Acrylic pens.... Easy Xmas gifts?

[Divided he ad]

Hi Guys, been a while 


I've been AWOL for quite a bit I know.... Summer is a very busy time for me and my workshop was pretty much neglected.

But with a new found want for cheep Xmas prezzies and a reason to get machining again I thought I'd have a go at some pen kits I purchased about 5 months ago. Here are a few stills out of the 300 or so I have already 


First the basic. I started with a generic Chinese pen kits that you can buy of e-blag etc. Added to that were some acrylic pen blanks and some wood blanks too..



The wooden ones mostly didn't go to plan.... I'm sticking to acrylic 

I made a rough and ready pen mandrel and an assortment of brass bushings (as needed to fit the kits I purchased)

 I then started by chucking up the square blanks in the 4jaw chuck. Roughly centred using the cutting tool and the corners of the blank.  ( roughly cause the blanks are far bigger than the final pen size). Drilling them with a long series 7mm drill bit with a long spiral for easy swarf clearance.

The blanks are then cut to slightly longer than required and the brass pen tubes are glued in using a 5min epoxy clear resin.





The resin sets to a glass like hardness quite quickly and was easier to remove any overspill that dripped into the tubes after 2 mins ish, while it was still elastic.

I squared off the blanks to the tube ends and then mounted them on the mandrel with the bit to become the tip of the pen to the left (just the way I did it)  then a spacer bushing then the other blank, a spacer bushing and then a nut to hold it all there tight for turning.

First pen was an experiment and was made to basic "just turn it all down and press it together" spec.










With that under my belt I started getting a little adventurous..... 








And more adventurous....










I ran into a but of a niggle with squaring the blanks off after gluing.  I had changed the chucks back over to use the mandrel and found it annoying changing back to the the 4 jaw in order to square the blanks.
So I made a little rough and ready arbour ( I was rushing to make more pens so no slitting saw was employed... Rough but functional)

First, I turned the mandrel/arbour to size (6.3mm - 1/4")  Then I turned away the centre section to make it easier to mount the blanks. Drilled and tapped using only the starter tap to make a tapered thread inside the tip.



As said, Rough and ready... Terrible hacksaw cross cut      Screwing in a grub screw forces the 4 sections apart due to the tapered thread created using only the tip of the number 1 tap.



I can now mount blanks quickly in the 3 jaw and square them off.




This is my first week or so's efforts... I have 20+ done now! All sorts of different sized and types are starting to enter the collection. Some would say I'm becoming obsessed 






That's all for now.... I may post some pic's of the others when I get around to transferring them from my phone





Ralph.



Oh, BTW  I'm using the super sharp carbide inserts for aluminium to do the turning. Razor sharp and cuts this stuff like butter 

[millwright]

I can see those being very popular Ralph, was expecting them to light up as well. whats the best way to get tthe machining marks out of acrylic, Ive used  fine scotchbrite pads soaked in WD40 followed by a soft cloth and WD. it can be slow though depending on the surface finish. A Nice looking job well done 
John

[AussieJimG]

Great idea and very timely. Might even have time before (this) Xmas.

And good tutorial - I needed that.

Jim

[mattinker]

I've used Brasso  or Mirror metal polish with good results on perspex. It's actually a very fine abrasive paste. Could be used on scotch bright and then with a rag.

Regards, Matthew

[DaveH]

Very nice Ralph,  .
I am however deeply hurt " How to hold square bar in a 3 jaw Chuck"  Here is another way    http://madmodder.net/index.php/topic,6581.msg70137.html#msg70137

I did that post specially for you Ralph ........... I just knew you were going to do some pens ........... one day 
 
DaveH

[wongster]

Another job well done!!!

Do you just play with the dial on the cross slide to to create the curves?

Wong

[Brass_Machine]

Hiya Ralph!!

Glad to see you pop in!  That is a great idea for a gift. I have thought about your key ring torch too (Along with the GID fob) as gifts. You have some good ideas and a good eye.

Eric

[Divided he ad]

Hi Guys, Glad you like them 

I'll try and answer these best I can without pic's to back it up.... I haven't taken any action shots or videos yet.


John,
After stepping out the basic shape I use files where possible to remove the bulk of the material. then step down through grades of emery tape and wet and dry (all dipped in water... Keeps the heat down and stops you burning the acrylic) from 100, 280,400and 600 grits.

Then again with the 600 with some brass polish added to the water. Then final cutting using this "micromesh" stuff in 3600, 8000 and finally 12000 grits. All wet and with a few dots of the brass polish added.

