Author Topic: Green Twin Oscillator Cast/Build  (Read 24609 times)

MetalCaster

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Re: Green Twin Oscillator Cast/Build
« Reply #25 on: July 27, 2013, 07:04:38 PM »
And did I mention that if you get too excited and open your petrobond-rammed flask too soon after pouring cast iron, the cloud of smoke that is generated will burst into flames and singe off most of your eyebrows (the excitement was suppose to be over, so no face mask).

Well, it will.
Lesson learned.

MetalCaster

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Re: Green Twin Oscillator Cast/Build
« Reply #26 on: July 27, 2013, 10:11:51 PM »
So far, my gating and risering have been rather crude, and as someone mentioned, you don't need a very sophisticated gate and riser system for models, but I do have some larger castings in mind, as well as some match plate work I want to do, so it is important for me to try and understand how to get a functioning system.

I heard from one casting kit guy who had his match plate sent back to him from the factory because it would not pour right, and he had to rework the runners on his match plate and send it back to the factory a second time.

I have studied the Navy Foundry Manual, the Gates and Risering book, and several other old casting books.

The methods are as varied as species of dogs, but what I am after is a relatively simple gate and risering system that serves the intended purpose, ie: prevent air aspiration in the sprue, reduce turbulence to a minimum using a sprue basin and tapered runners (too much turbulence and pouring too fast can entrain air in the melt), provide a dead end to trap lose sand, tapered gates above the runner to provide a maximum of slag skimming, provide equal pressure at each gate by varying the size of the runner (if necessary for larger castings), provide risers where required for shrinkage control, install gates located at the largest part of the casting, if necessary usee some form of solidification control like a cold shunt, or at least be aware of potential solidification problems which can crack your casting in half, and venting the air and if using water-based sand, steam from the core and mould.

Here is what I have so far for a disk shape such as a flywheel.
Have not tried it yet, but am working in that direction.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2013, 04:14:01 PM by MetalCaster »

MetalCaster

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Re: Green Twin Oscillator Cast/Build
« Reply #27 on: July 27, 2013, 10:20:03 PM »
They have mould-filling computer simulation programs now which allow simulation of various mould, gate and risering configurations.

While I don't need the program, it is important for me to be able to visualize metal flow, temperature gradients etc. so at least I can think in terms of what is happening in the mould.



The video mentions that if you try and fill a mould too fast, the air and or steam may not have time to escape, and also filling the mould too fast can cause too much turbulence, and entrain air.

And this video is amusing, since this is the mistake I made, no weights on top the flask.
And it is hilarious, some guy asks "what kind of sand is that?".  The guy answers "petrobond", but it is just a simulation, there isn't any real sand.  Its just pixels on a computer screen.   :lol:

« Last Edit: July 27, 2013, 11:13:26 PM by MetalCaster »

Offline Jasonb

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Re: Green Twin Oscillator Cast/Build
« Reply #28 on: July 28, 2013, 02:38:08 AM »
Good to see you back on this one Pat, look forward to seing some more progress now we are upto date.

J

MetalCaster

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Re: Green Twin Oscillator Cast/Build
« Reply #29 on: July 28, 2013, 12:12:09 PM »
Thanks Jason-

It is time to do some more castings.

Pat J

Edit:  This engine really does not seem to draw much interest here.  Maybe its all been seen before, or too long winded, or just no interest in steam, not sure.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2013, 02:48:42 PM by MetalCaster »

Offline dvbydt

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Re: Green Twin Oscillator Cast/Build
« Reply #30 on: July 28, 2013, 02:41:56 PM »
Good luck with this project, I envy your ability to think BIG. That same engine inspired my little engine that I detailed here:-
http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/f31/twin-d-oscillator-12744/

Ian

MetalCaster

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Re: Green Twin Oscillator Cast/Build
« Reply #31 on: July 28, 2013, 02:52:13 PM »
Thanks Ian-

Your build looks great, nice engine.

My wife complains sometimes that I have to do everything on a big scale, but for me big is a 12 foot flywheel.

I have had serious conversation with my buddy and co-contributor on this engine about building it full size with a 12" dia. flywheel.

But I need to get this 1/2 size one done first.
Crawl before you walk, walk before you run, as they say.

