Author Topic: Building a Penny Pusher Arcade Game  (Read 46267 times)

Offline raynerd

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Building a Penny Pusher Arcade Game
« on: July 31, 2013, 06:55:32 PM »
Good evening,
I've just returned from a week in St Ives Cornwall, in which my wife, daughter and I had laugh wasting a few quid on a penny pusher machine on the arcade on the sea front. I fancy having a bit of fun and trying to build one as it would be a great entertainer and with a "house pot" built into these things, it'll also be a novel way of saving.

The machine I intend to make will be more or less full size with plenty of feature creep going into it along the way. I'm off for 4 weeks so that is the timescale I'll have although we have a few caravan breaks along the way.

 
Not your usual engine, machine tool or invention....but I think it passes for an acceptable madmodder thread?



Offline raynerd

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Re: Building a Penny Pusher Arcade Game
« Reply #1 on: July 31, 2013, 07:01:34 PM »
Got given a Ford Fiesta wiper motor today just after Dave had kindly offered me a 12v motor over on the windscreen wiper thread I started in the electronics sub forum. Cheers Dave, much appreciated for the effort and gesture  :beer:

Being impatient,  I went to maplin and spent £15 on a Pwm controller instead of £8 on eBay.

Problem is, I get a bad squealing with the Pwm controller!

I'm not a motor man so would appreciate any thoughts. I very rarely speak on my videos, must have felt chatty this evening...!!!





Hopefully buy some wood and start a plan for the push table tomorrow.

Online Brass_Machine

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Re: Building a Penny Pusher Arcade Game
« Reply #2 on: July 31, 2013, 08:27:14 PM »

....but I think it passes for an acceptable madmodder thread?

Anything you build qualifies  :beer:

but what is a penny pusher? I think I know but I am not sure.  :scratch:

Eric
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Offline raynerd

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Re: Building a Penny Pusher Arcade Game
« Reply #3 on: August 01, 2013, 02:07:49 AM »
One of these Eric : 

     
« Last Edit: August 01, 2013, 10:18:50 AM by dsquire »

Offline awemawson

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Re: Building a Penny Pusher Arcade Game
« Reply #4 on: August 01, 2013, 04:10:18 AM »

[/quote]

but what is a penny pusher? I think I know but I am not sure.  :scratch:

Eric
[/quote]

My wife is addicted to them ! We live 6 miles north of Hastings, and the sea front there is crammed with them - gets quite tedious as you can't drag her away. I try to avoid, but the grandchildren seem to form a good excuse for trips !
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline Bluechip

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Re: Building a Penny Pusher Arcade Game
« Reply #5 on: August 01, 2013, 04:43:37 AM »
Hi Chris
 
Been there ... the motor armature is resonating at an audio frequency (ies).
Some motors just don't like PWM  :bang:
 
Once had a Volvo truck radiator fan motor that gave no end of aggro.
 
Had to drop the PWM base freq. to 40-ish Hz, even then it was not good. Tried going up in freq. but all it did was squawk chromatic scales as you changed the revs. Amusing at first but then became irritating ...
 
Do you know the base freq. on the Maplin controller ?
 
Does it have a suppression diode on the O/P ?
 
You MIGHT try blunting the O/P by slapping a GOOD cap. across the motor, the resonating voltages can be very high, IIRC I once shut one up a bit with a 8uF motor start cap. Don't use an electrolytic, it may well have a brief and brutish life.
 
Bit of a bugger buying off-the-shelf stuff, you're more or less stuck with it.
 
Which is why I nail my own junk together.
At least if it works I can feel triumphant, or alternatively, smack it about until it does ... and if it never works, sling it under the bench and pretend it didn't happen ...  :scratch:
 
Dave
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
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Offline raynerd

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Re: Building a Penny Pusher Arcade Game
« Reply #6 on: August 01, 2013, 07:58:03 AM »
Hey Bluechip

On the spec sheet for the regulator it says edge to edge frequency: minimum 1136hz, max 1250hz, average 1200hz - nothing about a base frequency!

Any more thoughts.... What do you mean by a "good" cap?

I'd prefer to use the Pwm controls if I can.

Chris

Offline S. Heslop

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Re: Building a Penny Pusher Arcade Game
« Reply #7 on: August 01, 2013, 08:42:03 AM »
Hey this looks interesting. I've always secretly wanted to build an arcade machine similar to my hero's, Tim Hunkin, but the thing stopping me is visions of trying to goad reluctant family members into trying it out. The elaborate piggybank is a great way to give it a purpose beyond entertainment.

Offline Bluechip

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Re: Building a Penny Pusher Arcade Game
« Reply #8 on: August 01, 2013, 09:19:35 AM »
Chris
 
Pic I got from here
 
http://abertoatedemadrugada.com/2013/04/o-que-e-o-pwm.html
 
Top row,  if you imagine the pulses are right to left in time. the LH edges are all the same.
So, the frequency is F = 1/t. This is the base frequency, otherwise known as the PRF. ( Pulse Repetition Frequency ).
 