Remove residue between grits with a soft cloth and use a clean soft cloth for a final buff. Not sure if this is a prescribed method. But it works for me.

(Of course making sure the lathe bed is very well oiled before and after due to the use of water)


Jim,
 Give it a go.... Just remember razor sharp tooling and easy cuts (1-2mm)  I tried a larger cut under power and stopped the lathe... .Just before a huge chunk flew off and clacked me under the chin     I'll find the pic's to show the screw up and the recovery job!



Matthew,
Sounds similar to my methods... These brass polishes work on all metals and plastics it seams. Does stainless a treat 



Dave,
I remember this method. But there is an issue with these blanks. They are far from uniform! Some "16mm" square blanks are 16x18mm! The same issue with the 20mm ones. So 4 jaw is the only way to get reasonably accurate centre holes.

Nice post though 



Wong,
Yep. Just playing with the dials. I use the main carriage and cross slide wheels (rarely use the compound myself).

Some of the cuts are done with a powerd cut in the Z axis and turning the cross slide handwheel  five, one quarter turns in and 5 back out. Some times slow count some times fast. Some times a much higher count. it gives me some interesting stepped curves to smooth out 

Howdy Eric   

Figured it was about time I joined in again   
I needed a new Xmas gift idea.... Any more keyrings (fobs) and my family and friends would start developing funny walks with all that brass in their pockets! 
No idea what to do next year though!! 




I'll post some more pic's tomorrow of the "incident"  described above and some of the new (jumbo) editions I have recently completed.







Ralph.

[vtsteam]

Those are pretty wild, Ralph! Thanks for explaining how you did that profiling and polishing. I'd never heard of 12000 grit before. Lots new to learn. 

[Pete49]

VT the micro mesh is usually found at places that sell pen parts or woodwork stores. For those that have wives with Avon products snaffle their cattle dog and look under nail stuff (her terminology) nice gear there and been using it for years on wood and acrylic pens.
As for acrylic I don't use it much now as there are many available in shops and I prefer the wide variety of woods available world wide at reasonable costs. Fruit woods are nice as well as some of our native trees which lose a limb now and again (pruning saw is handy). I have also found the fumes to be harmful from acrylic blanks....it sets of my wife's asthma every time.
Pete

[Divided he ad]

Evening folks,

As promised I've got a few pic's of the "incident"

I was making the second of the Jumbo pencil kits I purchased and got a little excited and put a cut at a higher feed than should have... It  simply was too much for the lathe to take.

Started off with this...



And rapidly turned into this....



This simply would not do!
I had seen some "deluxe" versions of these with chromed domed tops. I had no chromed domes so Stainless steel would have to do...

I cleaned up the breakage.


Made a cap like this one.


Saved 


This is now my finishing method for the cheaper pencil kits. I have made a deluxe version Chrome dome with a clip)  and a "mini" gold plated version of these too, it's 10mm shorter in length and has a 3mm lead instead or a 5.8mm lead.



My pencils so far...



Oh and showing off a few more pens While I'm at it...   

A teachers pen - red one end black the other.


And some stubby pens...








 
If anyone else makes pens could you post a few pics?



Ralph.

[AussieJimG]

Flash as a rat with a gold tooth!

Jim

[Brass_Machine]

I am seriously considering doing this in about 4 weeks. Would make great gifts for co-workers.

[Pete49]

OK here are a few from my collection. The only 2 acrylic are the bright yellow and the bright blue pens. The blue is made from cut offs and a piece of stone which are also the other grey pens. The stone (from West Aust) I can't remember the name of it but its softish   . All the rest are timber, mostly Australian wood with a piece ebony (black pen) cocobolo and amboyna thrown in.
The roller ball and fountain pen set is Tasmanian blackheart sassafras.  The reddish orange is a desert timber from the NT called conkaberry. Anyhoo enough dribbling I'll let the pics say it for me.
Pete

[Divided he ad]

That's some very nice looking pens there Pete   

Stone sounds interesting! I'd have thought you'd need carbide or diamond tipped tooling for stone.
Looks like it polishes up really well though 

Do you turn these on a wood lathe?

You have some of the more expensive kits there and interesting colours of wood.......  Not that I could tell you which is what colour! But I can see they are different and have nice patterns in them.

Are the kits expensive over there? Some cost a fortune here!






Thanks for posting the pic's.


Ralph.

[DaveH]

Ralph,

I wouldn't mind having a go at this. I think I will stick to acrylic to start with.
When you say kits - what do I get in a kit, or more importantly what should I get in a kit.
 