Offline NickG

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Re: Green Twin Oscillator Cast/Build
« Reply #32 on: July 28, 2013, 02:59:56 PM »
Pat that looks a nice design of oscillator. Well done on the casting it is looking good, bet it was some moment when it started to melt! is it usually the case that you need so much fuel to carry out these melts?
Location: County Durham (North East England)

MetalCaster

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Re: Green Twin Oscillator Cast/Build
« Reply #33 on: July 28, 2013, 03:07:05 PM »
Thanks Nick-

I was really beginning to wonder if I would ever get iron to melt.
It can be a bit of a trick if you don't know what you are doing, and at the time I definitely did not know how to adjust that burner.

It was a Hallelujah moment for sure.
I could envision the clouds parting, and the sun rising majestically, the sound of the angels singing the chorus waifing town from the heavens;  sort of hard to describe the feeling; I had dreamed melting iron for years, but really did not think I would be able to pull it off, and had been told by more than a few to not even attempt it, it was too dangerous.

It was sort of like this (at least in my head anyway):


Well it is dangerous, but that's life I guess.  If you do the research, and study the dangers, and take the necessary precautions, and you have a technical flair, you will be fine.  If not, you may have trouble.

Offline dvbydt

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Re: Green Twin Oscillator Cast/Build
« Reply #34 on: July 28, 2013, 03:10:05 PM »
I will be following your big build with great interest.
My Dad served his apprenticeship as a Millwright on Clydeside, shipbuilding. The spanners to tighten the nuts on the boiler stays were 6ft. long!

Ian

Offline NickG

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Re: Green Twin Oscillator Cast/Build
« Reply #35 on: July 28, 2013, 03:34:14 PM »
Great stuff. The only time i've cast anything was for a couple of simple loco parts. I made the pattern myself and my dad used to work in a school as a design technology teacher so we went in and used the crucible he gad in his classroom! We only cast in aluminium though and i was surprised how much heat even that needed - nothing compared to iron i guess. He said he bought some bronze or gunmetal to try once but it wouldn't get hot enough!
Location: County Durham (North East England)

MetalCaster

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Re: Green Twin Oscillator Cast/Build
« Reply #36 on: July 28, 2013, 03:38:48 PM »
Sorry to interrupt, what size of delevan nozzle did you use ?

Mike

PS Good stuff !

Feel free to interrupt at any time.
I post this stuff on here for others to see and comment on.
Any/all feedback/comments are more than welcome at any time from anyone, and much appreciated.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2013, 06:44:41 PM by MetalCaster »

MetalCaster

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Re: Green Twin Oscillator Cast/Build
« Reply #37 on: July 28, 2013, 04:25:34 PM »
Great stuff. The only time i've cast anything was for a couple of simple loco parts. I made the pattern myself and my dad used to work in a school as a design technology teacher so we went in and used the crucible he gad in his classroom! We only cast in aluminium though and i was surprised how much heat even that needed - nothing compared to iron i guess. He said he bought some bronze or gunmetal to try once but it wouldn't get hot enough!

Thanks Nick-

Glad to see the interest.
In the old days, it seems like almost everyone had shop classes.
I never got to take shop classes in high school, it was considered beneath those people who ran the school.
When I went to college, I took a number of shop classes in metal working, woodworking, welding, etc., and those were the most interesting classes I ever took, but they did not have metal casting.
It is a shame they don't teach more of that sort of thing.
People don't like to get their hands dirty.

We did get to take a school tour of the International Harvester foundry which was still in business in this area at the time (1978), and I vaguely recall a huge process with tons of green sand, and iron flowing out of giant ladels.  I wish I had known more about what I was looking at during that visit, I would have learned more.  I do recall that one item they manufactured was the front axle for a large truck, and I presume it was made from maleable iron.

Melting iron is really quite easy, but you really need a good setup, high temperature refractory, iron-rated crucibles, a stable burner calibrated for the correct btu input into the furnace size that you are using, etc., and it can be rather tricky to discover that information online or anywhere else.

Pat J

Offline tom osselton

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Re: Green Twin Oscillator Cast/Build
« Reply #38 on: July 28, 2013, 07:00:44 PM »
I wouldn't worry about interest a lot are lurkers including myself. Still gathering equipment to set up a home shop and gathering knowlege for builds and machining operations. I am at that point now where I have to get on with it I have the machines and am starting to build a furnace using a beer keg and fiber blanket like Ironman's video. I have cast aluminum back in school one time shot for some handles, Im 60 now lol my son has been bitten by it he has completed his 1st year training at sait and had his teacher help him cast some pillars for my dad'engine build so he is eager to get into casting.

