechip

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Re: Buying Crucibles and other what nots.
« Reply #4 on: July 14, 2013, 06:43:40 AM »
http://www.johnwinter.co.uk/model-engineering/model-engineering
 
 
Is on the ME site, other than that I have no info.
 
Dave
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Offline rschilp

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Re: Buying Crucibles and other what nots.
« Reply #5 on: July 14, 2013, 06:55:33 AM »
So we know that you are 5000 miles from where you were, but where are you now? Your profile still says Texas !

Haven't updated my profile yet, I just moved back to the Netherlands a few weeks ago

Offline NeoTech

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Re: Buying Crucibles and other what nots.
« Reply #6 on: July 14, 2013, 11:22:06 AM »
Johwinters dont ship to sweden either did the let me know, i have mailed Artisan Foundry now and asked them as well, thanks for tip. =)
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Offline S. Heslop

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Re: Buying Crucibles and other what nots.
« Reply #7 on: July 14, 2013, 09:01:47 PM »
In the UK there are a couple stores selling crucibles through ebay. Might be the same for Sweden.

Offline NeoTech

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Re: Buying Crucibles and other what nots.
« Reply #8 on: July 15, 2013, 02:01:45 AM »
Sad to say but casting in aluminium is not a common knowledge in Sweden, its considered hazardous and left to professionals or third world countries.
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Offline vtsteam

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Re: Buying Crucibles and other what nots.
« Reply #9 on: July 15, 2013, 06:14:29 AM »
If you're going to cast in aluminum, NeoTech, you really don't need special crucibles, or other high priced items from Budget Casting Supply.

Aluminum can be melted in any reasonably durable steel or iron container of 3 or 4 inches in diameter. If you want to avoid any metal contamination from iron, just line it with sand/clay mix -- like an iron pouring ladle is lined.

Additives, fluxes, etc, are not nearly as good as simply using clean aluminum, and covering the melt with a little charcoal, and not stirring it. Just skim the dross and pour.

Well, also important is to use cast aluminum scrap instead of extruded, if you want best results.

Aluminum can be melted over just about any kind of fire or fuel. In fact I'm thinking about building a wood fired aluminum melter.
I love it when a Plan B comes together!
Steve
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Offline NeoTech

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Re: Buying Crucibles and other what nots.
« Reply #10 on: July 15, 2013, 06:32:27 AM »
ah yeah will give a steel crucible a go for my first run i guess.. For source of aluminium i got transmission casings, like old oldsmobile and chevrolet casings that are cracked and banged up.. And well toyota engine blocks a bunch...  =)
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Offline vtsteam

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Re: Buying Crucibles and other what nots.
« Reply #11 on: July 15, 2013, 06:33:50 AM »
I don't know anything about this place, but they appear to have fire clay, Bensonite, and even sodium silicate. You can go very far with the first two.

http://www.scarva.com/Categories.aspx?CategoryID=85

Use talcum powder for mold release (the real talc kind, not, the corn starch type.)
I love it when a Plan B comes together!
Steve
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Offline vtsteam

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Re: Buying Crucibles and other what nots.
« Reply #12 on: July 15, 2013, 06:37:28 AM »
Quote
ah yeah will give a steel crucible a go for my first run i guess.

Well all of this was cast in an iron plumber's pot. I've never used much else in eleven years of casting aluminum:

http://madmodder.net/index.php/topic,8191.0.html
I love it when a Plan B comes together!
Steve
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sDubB0-REg

Offline NeoTech

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Re: Buying Crucibles and other what nots.
« Reply #13 on: July 15, 2013, 01:19:40 PM »
I have these, 100mm in diameter 10mm thick walled steel tube.. they are about 20centimeters high..
Would that work for crucible or is the wall to thick? I guess i could put them in the lathe and take some meat out of em.. Its some welding practice tubes i got from the scrappy that i was gonna use to make rollers intially.. but i made the rollers out of aluminium stock instead..  :scratch:
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Offline vtsteam

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Re: Buying Crucibles and other what nots.
« Reply #14 on: July 15, 2013, 02:39:34 PM »
How big do you want to cast is the main question NeoTech?
And also how big a furnace will you build?

I would say that for starting out, pours of under 2 kilos (5lbs) are plenty, and less is better.  Remember, Aluminum takes up about 3 times the volume of brass or steel, so that's about a 6 kilo size pour in those other metals.