DaveH

[Pete49]

Thanks for the compliment Ralph. I'll see if I can find the name of the stone. Here's a link to one of the suppliers I use and the prices.
http://www.cws.au.com/..... DaveH follow the link and you can see what's in the kits, some more than others.....basically 2 tubes, the ends and clip and a refill. There are also plenty places in the States that supply some really exotic blanks and parts like laser cut piano keyboard blanks,flags, snake and cane toad skins even a circuit board pen blank. Some pen turners even use metal to make some great looking pens.
I have even made a pens from 308 cartridges from the target crowd. Nearly all my pens are made on a mini wood lathe similar to the jet mini but I have used the metal lathe on some like the brass pen I made for a friend . Imagination is good
Pete

[Divided he ad]

"Imagination is good "  indeed it is Pete   


 Exactly as Pete says Dave. The kits are available from a lot of places. I spent hours searching out the sites with the best value for money.  Also shown in the 6th picture down in the first post.

I get some pens from one site and pencils from another etc.... The difference can be over a pound per kit! this means you could almost get 2 for 1 by shopping right!

Pete, I went to have a look through the site.... On comparison using a currency converter it's quite expensive over there! Eg, workshop pencils on there 6.80GBP here 4.50GBP.

It does have more things available that some of my sites though.... I must search more 

Thought I might have a go at a metal pencil..... But it'd be one for me. Thinking a heavy pencil for the workshop? Too many others to do first though 




Good luck with your projects Dave. Just do what feels right I say 





Ralph. 

[Deko]

Hi Folks,
             I was lucky enough to hold a few of Ralph's pens a few weeks ago, and I can tell you they are

really great.  We are due to start making some at "men in sheds" on Monday and I can only hope that

they come out as good as Ralph's.

Cheers Dek 

P.S.  looks like you made it home OK Ralph. Hope the repairs were not TOO expensive !!!!!

[DaveH]

Thank you  Pete and Ralph 

I will have a good look around.
 
DaveH

[Divided he ad]

Hi Dek,

Yeah, overheated at Oulton park and finally found the leak   

Quick roadside repair, got home and ordered new parts..... Just waiting for the after effects to show themselves!



Good luck with the pens on Monday 






Ralph.

[Pete49]

yep Ralph we get ripped a lot but then our wages are high according to some. Mine workers get around $100k a year in the lower grades and a friends son was getting 5k a week as a tradie but things are slowing down poor bugger is only on 3k week now. This is for 12hrs on 12hrs off 2 weeks straight 1 week day shift 1 week nights then 5 days off. Also get ripped of by importers because of our low population. In some ways I would like to live in the northern but I like the weather here very rare to get 13 degree winter days where I live though summer temps regularly hit 40C and above and I don't like crowds so I guess I'm stuck here
The stone stuff is cut with HSS lathe tools and don't blunt them much at all.  YAY found it  It is a form of talc called steatite.
Pete

[ddoyle]

OH GOD!!!! Not another hobby for me..... LOL...these are absolutely amazing.

[Divided he ad]

Hi,

Happy you like them   

Oddly I've spent the last 3 hours scouring websites for more kits and blanks at the best prices.... only found 297 pounds worth of bits I want 

Better get the ones I have made up and swapped for spendy tokens rapid..... Need funds to sport my habit 



Fun and quite quick to make though 





Ralph.

[ddoyle]

I haven't made one yet...but I have a couple kits on the way....Hoping for the best....but not expecting it .  What do you use for finish on your wooden pens?

[Divided he ad]

Don't really do wooden ones.... It splinters and shatters in my experience! Probably cause I use a metal lathe?


The two I have made, one was finished with bees wax. The other was a stabilised buck eye burl.

Meaning it was resin impregnated and baked till the resin set. Makes the thing much easier to turn and polish using my metal lathe.


I use emery tape in lowering grits on all the ones I polish. The wood stopped at 400 grit for me. The stabilised one and acrylics all go right through to 1200 grit wet n dry.

Then a couple of runs with micro mesh to 12000 grit!! 


Lots of videos on you tub with hundreds of different techniques to see 





Ralph.

[ddoyle]

Don't really do wooden ones.... It splinters and shatters in my experience! Probably cause I use a metal lathe?


The two I have made, one was finished with bees wax. The other was a stabilised buck eye burl.

Meaning it was resin impregnated and baked till the resin set. Makes the thing much easier to turn and polish using my metal lathe.


