Author Topic: New metal Prices  (Read 7657 times)

Offline Darren

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New metal Prices
« on: March 18, 2009, 05:16:43 AM »
I've been looking up supplies for some metal stock as I really should start using some normal stuff.

I've notice that mild steel is about the same price as aluminium......can that be right ?

Surprised me.... :scratch:
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Offline John Rudd

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Re: New metal Prices
« Reply #1 on: July 02, 2009, 05:18:33 PM »
So at the risk of diluting this thread....

where do folk buy their materials from?


I've used M-Machine in Darlington, FES down in Kent and Macc Models in err..wherever they are...

I've also bought material at great cost from Fleabay...( never again if I can help it..)

Oh and I've bought stuff at Harrogate..

Any good suggestions bearing in mind I'm a cheapskate Northerner...
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Offline raynerd

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Re: New metal Prices
« Reply #2 on: July 02, 2009, 05:29:02 PM »
If you can make your way down to RDG tools in Mytholmroyd nr Hebden Bridge they have an excellent selection of off-cuts apparently purchased from BAE so it is good quality stuff. You buy it by the Kg and I think it is about £5.50-6.00 for both brass and ally. It is all off cuts but they have some huge lumps there right down to smaller bits, mainly round and plate, a little square bar and very little hex. I think postage smashes the price up but if you can get into the shop you will miss all that.

That being said, if you can get down to RDG tools it is WELL WELL worth a visit. I have no affiliation, just a happy customer. They use to have a place in Hebden Bridge, a little shop and now they have moved into a warehouse it is amazing. They have nearly all their stock on display in little trays across the warehouse. It is like a pick and mix for us! They also have quite a bit of shop cleared equipment as well as some big Bridgeport Mills and Myford lathes normally in stock. Well worth a drive up, it is not like you have to ask for what you want to look at - I often spend a good hour in there routing around and talking to the guys who run it. Anyone else been - have a bigged them up too much?

Chris

Offline John Hill

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Re: New metal Prices
« Reply #3 on: July 02, 2009, 05:44:30 PM »
Metal stock is a problem for me as there is very little manufacturing in this area,  I can buy silver steel and key steel from the local tool shop and I guess I can get a variety of stuff from the scrap merchant.

Earlier this week I walked past a place that installs fire sprinklers and noticed they had a nice pile of short offcuts of thick wall water pipes by the door.  I made a fuss of his albino boxer dog and he let me have all I could carry away!
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Re: New metal Prices
« Reply #4 on: July 02, 2009, 06:27:14 PM »
2 squid to 2 squid 50 per kilo at my local yard for brass and ali, plus bronze. All usually good quality offcuts, but you need to be there at the right time each week, before they send it all to the smelters. I don't mind buying larger diameter or sizes of materials and cutting it down to size, it always works out a lot cheaper than buying it from retailers.

Good quality steels (in proper racks, not offcuts), usually under 50p per kilo. I can get a good sash weight for my cast iron for about 30 to 35p, if I ask my man to save them for me when any come in.

ALL metal retail outlets are a rip off, no matter who or where they are. They charge the maximum amount they think they can get for it. I only ever use them if there is something I can't get at the scrappies, but even then, I look to see if it is cheaper to buy from the metal wholesaler. You can usually get a 13 foot length of steel for the same price as they charge for a couple of feet in a retailer, and they will cut it up for you to get it into your motor. I have just bought 80 lengths (just over 18" each one, 120 feet) of stainless small diameter rod (2.4mm) for just over 20 squid. Purely by looking for different types of suppliers, in this case, welding supplies.

Finding materials is an art form, and most of it is actually free, or if you are willing to do a bit of trading, either like for like or one off jobs not worth charging cash for. Usually just opening your mouth and asking will get people piling the stuff onto you, just to save them a trip to the local tip. Just sort it out, keep the good stuff, and do a tip run yourself when you have enough junk to get rid of.