To take an easy eg. PRF is 1 kHz, if I have a pulse length of 1mS, the trailing edge of pulse 1 will be co-incident with the leading edge of pulse 2. ie. It's on all the time. 100% modulated.
 
If your doo-dah is 1.2kHz, then that is well within the audible range.
 
I do PWM with pic 16F886, and you can get a PRF of several kHz which takes ( hopefully ) most of the squawk well above audible.
 
BTW that motor is not on a desk top is it? Not got a sounding board effect have you?
I have some steppers that kick up the most hideous clatter until I pick them up ..
 
Good Cap ??
 
OK
 
If you shove a sharp edge pulse through an inductor ( your armature winding ) you will get a back e.m.f. the voltage dependent on the rate of change of current.
 
ie.  -V = L x ( di/dt )
 
Numbers ??
 
Inductance = 10mH
 
Pulse rises from 0 to 5A in 100uS
 
-V = 0.01 x ( 5 / .0001 )
 
Some 500V - ish of nasty voltage spike  ??
 
You need a cap. that is made to tolerate such nonsense ... not you average electrolytic eh ??
 
I have no idea what your motor inductance is or what the rate of change of current is either, but the effect IS there to some extent or other ...
 
The preceding stuff is from memory BTW, but I think it's right ...  :scratch:
 
Poor 'owd codger ...
 
Dave BC
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
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Offline Bluechip

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Re: Building a Penny Pusher Arcade Game
« Reply #9 on: August 01, 2013, 10:00:42 AM »
Just in case you're not really interested, and seeing as it's too damned hot in the shop ...  :thumbup:
 
Did a couple if piccys of the effect of driving a square wave current through a 22mH inductor.
 
Done on my venerable Hitachi V423 oscilloscope, vintage 1985  ( 1985 AD I might add. If it was much older it would be a fossilloscope, but I won't mention that. )
 
Using the 1kHz 0.5V pk calibration jack. which I doubt is capable of driving much in the way of amps ..
 
Shows the ringing which the choke causes, as you see they are several times the frequency of the driver pulse, so, if you make your PRF high enough, most of the junk is hopefully above audio ..
 
Dave BC
 
 
 
 
 
 
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Offline John Rudd

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Re: Building a Penny Pusher Arcade Game
« Reply #10 on: August 01, 2013, 01:20:04 PM »
Chris,

Usually an inductor that is being switched, I.e like your motor, would have a resistor and a capacitor (a snubber network to dampen the ringing) and a hi PIV diode across the motor......
taking the switching frequency to somewhere around 10Khz will eliminate the whine......If you go to Vellemans website and look up their pwm kit,look at the schematic especially around the output stage.That will explain a lot...(hopefully )
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Offline wheeltapper

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Re: Building a Penny Pusher Arcade Game
« Reply #11 on: August 01, 2013, 01:36:52 PM »
Hi
I just spent 1/2 hour trawling through the maplin website and I can't see that pwm controller that you bought.
have you got a code number or is it discontinued now?

cheers
Roy
I used to be confused, now I just don't know.

Offline Bluechip

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Re: Building a Penny Pusher Arcade Game
« Reply #12 on: August 01, 2013, 02:13:25 PM »
Hi
I just spent 1/2 hour trawling through the maplin website and I can't see that pwm controller that you bought.
have you got a code number or is it discontinued now?

cheers
Roy

 
One of these ???
 
http://www.maplin.co.uk/panel-mounted-speed-regulator-module-30310
 
Looks a bit like it. Although why they use the word 'regulator' rather than 'controller' I have no idea.
 
And knowing Maplins .. neither would they ... :lol:
 
Dave
 
 
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Offline wheeltapper

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Re: Building a Penny Pusher Arcade Game
« Reply #13 on: August 01, 2013, 02:55:11 PM »
Typical maplins  :doh:
thanks.

Roy
I used to be confused, now I just don't know.

Offline raynerd

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Re: Building a Penny Pusher Arcade Game
« Reply #14 on: August 01, 2013, 03:25:07 PM »
Bluechip - so basically, am I correct in thinking based on your information that it is the Pwm controller and its specific base frequency that is causing a frequency in the audible range?


Offline raynerd

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Re: Building a Penny Pusher Arcade Game
« Reply #15 on: August 01, 2013, 03:27:44 PM »
I'm no woodworker but £15 lighter after spending it on 18mm MDF have this together. It is took me a good few hours. I've no tool to rebate the inside of the window for Perspex - hummmm, not sure how I'm going to get plastic into this windows and make it look acceptable :-S

Mine and my daughter best efforts.