I use emery tape in lowering grits on all the ones I polish. The wood stopped at 400 grit for me. The stabilised one and acrylics all go right through to 1200 grit wet n dry.

Then a couple of runs with micro mesh to 12000 grit!! 


Lots of videos on you tub with hundreds of different techniques to see 





Ralph.

Yeah...and I've probably watched 95% of them .   Hate to hear about your difficulty with turning wood on your metal lathe, because both kits I ordered I got wood blanks for them....and I am going to be turning them on a 7x10 Mini Lathe(metal).  What do you used as a tool rest on your lathe when doing the pens?  I got a 1' x 1/2" square bar that I was gonna put in my tool holder to try doing it.  Any pointers or suggestions before I get started would be HUGELY appreciated.

[efrench]

Don't really do wooden ones.... It splinters and shatters in my experience! Probably cause I use a metal lathe?

I turn wood occasionally on my metal lathe, but I usually use wood turning hand tools.  If you're using regular metal cutting bits held in the toolpost, then you need to experiment with the shape and how the tool is presented to the wood.  In other words, plunging the bit straight in on the centerline will give you a scraping cut which tends to tear out a lot. 

One way to minimize tearout is to apply a coat of shellac or boiled linseed oil before each cut (depends on how deep it soaks in).  The boiled linseed oil doesn't have to dry or cure for it to affect the cut.

p.s. See the tangential tool thread for a possible solution.

[ddoyle]

Don't really do wooden ones.... It splinters and shatters in my experience! Probably cause I use a metal lathe?

I turn wood occasionally on my metal lathe, but I usually use wood turning hand tools.  If you're using regular metal cutting bits held in the toolpost, then you need to experiment with the shape and how the tool is presented to the wood.  In other words, plunging the bit straight in on the centerline will give you a scraping cut which tends to tear out a lot. 

One way to minimize tearout is to apply a coat of shellac or boiled linseed oil before each cut (depends on how deep it soaks in).  The boiled linseed oil doesn't have to dry or cure for it to affect the cut.

p.s. See the tangential tool thread for a possible solution.

I too will be using wood turning tools, hopefully that will make the difference

[texta]

very nice pens mate , it gets addictive and you will be constantly trying to come up with a new style or material .one thing i have learned is dont make them all to suit what you like cos i have made a few that i hated and some one else loved em .i have been making pens for quite a few years , must of sold 5 or 6 hundred of em i would think . the wife used to keep an exercise book with all the sales in but she gave up half way through the book and no longer keeps a record of them .
try some celtic knot type pens , they are a bit of a challenge .

johno.

[texta]

whoops sorry about the size of that pic .
couple of smaller ones .

[Ginger Nut]

Who'd of thought pens on this forum. Some real nice work in whats shown.

So I shall join in if its ok.

Recent birthdays of Grand daughter age 5 and grand son age 7 they both have iPods so a Stylus was in order.

Being as sweet as she deserves a little bling as well.

[AussieJimG]

Oh I do like the idea of making it into a stylus as well, how did you do that?

Jim

[texta]

most of the mobs that sell the pen kit hardware also sell kits to make the stylus ones .

johno

[Ginger Nut]

Oh I do like the idea of making it into a stylus as well, how did you do that?

Jim

Jim a mate got these for me as he had the acrylics I wanted also.
You can get them the Sierra Stylus comes as a kit so does the Slimline but you can buy just the stylus.
I buy from 043turning.com.au Mark has both stylus separate if required need to phone him as they are not on his website, very reasonable price.
Gary Pye only part of the kits
or from Timberbits.com.au David only has the Sierra ones
There is a new player also http://www.perfectpensandpencils.com.au/ .

Jim just going through Perfect pens n Pencils check the project kits section he has the Stylus sets/kits in there.

[AussieJimG]

Thanks Ginger Nut, this might be the year for starting early on the Xmas presents (and perhaps finishing by Xmas)

Jim

[Divided he ad]

Yeah, sorry guys. Should have made it clearer.

I'm using the toolpost with super sharp carbide. (CCGT and the likes) I don't trust myself with chisels!


Some mighty fine looking pens there too.... That Celtic Knot looks like a pain to build up..... It's hurting my head trying to figure out the pattern needed to cut n glue it all 


Never intended this as a business.... Hundreds!!!  I just like creating shapes    




Please show your results on here (this thread or start your own might be better  )




Good to know it's a well liked subject though 




Ralph.

[texta]

here's a couple more of the celtic knot one's i have made .
johno

[Divided he ad]

Some fine work there 


I have a question, some may call it Crass or uncouth but.... Money.....