Bogs

Offline raynerd

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Re: New metal Prices
« Reply #5 on: July 03, 2009, 03:23:00 AM »
I have started using the scrap metal merchants more often - they were really unhelpful at the start but I go once a week and over the last three months I`ve got to know the owner and he even keeps scraps aside for me now. I think he has and interest in what I do in terms of the model engines and such. He normally gives me the bits to take away for nothing but every so often I give him £5-10 depending on how much I get and one week he wouldn`t accept my money and just ask I put a couple of skip hire leaflets up at my work noticeboard. Certainly the scrappers are the cheapest!
Chris

Offline John Rudd

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Re: New metal Prices
« Reply #6 on: July 03, 2009, 04:22:33 AM »
Thanks for the heads up guys...RDG sounds like a good place to start..I feel a visit coming on..Just need an excuse to take 'er indoors' out in the car...
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Re: New metal Prices
« Reply #7 on: July 03, 2009, 07:08:23 AM »
We all seemed to have ignored Darren's initial question, so I will try to give a little info on how to go about buying metal in the correct places. Of course, this is in bulk, normally 13ft lengths. But a little more about that later.

Darren is a little isolated in where he lives, so finding a wholesale supplier locally could be a problem.

The first way is to consult your yellow pages, and search for, yes you guessed it, local wholesale metal suppliers. Get on the phone, and see if they do cash sales on a pick up basis. If they do, time to get on your bike, and see what they have to offer. They will normally chop it up for you into lengths you can handle. So pay the man, tie the metal to your bike, and away you go. While you are there, ask him if he has any offcuts. A lot of workshops may ask for lengths to be delivered in the correct size, so say they have asked for 9ft 6", that will mean, 3ft 6" left over from a 13ft length. The customer might have been charged the cost of the full length, and these offcuts can usually be picked up very cheaply, sometimes for the price of a pint. Don't ask in the office, ask the man on the shop floor if possible, the one who cuts your metal up. He is the one who will take the back hander, the office will try to charge you full price.

If no metal wholesalers are nearby, find a small machining shop within striking distance from your area. They must use a metal supplier. Take a few samples of your work along if possible, and grovel and plead that you are having trouble getting materials locally, and could they help you out, by getting what you want added to their next order. It will not cost them any more as they are having a delivery anyway, and if you can get in with a small shop owner, they might even let you have their bar ends at very reasonable prices. I used this method for most of my time in model engineering, unfortunately the small shop I dealt with finally closed down, after the owner retired. I also used to help him out. If say cutters that were too large for me to use came into my possession, I would give them to him for use in his shop. That went a very long way to keeping him sweet, and we ended up as good mates. I had full access to his whole wholesale empire, from bearing to o-rings, and it saved me a fortune over the years. Imagine up to 75% discount on bearings over normal engineering outlets.

When in work, I used to use Aalco for non ferrous supplies.

http://www.aalco.co.uk/index.html

They have a nationwide delivery service and can usually get a small order dropped off on their way to a big customer.
This was a few years ago, and don't know if they still do deliveries to private addresses, you would need to make a phone call to your nearest depot to find out if they will deal with you.

All of the above methods work, I know I have used them. You should be able to get your bulk materials at least 50% cheaper than buying from a retail outlet, most times, even cheaper.


So now back to how I do it nowadays. You will need storage areas for the scrap and junk that comes in, and to store the recycled materials.

This is how it normally comes in from good friends and contacts. This is now a depleted area, after having a couple of good sessions with my power hacksaw. All junk and scrap is gratefully accepted




This is what it turns into. Very good usable material in all shapes and sizes. Even a 1" length is not wasted, it will come in for a job one day. Whatever cannot be processed is discarded down the local tip into their metal bins.




This is what I told you about in my previous post. 120 feet of stainless rod for just over 20 squid. That works out to less than 20p per foot. From a retailer, most probably 5 times that much.




This is how I do my inside storage bins. All this lot has come from my favourite scrapyard. Maybe the wrong size or shape for doing a job, but because it is so cheap, I can machine it down to whatever size I require. Get what you can, when you can.




This is my heavy metal box. Alsorts go into here, just looking at this pic I can see a lump of titanium, an old pulley from a Myford ML2 lathe, rods off an old cot, a defunct vice that can provide some good cast iron, nothing is safe in my hands, if it can have a future use, it goes into my rollout storage boxes.