Tom

MetalCaster

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Re: Green Twin Oscillator Cast/Build
« Reply #39 on: July 28, 2013, 07:59:01 PM »
Tom-

I guess everyone likes attention, myself included.
Sometimes I wonder if there is anyone out there in model engine land, but then I am the king of lurkers too, so what can I say.

And speaking of kings, ironman is the king of cast iron, but I think there are a few here and elsewhere that perhaps can start the journey he has been on for 20 years, and perhaps rival some of his work.
I know Rob Wilson has done some iron a while back (perhaps more recently), and is actively involved in a cupolet build, which is capable of making bucketsful of molten iron fast.

It is easy to get bitten by the casting bug, that is for sure.
I have found few things as addictive as pouring molten metal.  Be cautious with the fumes though, you can't necessarily see them, but they can cause some serious damage.

Keep us informed of your engine building and casting progress.

Pat J

MetalCaster

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Re: Green Twin Oscillator Cast/Build
« Reply #40 on: August 05, 2013, 11:20:21 PM »
Layout out the runners and gates for most of the parts for the green twin.

Offline NickG

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Re: Green Twin Oscillator Cast/Build
« Reply #41 on: August 06, 2013, 03:32:47 AM »
Looks good!
Location: County Durham (North East England)

MetalCaster

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Re: Green Twin Oscillator Cast/Build
« Reply #42 on: August 06, 2013, 12:26:33 PM »
Thanks Nick-

I am working on the core boxes for the cylinder support and the ports and passages in the cylinder.
I want cored ports and passages for this engine if I can make some that are that small.

The passages will be similar to those shown below, but I think I will reverse the sweep in the passage below the port from covex to concave.

I am going to attempt at least one of this engine in all cast iron.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2013, 01:07:32 PM by MetalCaster »

Offline doubleboost

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Re: Green Twin Oscillator Cast/Build
« Reply #43 on: August 06, 2013, 04:26:59 PM »
This is going to be good
Nice drawings looking forward to the patterns & cores
John

MetalCaster

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Re: Green Twin Oscillator Cast/Build
« Reply #44 on: August 07, 2013, 11:21:07 AM »
Thanks John.

Here is the core box I came up with for the passages/ports, made from scraps of brass, bronze and copper.

It needs a little refinement, but I did have some success with it.

Using a very fine sand and sodium silicate/CO2.

Offline NickG

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Re: Green Twin Oscillator Cast/Build
« Reply #45 on: August 07, 2013, 12:17:40 PM »
Wow will be really impressive if you can cast the ports in, will require less machining.
Location: County Durham (North East England)

MetalCaster

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Re: Green Twin Oscillator Cast/Build
« Reply #46 on: August 07, 2013, 03:31:54 PM »
I hope I can pull off the cast passages.
We shall see.

I got into castings because I was tired of the brute force method of machining engines from solid bar stock.
My patience is not so good as far as machining, and so my thoughts were that it is easier to make and machine patterns, and then I can hopefully subtract most of the tedious metal machining work out of the mix.

And I have often not been satisfied with the casting quality of others, and I prefer cast iron parts.
Sometimes the high quality casting kits are more than I want to pay.

I made the core box and core today for the bore.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2013, 04:03:13 PM by MetalCaster »

Offline doubleboost

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Re: Green Twin Oscillator Cast/Build
« Reply #47 on: August 07, 2013, 05:04:51 PM »
This looks good
Nice bit of wood working  :bugeye: :bugeye: :bugeye:
John

MetalCaster

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Re: Green Twin Oscillator Cast/Build
« Reply #48 on: August 07, 2013, 06:40:43 PM »
Thanks John. luckily the metalworking skills I have learned in the last few years translate well to wood.

I use the same bits, machines, etc.

I added core prints to allow the passages to be glued into the bore core with furnace cement.

Slowly coming together on the coreboxes.
I need to grind on that passage corebox a bit to get a consistent thickness passage.

One more corebox to make for the outer support.


Offline Meldonmech

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Re: Green Twin Oscillator Cast/Build
« Reply #49 on: August 08, 2013, 03:47:09 AM »
Hi Pat,
           An interesting project, but a lot of your thumb nail pics need resizing anything over 800x 600 does not enlarge correctly. Check some of your larger sizes, and you will only get a part of the pic. I made the same mistake when I started posting.

                                                          Cheers  David