 How do you fair in sales of the pens? When the kits and materials cost so much that by the time you have spent a few hours crafting them the costs (if realistic) would well outweigh the labour put in 

I.E. Some of the kits I could buy cost 20 GBP  Add the acrylic/wood/trustone blanks and that can easily bump upto 30 before any labour has taken place.

Do you guys find it easy to sell your pens (if figures above were used with say 2 hrs for labour) for somewhere around  70-80 GBP ??



Don't feel you need to answer this in public (PM if willing to answer) I'm just intrigued. I have no real want or ability to make such things for a living. I would hate to turn an enjoyable hobby into a "must do" work thing.




I know... It's just my head thinking again    





Ralph.   

 

[Ginger Nut]

Some fine work there 


I have a question, some may call it Crass or uncouth but.... Money.....

 How do you fair in sales of the pens? When the kits and materials cost so much that by the time you have spent a few hours crafting them the costs (if realistic) would well outweigh the labour put in 

I.E. Some of the kits I could buy cost 20 GBP  Add the acrylic/wood/trustone blanks and that can easily bump upto 30 before any labour has taken place.

Do you guys find it easy to sell your pens (if figures above were used with say 2 hrs for labour) for somewhere around  70-80 GBP ??



Don't feel you need to answer this in public (PM if willing to answer) I'm just intrigued. I have no real want or ability to make such things for a living. I would hate to turn an enjoyable hobby into a "must do" work thing.




I know... It's just my head thinking again    


I am not sure what you guys in the UK pay for kits ours here in AU start around $2 for slimline and top line kits reach $80. I limit my buying to Sierra around $6 to $8, Bolt Actions around $16, for Fountain pens and roller balls about $20 each tops for me.

Acrylic blanks range from $1 to $6 some I get free. ALL my wood is either off cuts or FREE even some exotic such as Wenge, English Oak, Black Palm. Of course Burls etc we find on the ground or some past on from other turners off cuts. I have bought some Mango blanks thes worked out to about 60c each.

I have a 55lt tub of off cuts for pen blanks or cutlery or finials I cull this about every 6 months usually give them away. A mate is into resin casting of pen blanks and he is doing some special wood n acrylic for me ATM.

Latest pen an Executive Clicker Gun Metal kit with QLD Mango polly finish.



Ralph.

[texta]

Some fine work there 


I have a question, some may call it Crass or uncouth but.... Money.....

 How do you fair in sales of the pens? When the kits and materials cost so much that by the time you have spent a few hours crafting them the costs (if realistic) would well outweigh the labour put in 

I.E. Some of the kits I could buy cost 20 GBP  Add the acrylic/wood/trustone blanks and that can easily bump upto 30 before any labour has taken place.

Do you guys find it easy to sell your pens (if figures above were used with say 2 hrs for labour) for somewhere around  70-80 GBP ??



Don't feel you need to answer this in public (PM if willing to answer) I'm just intrigued. I have no real want or ability to make such things for a living. I would hate to turn an enjoyable hobby into a "must do" work thing.




I know... It's just my head thinking again    





Ralph.

my price varies depending on the degree of difficulty and materials . cheapset pen would be 22 bucks and my dearest would be 100 bucks .
i try to charge twice what they cost me in materials plus a bit depending on difficulty and or material rarity.
i dont think you could charge by what the time spent is . i dont think there is a hobby out there that realy makes much of a profit , but if it pays its way and makes a little bit extra to go towards a machine or something then all is good . probablly most pens i sell would be in the 32 to 55 dollar bracket .
acrylic pens are very easy and i can turn and polish one in under 15 minutes once they have been drilled and the glue has cured of course , and the same goes for plain timber ones .
hence they get boring to make after a while and i tend to go with harder to make ( more time ) antler and celtic knot or more challenging material like corn cob's steel braid banksia seed pods buffalo horn those type of things and even some types timber that have a mind of their own .but easy to make pens do get to boring after a while . i never started making pens with the intention of becoming rich from it just cover costs and make a few extra bob on each one .so a pen that costs me maybe 20 in stuff to make it i would sell for around 50 time i dont figure into the equation mostly , although a pen that is a real bitch to make and sometimes requires a couple of failed attempts to get it right i will charge more for .

johno

[Divided he ad]

Thanks for the replies guys 


Much the same as me then.
I don't exactly sell a lot of them but always wondered what others sell for and how they work out what they do. Now I know 



Ralph.