At the auctions again

[Darren]

It's disease, auctions and me...

Just to keep Eric happy I came home with these today, (amongst some lesser items) one Mercer and one Baty bore gauge, both .0001" resolution. Should come in useful when I eventually get down to some precession boring needs.



And these, one Starrett Micrometer 25-50mm and one Verdict dial Gauge, .0005"



I was hunting down some info on the bore gauges, partic how to calibrate and use them, no luck so far but I did find this which gave me a bit of a shock  as I only paid about a fiver each for the bore gauges

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=320278361686

Just hope I'm worthy....

 

[bogstandard]

Darren,

You have been ripped off.

You need to have the Mitutoyo ones, which are classed as about the best you can get.

Mine range from 3K+ squid, to 8K+squid per set when new (I have 3 sets), next time you are over, ask to have a look at them, just so you can drool a little. BTW they have never been used, just calibrated, and put into storage.

The problem with mine is that they only measure up to 7.5mm (largest one)

The chinese are now banging out copies of yours for about 35 squid, so yes you did get a bargain.

Cost - F.O.C.

Now to get back on track. You should be able to calibrate them with a micrometer.

Bogs

[Twinsquirrel]

Result!!! Nice finds Darren.. It's like one of those "Antiques roadshow" moments.

Where are these auctions you go to? Sounds like a fun day out!

David

[sbwhart]

Hi Darren

I'm going to have to come to one of those auctions one day,  I'll hire a big van for the occasion  

You set the bore gauges with a calibrated setting ring.

Is the merser clock gauge missing its stylus if so I've got some I can let you have.

Cheers

Stew

[Darren]

It's actually a farmers mart David, sheep and everything, but you never know what you might find there. Quite a few of my tools have come from farmers  

I have a Mitutoyo digital caliper, Paid quite a lot for it too. I must admit I don't find it any more accurate than the cheap £7.99 ones. It's still goes out just the same when you slide it back and forth.

The old ones are the best John, good old british  (some American too) engineering, ruled the world with it at one time.....

[Darren]

Is the merser clock gauge missing its stylus if so I've got some I can let you have.

Well spotted that man... 

Eyes like a hawk...cept it's a Verdict not a Mercer 
Not that that should make any difference.

Now then these rings, are they available or do you make one yourself?
Micrometer, yes, silly me, of course, though a ring would be handier if you used it a lot, which I doubt.... 
Is it just me, I love old tools, some new ones too....how about you guys, do you have the disease too   

[bogstandard]

Darren,

The setting rings are precision ground and usually come with the tooling. Not a thing you knock up yourself.

I wasn't doubting the accuracy or quality at all, just general concensus nowadays, that with precision instruments, Mitutoyo is the force to be reckoned with.

I use whatever comes to hand, except for my Mercer and Verdict DTI's and of course my Starrett edge finder. Most stuff generally available nowadays is perfectly acceptable for what we do, but I think everyone has their own little favourites.

Bogs

[Twinsquirrel]

Darren,

Is this the sort of sale you go to?

"Salisbury market
Every Tuesday sales of finished cattle, sheep, cull cows, store cattle, calves, produce, farm deadstock, bric-a-brak. Commencing 10:30am, Pigs 7th April, 5th May & 2nd June"

This is really close to me I've just never even thought to go down there.

David

[Darren]

That's the sort of place David, though how much Bric-a-brak is something you'll have to find out on the day.Also you'll need to go a few times to get a feel. If nothing is there one day it could be full another.
My farmers auctions also have 4 tools and equipment sales a year as well as the monthly general auction.
I went one sunny day a few moths a go and bought so much I had to buy a trailer as well to get it home. Next time there was hardly anything worth having. You just never know.

There are also others in the area, but I tend not to go to all of them, just now and again.

Car boots can be rewarding as well, but you'll have to get there early. With mine, not that I've been for a couple of years now , you need to be there around 6am.
Go when the public normally goes and you're wasting your time as it's all over by 8am. Most people don't realise this.

(it used to be my main income at one time for quite a few years)

Basically, I put these posts up to show what is out there and what can be found. If it helps then all well and good. I have made a good life out of finding stuff (not rich, just very rewarding in other ways) but now take a back seat mostly.

[Darren]

I wasn't knocking Mitutoyo John, far from it. More the cheap end is catching up fast these days.

There was a time when you got what you paid for, now the gap seems to be closing rapidly.
Esp when some big names are nothing more than branding exercises of the same gear as the budget market.
It's getting hard to know which way to look in some respects. Then in others does it really matter.
We don't need the ultimate in accuracy, but then who does.

I can't help thinking that when two surfaces move against each other then it's time to re-calibrate or factor in a tolerance.
How accurate is accurate? Diff temps, wear, acceptability, etc etc.

[bogstandard]

At one time Darren, most tooling had a temperature standard on it, especially steel rules. They used to have normally 68degs F stamped on them, that was the only temp it was guaranteed to be accurate at. You will also find at high precision machinists, they have a stabilised temperature control (a little like air con, but a lot more acurate). so all precision tooling is guaranteed to be accurate at that temperature. Any major workshop worth it's salt would send their tooling away for calibration at designated intervals, and once the tooling went 'out of date' it could not be used until recalibrated again, even if it had never been used.
On early hard drives, the cylinder read heads used to 'fly' on a cushion of air generated by the surface of the disc plattens as they spun, an atom of cigarrette smoke could cause the heads to crash, because it was too thick to pass thru the gap between the head and platten. That gap could actually be measured and adjusted very accurately, not mechanically, but electronically.

We are only playing at being accurate.

John

[Darren]

What's inside your common garden computer processor gets me, mind boggling !!!

[sbwhart]

Is the merser clock gauge missing its stylus if so I've got some I can let you have.