Thick walls are good to have unless it's hard to pour because of the weight.

I'd say make yourself one of those from your pipe about 125mm deep, and see how it feels loaded with a kilo and a half of sand on the end of a 70 cm set of tongs.

I don't think you need to turn it down on the lathe. It will waste away some on the outside with progressive melts. Eyeball it and see if it looks and feels right to you.

To break up your scrap bell housings, put them on a wood fire until at a "black heat" (not melted, but hot) and when hot crack them up with a big hammer. Wear face and skin protection because pieces will fly sometimes when you break it up. Take it easy and keep safe. Tap forcibly instead of smash stuff.

Then you can fit pieces in your crucible.

Get David Gingery's book on the charcoal furnace. It's a must read, I think.


Oh, one other very important thing -- make sure you are working with aluminum if using car parts, NOT magnesium.

Before heating a car part in any way, take a small sliver of the material and try to light it with a torch. If it burns bright white, it's magnesium.

I rarely see this mentioned.


Aluminum bell housings will make good castings. There will be a lot of spongy dross, but a lot of good metal, too. The dross protects the melt. Don't skim until ready to pour. I use a stainless steel serving spoon for skimming. Also a 6mm steel rod is very handy to have. When you can dip it into the melt and it comes up relatively clean with a shiny point instead of all glommed up with a ball of aluminum, the melt is ready to pour.





I love it when a Plan B comes together!
Steve
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sDubB0-REg

Offline awemawson

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Re: Buying Crucibles and other what nots.
« Reply #15 on: July 15, 2013, 03:26:35 PM »
I did have a magnesium fire at my last place when I had my furnace set up. All was going well, I poured some 1" diameter piston moulds for a friend who was building a V12, came to scrape out the glowing crucible and off it went. Obviously a high magnesium alloy rather than pure. I just covered the crucible in dry sand and left it to sing to itself for an hour or so then came back and finished cleaning up.

I expect that the extra supply of oxygen was what did it - I never had any of the moulds burn up, but they would have a very limited oxygen supply in the cavity.

Source metal was alloy pistons from a large commercial diesel engine.

Andrew Mawson
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Offline NeoTech

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Re: Buying Crucibles and other what nots.
« Reply #16 on: July 15, 2013, 04:14:21 PM »
My furnace i made this weekend out of an old 25l Hydrophone is, 180mm wide and 220mm deep. And lined with about 10cm of brick and 1100C fire "proof" mortar..  Im gonna tinker together  burner.. (basicly copy what you did there)..

But thanks i make a crucible from one of the pipe.. i have no problem lifting heavy objects up and around 70-80kgs, so imagine a crucible with about 2-3kg of material shouldnt be much of a problem.. But will do that sand test, sounds sensible.   =)

thanks alot! =)
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Offline vtsteam

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Re: Buying Crucibles and other what nots.
« Reply #17 on: July 15, 2013, 10:05:23 PM »
I did have a magnesium fire at my last place when I had my furnace set up. All was going well, I poured some 1" diameter piston moulds for a friend who was building a V12, came to scrape out the glowing crucible and off it went. Obviously a high magnesium alloy rather than pure. I just covered the crucible in dry sand and left it to sing to itself for an hour or so then came back and finished cleaning up.

I expect that the extra supply of oxygen was what did it - I never had any of the moulds burn up, but they would have a very limited oxygen supply in the cavity.

Source metal was alloy pistons from a large commercial diesel engine.

Yikes! Well you did the right thing and had the space where it wasn't a big problem so all in a days work, I guess. Must have been a surprise!

Diesel pistons of magnesium alloy. That's a new one on me. Melted plenty of pistons -- But I believe it. Somebody gave me an old VW Beetle block (cracked) which turned out to be magnesium. Still have it.

Haven't had a magnesium fire yet, except for test shavings. Don't want one either.

How did the little V-12 turn out?
I love it when a Plan B comes together!
Steve
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sDubB0-REg

Offline NeoTech

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Re: Buying Crucibles and other what nots.
« Reply #18 on: August 03, 2013, 07:52:15 AM »


So i imagine my small furnace will prob having no problem with aluminium. This during the suggested "burn-in" with just charcoal and a shop vac.  Thats the max of the ir temperature thingy as well ..
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Offline vtsteam

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Re: Buying Crucibles and other what nots.
« Reply #19 on: August 03, 2013, 10:34:45 AM »
You're on your way Neotech! Aluminum melts very well in a small charcoal (store bought briquette) furnace. When I got my method down while building the Gingery lathe I used to figure on a 20 minute melt for 2-3 pounds of aluminum. It had an 8" bore.  And because of all the carbon monoxide (please run it outdoors, always) the aluminum had minimal dross.

