Tangential toolholders

[Buksie]

Hi Guys

I  want to share with you how I made my tangential tool holders. I tried to keep the construction as simple as possible without compromising on rigidity and thereby avoiding chatter. It may be crude but I am very impressed with the performance of these tools, this is definitely the best time/effort investment I made to upgrade my cutting tools for my lathe.
The tool holders were made up of two pieces of 16mm mild steel square bar, the part that the HSS tool is clamped onto, the tool block if I can call it that, has both the angles for cutting clearance machined on to it and when it is welded to the square bar shaft the cutting angles will automatically be correct..
As you can see from the photo below the groove that guides the HSS cutting tool is cut at 12 degrees from the vertical axis, leaning foreward. The side clearance angle is cut on the back top of the tool block   about 10mm long and when it is clamped to the shaft for welding it will tilt the axis of the tool block by 12 degrees. I hope you understand my explanation.

[mattinker]

That's a nice solution to the two 12° angles problem!

Thanks, I'll use your idea, regards, Matthew

[vtsteam]

Buksie, thanks for opening this thread and showing your tool holders. I made a quick change version. Like yours, my tool bit is held by a screw and washer. Unfortunately it tends to slip on occasion -- particularly on an interrupted cut. Do you find that happens with yours?

[unc1esteve]

I also made a tangential tool.
Here is a link to one that has a good fastening method.
http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/f13/my-tangential-toolholder-17462/

The only problem I have is with the swarf.  It comes off in one long, continuous ribbon.
It wraps itself around everything, including my hand if I am not careful.

All of the videos of a tool in action that I have watched show the same kind of stringy swarf.

[vtsteam]

Thanks for the pix unclesteve maybe I'll try something similar.

re. swarf -- I guess that's the tradeoff for simple sharpening and dual cutting directions -- no chipbreaker. I suppose you could maybe grind a hollow in with a Dremel mounted 1/4" grindstone behind both cutting edges, but then the idea of simple sharpening is no longer an advantage. Still, if it's not a problem for you, that might break the wire swarf up.

Seems to me that this is one of those situations a carbide insert with built in chip breakers does well. In fact a diamond shaped insert mounted in a normal straight lathe tool holder might present the same face geometry as a tangential when the cutting angles and shape are similar to the tangential. Not sure of the required built-in insert shape exactly, but seems quite possible they are similar, hence a similar smooth cut.

I guess in that case the term and concept of "tangential" tool holder should really only be applied to conventional lathe tools

I might have a go at making an inserted qctp block that mimics tangential face angles. Have to think about this a little more.....

[a7abw]

Good work, Buksie .

Without taking anything away from this thread, (don't have anything close to Buksie's skill) I bought two tangential tool holders from Eccentric Engineering in Australia. The design was developed by Des Burke way back in 1985. They also use 1/4" cutting tips which fasten up very securely. All the guesswork has been taken out of sharpening the cutting tips, a very simple process using a normal work bench grinding wheel and the kit-supplied jig ... no more trying to grind different cutting angles, rakes and faces for me!

I think they're great but check out their website of the same name (.com.au) - there are some really good videos and hopefully you'll be as impressed as I was.

[Arbalist]

This is mine, works well.

[vtsteam]

I like that clamping nut a lot! Very nice job on those tools. 

ps.  there seems to be a ground surface on the face of the tool -- did you add that, as a guess, to provide a little more friction -- or is that how your lathe tools come from the supplier?

[Arbalist]

The HSS is just as it comes but that particular piece is quite old.

Another picture of the nut for info.

[vtsteam]

Very well done. 

[ddoyle]

I want one of these   to early in the game for me to be making this kinda stuff though!

[SwarfnStuff]

Hi ddoyle, Arbalist's tooling looks like the bought variety to me BUT I have been wrong before (often) 
    Anyway, these are great for those just beginning this fascinating past time. Here is the web site   http://eccentricengineering.com.au/  and if you select 'Diamond Tool Holder' on the left  there is a link to info and to their USA reseller. Bear in mind that eventually you will need to grind tooling, especially if you get into screw cutting, etc. However, I am sure you will enjoy these tools should you decide to buy or make one. They certainly make my life easier for general turning as I am a rank beginner.

[Arbalist]

Hi ddoyle, Arbalist's tooling looks like the bought variety to me BUT I have been wrong before (often

All my own work. It was the last of three that I made. This is how it started out: 



All three of them are here together with the black one that I bought from Eccentic Engineering.
I think it's the sand blasted finish that makes folks think some of my tooling is shop bought!