Well spotted that man... 

If you PM your address, I'll pop some in the post.

Stew

[Darren]

Here's a classic example of the Chinese catching up,

"Well over the years I have used many Aloris tool posts. When I took them
apart to clean and lubricate I was never impressed with the machining there. I
did buy a phase 2 one some time ago and I had to deburr all the parts including
the inner parts. My holders on
this one (China) fit very good and they lock up tight. No movement while
checking with dial indecator. If any problems arise in using it, you guys will be
the first to know. Now if I can just find the cut off blades I put somewhere
for safe keeping!!!

George"

In a message dated 3/26/2009 20:11:56 Eastern Daylight Time,

Posted on the Atlas Yahoo groups this morning.

[sbwhart]

Hi Darren

Did the stylus and wobbler arrive Ok

Stew

[Darren]

Yep got it this morning Stew,  , interesting thingamajig, not had a propper look yet....

I'll be back................

[sbwhart]

It,s for clocking round corners 

Stew

[Darren]

Bad news I'm afraid Stew,

Got the bit's OK but mine is a different thread,

You sent, as far as I can work out, a stylus with a 7/64 dia and a 48tpi thread,  (7/64, 0.1080", 2.74mm) 48tpi is the same or very close to 0.5mm pitch.

But 7/64 48tpi doesn't seem to make much sense with threading charts so it could be 3mm 0.5 pitch.

This is the same as my other dial gauge.


My new gauge has 2.53mm dia and 0.45 pitch (2.53, 0.100") seems to be no eqv tpi to 0.45mm pitch.

I guess in real life that translates to 2.5mm x 0.45mm

The wobbler, is that it's real name? seems an interesting device. I guess for measuring under something, such as what John was doing with my mini lathe when working out how bent it was 

Here's a pic as it's not fair for others reading without knowing what on earth we are talking about....

[sbwhart]

Darren

I'll have a look to see if I've got one the right size I've got a small collection.

The wobbler:- the way you've shown it is right, but if you look the round bit with the ball on the end can be unscrewed and screwed in the other face as well, very andy for clocking bores.

I'll post a pic tomorrow, of it in use.

Stew

[bogstandard]

Darren,

You can buy point sets such as this over here, but I can't find them at the moment. Mine cost less than a fiver for the set from Chester UK.

http://littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=1783&category=1310310429

John

[Darren]

Ah, got you Stew, hadn't noticed that, what a handy little device that is.....thank you for the pressie I can see me using it now 

John, again you have opened my eyes, never seen or heard of them, and even if I spotted then I wouldn't have realised what they would be for. 

I notice those linked are "All have #4-48 threads" Ok so mine must not be metric after all. I understand the 48=tpi but what is the #4 

[ozzie46]

  Darren
  The #4 refers to the the size of the screw or bolt in the small sizes  over here, USA.
  There are 2-56, 4-40 ect. There are several thread pitches to each "bolt/screw size.
 Usually these sizes are below 1/8in.

 Ron

[Darren]

Thanks Ron, is that dia, or length...does the #4 have a relation to a measurement such as fractions of an inch or is just a code like letter drills?

[ozzie46]

  Darren as far as i Know it is just the dia. of them. Im no expert but they are common items over here in small screw/bolts. Sheet metal screws also use that designation for small sizes as well as machine screws.

  Ron

[bogstandard]

Darren,

I have now found them. You need to download the latest Chester catalogue (well worth it just for the drool factor).

http://www.chesteruk.net/images/catalogue_pages/Chester%20Machine%20Tools%204th%20Edition%20Small%20Tools%20Catalogue.pdf

Save the catalogue to your computer, and the bits are on page 81.

John

[ozzie46]

   

   Darren here is a tap drill chart showing the info.

   Sorry I didn't post it sooner. My only defense is advanced age and mediocre thinking ability.


   Ron

[bogstandard]

Hi Ron,

Nice chart, maybe you could put it into the downloads section so it won't go out of date with this post. Then it is there for everyone to find.

John

[sbwhart]

Thanks for the Chart Ron

I've been scratching my head over the thread sizes on the drawing for the elbow engine  I've just ended up using the metric size I've thought best, now I've got a way for a direct conversion

Thanks

Stew

[bogstandard]

Stew,

There are charts for all sorts of things that I have put in the downloads section.

John

[Darren]

   

   Darren here is a tap drill chart showing the info.

   Sorry I didn't post it sooner. My only defense is advanced age and mediocre thinking ability.


   Ron

Thanks Ron,

Maybe I'm just a bit slow, but that doesn't help at all, even the drill sizes don't make any sense to me 
You Americans 

Come to think of it we have something similar with screws, wood screws I mean. No 6 & 8 being the ones I use mostly when building.

No6 screw uses a No6 Rawlplug which needs a No6 drill bit, No8 follows a similar pattern as do the other No's I guess.
Nice and simple for the builders of this land 
Never seen the system used for bolts though.

At first I though Ah, same system you are trying to describe to me, but having seen the chart you posted it seems that is not the case.

[Darren]

Darren,

I have now found them. You need to download the latest Chester catalogue (well worth it just for the drool factor).

http://www.chesteruk.net/images/catalogue_pages/Chester%20Machine%20Tools%204th%20Edition%20Small%20Tools%20Catalogue.pdf

Save the catalogue to your computer, and the bits are on page 81.

John

Thanks John, I'll have a good look at that...

[bogstandard]

Darren,

I might be the same sort of system as we use for B.A. threads, no corelation between the numbers used, other than the larger the B.A. number, the smaller the thread.

John

[ozzie46]

  John, Darren

   On these, the large the # the larger the dia.  Thus 2-56 is quite small and 12-32 is close to 3/16.

  Ron