Offline John Rudd

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Re: Building a Penny Pusher Arcade Game
« Reply #16 on: August 01, 2013, 03:29:08 PM »
looking at the photo of the unit I'd say the pwm is based on 555 timer chip....yes the pwm frequency is set by the module.....

if this is the case,check to see if pins 6&2 are connected together :
There should be a cap between pins 6/2 and pin 1
 
Reducing the cap value by a factor of ten will increase the frequency ten fold......See how you go with that...
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Offline S. Heslop

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Re: Building a Penny Pusher Arcade Game
« Reply #17 on: August 01, 2013, 04:38:10 PM »
I'm no woodworker but £15 lighter after spending it on 18mm MDF have this together. It is took me a good few hours. I've no tool to rebate the inside of the window for Perspex - hummmm, not sure how I'm going to get plastic into this windows and make it look acceptable :-S

Mine and my daughter best efforts.





Something like this might work. The rails could be glued and/or screwed on. Hope it's clear.

They might also serve to strengthen those struts. MDF is a bit of an odd material and tends to sag over time when used in things like shelving.

Offline Bluechip

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Re: Building a Penny Pusher Arcade Game
« Reply #18 on: August 01, 2013, 05:23:04 PM »
Bluechip - so basically, am I correct in thinking based on your information that it is the Pwm controller and its specific base frequency that is causing a frequency in the audible range?

Chris
 
Yes errr -ish  :scratch:
 
Whether you like it or not, every mechanical device has a resonant frequency, including any bits that are in it. So, imagine we have a PWM controller running at 1kHz. Every 1mS the armature gets a kick of current producing a kick of magnetic field which interacts with the permanent magnet field and jerks it round a bit. Now we have converted electrical pulses to a mechanical vibration. If there is some bit wanting to vibrate at 250Hz it will get what it wants every 4th poke from the armature and vibrate it will. ****tering wine glasses trick etc.
 
I'm not quite sure why you are going the PWM route on a bit of kit that will run at just one speed. I would determine the DC volts required and make a linear, possibly with something like a L200 ic.
 
PWM is nice for lots of motor antics but it's not the only way.
 
Dave BC
 
 
EDIT Why do I get *****          s h a t t e r i n g                 is not a profanity AFAIK
I have a few modest talents. Knowing what I'm doing isn't one of them.

Offline wheeltapper

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Re: Building a Penny Pusher Arcade Game
« Reply #19 on: August 01, 2013, 05:29:28 PM »
Probably because sh something t sounds like sh something else t. :Doh:

Roy
I used to be confused, now I just don't know.

Offline Bluechip

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Re: Building a Penny Pusher Arcade Game
« Reply #20 on: August 01, 2013, 05:54:40 PM »
 :offtopic:
 
I don't see why ...... like most folk on here I'm fairly well corrupted anyway. I doubt if coming across 's h a t' in plain text is going to make matters much worse.
 
Anyway, if you go back a few hundred years, most of the now 'naughty' words were in common use even in Parish Records etc. etc.
 
Even including the 'F' one although it had an 'e' on the end for some reason...  :scratch:
 
 
end of  :offtopic:
 
 
Dave
 
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Offline vtsteam

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Re: Building a Penny Pusher Arcade Game
« Reply #21 on: August 01, 2013, 06:04:05 PM »
Looks good, and S.Heslop's suggestion does as well!

If your daughter invites lots of friends over for play dates, this could end up being quite profitable. I'm going to have to watch this thread closely!
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Offline John Rudd

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Re: Building a Penny Pusher Arcade Game
« Reply #22 on: August 01, 2013, 07:37:50 PM »
Looks good, and S.Heslop's suggestion does as well!

If your daughter invites lots of friends over for play dates, this could end up being quite profitable. I'm going to have to watch this thread closely!


Yeah, I can see Chris 's daughter capitalising on this project  :)
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Offline BillTodd

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Re: Building a Penny Pusher Arcade Game
« Reply #23 on: August 02, 2013, 06:32:52 AM »
I'm
Quote
not quite sure why you are going the PWM route on a bit of kit that will run at just one speed. I would determine the DC volts required and make a linear, possibly with something like a L200 ic.

Seconded.

Pwm can erase the magnets in pm motors .

If you have a variable power supply, just adjust it until the speed is as required then pick a transformer to give about same volts (when rectified)  KISS principle is best for this kind of application :-)

 
 
Bill

Offline raynerd

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Re: Building a Penny Pusher Arcade Game
« Reply #24 on: August 02, 2013, 06:38:55 AM »
Hi guys, thanks for the interest!!

I just thought pwm would give me control of the speed as I'm not sure exactly what speed will work best. Anyway, taking your advice, 9v seemed about the correct speed. Looked in my box of old supplies and to my luck 9v. 1500mA.  One of those small Chinese made supplies. Anyway, connected it up and it moves at about 1/2 RPM is there really jurky fashion!!
I must be making an obvious mistake :-(