For stuff that is too large or heavy to be stored inside, goes into my outside stash. This is just a 5 foot long plastic box, and has come to the rescue of a lot of modellers over the years, supplying that elusive bit of material that is either too expensive or difficult to obtain elsewhere. You can see that there are even long lengths of copper tube, ideal for making boilers. I gave up making boilers a few years ago, but I still keep it in there, just in case someone else needs a piece.
Remember the barter system, you help me, I help you. Value doesn't come into it, give me something I need, even if it costs only a few pennies or even nothing, you can have a piece of copper pipe worth maybe a 50 squid. No skin off my back, as long as it isn't earmarked for something I want to do.



So really, if you have a little storage space, a little cheek to ask for things, and a load of good friends around you, there is no need to get involved with those expensive retail outlets.

Bogs

Offline Darren

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Re: New metal Prices
« Reply #8 on: July 03, 2009, 07:29:32 AM »
Nice Stash, that must have taken a while to collect...

Trouble I have is as you say, I'm a bit remote and there isn't much heavy industry here.

There is one place within walking distance, big place too. But they chuck all their scrap into a large square metal bin and it goes to the council refuse..... :bugeye:

Some big lumps too, sometimes brass you couldn't even carry to the car let alone home. Apparently when a contract run is finished they clear out everything to make way for new work.

I have tried to get in the door, but no-one is interested. Then I tried the council depot.....oh yeah right....those lads are on a good screw and they know it.....bog off mate is what you get....

Oh course, no metal goes there does it......

I have tried all the scrappies I can find, and there are a few, but no industry means no scrap worth having, just cars and washing machines....

I will solder on.......
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Offline raynerd

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Re: New metal Prices
« Reply #9 on: July 03, 2009, 07:48:24 AM »
Darren, regarding the no industry - no metal, that is exactly what I was experiencing but as I kept going in and asking, the more we got chatting and now he pulls it out for me. Basically, there is so little coming through that to go and on the off chance find some, it is unlikely. I just kept going and slowly as he knews I am I am going to come on the Wednesday he would start pulling bits to one side during the week. I think some places are better than other, clearly the one down near John and Stew seems like a main depot. I`d just keep going in on the same day once a week, try speaking to the same person and keep taking the "nothing in" answer - eventually you may find he can keep bits aside for you.

John Hill - RDG-tools is about 2 miles away from Hebden Bridge which is a great little village, a canal and lots of little coffee shops and it is also about 6 miles away from Haworth -  a really quaint little village, home of the Brontie sisters , cobbled road, coffee shops, antique shops... really nice place. The appeal of going to one or both of these places is the only way I get to go   :ddb:  If you do go, you need an early start on a Sat - only open 9:00 -12:30.

Chris

Offline Stilldrillin

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Re: New metal Prices
« Reply #10 on: July 03, 2009, 09:31:51 AM »
Another Dave, Mr Bluechip called in yesterday. To learn about r/tables an clocks an things rotational.  :scratch:

Look what he left behind for me!  :thumbup:



I`m looking for some shelving now........  ::)

David D

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Still drilling holes... Sometimes, in the right place!

Still modifying bits of metal... Occasionally, making an improvement!

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Re: New metal Prices
« Reply #11 on: July 03, 2009, 09:42:01 AM »
Darren,

I know it must be very frustrating for you, but as I have tried to explain, if you can afford to buy a 13 foot length, and cut it up and store it, it would be a lot cheaper than paying model engineering rates.

Even if the supplier is 30 or 40 miles away, once you get it verified that they do a cash sale and pick up service, if you are passing there any time, even months in the future, just call in and pick up some bulk buys. If you are making a journey anywhere, check in your yellow pages to see if any are on the route, and add an hour to your journey so you can call in.

Ralph called to see me earlier this week, and when we went down to the scrap yard, the cupboard was bare, they had just had a clearout. But I told him to give me fair warning when he is coming across again, and I will call in over a few days and pick him up some of the stuff he is looking for if they have it come in. I am sure I could do that for you when you next come across, as long as you don't mind getting a mixed bag of useful stuff, at very nice prices, and if I can get there before Stew.

John

Offline Darren

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Re: New metal Prices
« Reply #12 on: July 03, 2009, 11:40:43 AM »
That's how I bought my SS stock, I figured quantity was the only way to make it practical as the price dropped significantly.

Hence you see me using it often, cos I have a little bit of it......

If I'm lucky I'll be able to buy in some steel stock "before" it runs out !!!
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