First ones take a little longer to melt, but it pretty quickly becomes routine. A large stainless steel kitchen spoon is ideal for removing dross before the pour, and a 1/4" steel rod poker comes in handy for a million different things. Don't stir the aluminum or you will create more dross and hydrogen porosity. Leave the dross (and bits of charcoal) on the melt until just before pouring. They protect thee melt. But do push pieces of unmelted aluminum down into the melt with the poker. A quick dip with it will also tell you if things are completely melted, and if it comes out thin and clean its time to pour. If thick and crusty, too cold.

Well with your thermometer you probably will have a very accurate means of judging anyway. I just had a poker. Good luck.
I love it when a Plan B comes together!
Steve
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Offline NeoTech

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Re: Buying Crucibles and other what nots.
« Reply #20 on: August 03, 2013, 10:43:50 AM »
Ah after clearing the briquettes out.. This was the dry run per your suggestion the loose bits of cement that got loose and loose sand in the furnace glassed together formed funny small melted pieces..  The brigquettes selfdestructed and went into a powered state when i passed what my thermometer could read.

But you suggest leaving the dross in the crucible? All the vids i have seen (mostly myfordboy vids) he stirrs the melt with a small package of table salt and then skim the dross off the top. I figure i could just leave it but not seen anyone do it actyally.. i thougt of welding a small piece of steel to my crucible and make a small opening so it would act as a gate and let me pour more controlled - and leave the crap inside the crucible.

I need to get hold of som protection gear though.. melting metals in shorts and sneakers isnt optimal.. But i think some kind of leather protectors will be needed i have a pair of foundry glows i use as welding glows actually. *cause the cover most of the arm* ;)
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Offline vtsteam

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Re: Buying Crucibles and other what nots.
« Reply #21 on: August 03, 2013, 11:49:27 AM »
But you suggest leaving the dross in the crucible? All the vids i have seen (mostly myfordboy vids) he stirrs the melt with a small package of table salt and then skim the dross off the top.

I have never used a flux with aluminum. The dross is easily skimmed off the top, so why would I want it? It isn't like iron where you have massive slag. And the reason you leave it on the top until just before pouring, when you skim, is so you don't produce more dross. It protects the molten aluminum underneath from oxygen and moisture in the atmosphere. Hot charcoal helps, too because it is hungry for oxygen and other contaminants that would otherwise go into the aluminum.

Moisture in the air produces hydrogen bubbles in aluminum -- they are usually tiny, but when they are, they are present throughout the casting. Some people also add nasty chlorine compounds to aluminum to get rid of hydrogen bubbles. I don't. Stirring is the greatest cause of moisture absorption from the air, hydrogen bubbles and aluminum oxidation.

People debate this point all the time -- so whatever is fun and works for you will be the thing you like the best.
I love it when a Plan B comes together!
Steve
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sDubB0-REg

Offline NeoTech

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Re: Buying Crucibles and other what nots.
« Reply #22 on: August 03, 2013, 01:15:20 PM »
I think i will try both approaches.. making flux tablets of those salts needed isnt that big of a deal just a crap to deal with the chemistry set when you wanna melt metal. ;D
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Offline Ashlyn Katarzyna

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Re: Buying Crucibles and other what nots.
« Reply #23 on: September 22, 2013, 11:24:30 PM »
I've looked around locally and cannot get 4-6" dia steel rounds to use as crucibles.  I thought about galvanized steel conduit but its pretty thin wall and doesn't take much to melt as I've already melted my air blast tube in the first firing of the furnace lid in a pit fire.  The only thing that I have is 7" dia x 1/4" wall steel pipe. i'd have to cut out a plate of steel for a bottom and weld it on.  Pretty thick wall for a charcoal furnace.  Any other ideas before I find some square tubing to use?

Offline vtsteam

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Re: Buying Crucibles and other what nots.
« Reply #24 on: September 23, 2013, 08:13:59 AM »
4 inch steel rounds? Are you talking about pipe, I hope?

7" crucible, melting conduit, etc: what kind of charcoal furnace is this?
I love it when a Plan B comes together!
Steve
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sDubB0-REg