[ddoyle]

Hi ddoyle, Arbalist's tooling looks like the bought variety to me BUT I have been wrong before (often) 
    Anyway, these are great for those just beginning this fascinating past time. Here is the web site   http://eccentricengineering.com.au/  and if you select 'Diamond Tool Holder' on the left  there is a link to info and to their USA reseller. Bear in mind that eventually you will need to grind tooling, especially if you get into screw cutting, etc. However, I am sure you will enjoy these tools should you decide to buy or make one. They certainly make my life easier for general turning as I am a rank beginner.

Yeah, I have seen the ones on Eccentric Engineering but there are too many people making their own to spend that kind of money...not that they aren't worth it, but money saved is money earned as far as I'm concerned.   Chuck in E. TN is actually making me one this week, I just went down to his shop today and met him and he helped me a little with another project I have going.  He knows what he is doing, and he has already made himself one of these tool holders, so I was able to see it first hand.  I have already begun grinding my own HSS tools, so far only a RH tool and a boring bar, neither of which are professionally done by any matter, but both worked well enough for what I needed ;).  I am only 2 weeks into my machining experience, so, I am the ultimate definition of a newbie, but like I have stated in prior posts, it's already in my blood, and I won't let it get me down!!  Just really glad I found this forum...so many people already shown they are willing to help however they can when someone has a problem.  Anyway, thanks for the input!!!

[ddoyle]

Arbalist, if your tool holders are so good that people think they are the "bought" version, maybe you should start selling them.... In my honest opinion, I think yours looks much better than the one that you bought, Can tell you pay a lot of attention to detail.  Sleek looking tools man.

[SwarfnStuff]

 See, I said I was often wrong and was proved correct, (well. wrong again actually). Thanks for the correction Arbalist and I think that your attention to detail makes a great job of those holders. 

John B

[Manxmodder]

Arbalist, if your tool holders are so good that people think they are the "bought" version, maybe you should start selling them.... In my honest opinion, I think yours looks much better than the one that you bought, Can tell you pay a lot of attention to detail.  Sleek looking tools man.

The main feature that often distinguishes a home made tool from a mass produced item is the visual  surface finish rather than the functionality or performance of the tool in question.

Most homemade tools are often made from mild steel with a case hardening or carbon steel quench hardened and tempered but left in the raw metal finish.

Learning to apply finishes like blueing,blacking,electro plating,anodising,shot blasting,vapour blasting or etching is element that makes them difficult to distinguish from shop bought items.....OZ.

[Arbalist]

I used to use Gun Blue on some of my tools but it's not a particularly durable finish so I switched to sand blasting and then a quick wipe over with Renwax.

[Manxmodder]

Hi Arbalist, I agree the gun blue isn't very durable.
Really like your tangential tools    and I will probably make a copy of your latest version.

Also worth considering are some of the commercially applied colour coatings suitable for steel which have an appearance similar to coloured anodising.  I believe they are very durable but I haven't looked into the cost of application for small batches or single items.....OZ.

[Arbalist]

Thanks, I'm glad you like it. The main reason for making my own tool after I bought the Eccentric Engineering one was that it had to be set at a funny angle to both turn and face without moving the tool. My four way tool post locks at 90° as most do so it's just a matter of clamping my tool holder in place to both turn and face - quick and easy. As other folks have said, you can't do everything with these tools but I do most of my turning with one when I can simply because it works well, is quick to sharpen and very economical to use - important now I'm retired!

Another pic I missed out last time.



If I were to make another one I'd probably reduce the size of the step as it doesn't really need that much clearance for swarf. At least one other person has made the thickness of their tool holder such that the top of it is at centre height when clamped in the tool post. This is a really clever idea as all you need to do to set the cutter height is turn the tool upside down on a flat surface and drop the cutter down until it touches. Lock in place and away you go. This is the beauty of making your own tools to fit your Lathe/tool post.

[Manxmodder]

Like the idea of the top face being coincident with centre height.

I have a 4 way post with the auto lock feature,but I generally use my clogheel tool post more often as all my tools use a 5 mm packing for the 20mm shanks and no packing for my 25mm tools,so really quick and simple for me to set on centre height.

I also have a couple of ground steel blocks which correspond to centre height for my various boring bars....OZ.

[Arbalist]

I don't use insert tooling that much but I've actually epoxied shims of the correct thickness to a couple of my toolholders so they remain on centre height!

For other tooling I made a gauge for my Lathe:

[vtsteam]

Mine was built into a simple block style tool holder. Not very nice finish, I'm afraid.

http://madmodder.net/index.php/topic,8415.75.html