Author Topic: Yet another guy tries to fix his Sieg SX2 looseness  (Read 36701 times)

Offline vintageandclassicrepairs

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Re: Yet another guy tries to fix his Sieg SX2 looseness
« Reply #25 on: February 25, 2014, 06:01:39 PM »

HI All
Quote
Yes you cant use them lying on their side but NO they wont explode if laid down or even falling over

This is a very dangerous practice :bugeye:
lying the Acetylene tank on its side while using it allows the stabilising agent (acetone) to flow from the tank

The lack of stabilising agent can cause catastrophe   :jaw:




Regards
John

Offline MetalMuncher

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Re: Yet another guy tries to fix his Sieg SX2 looseness
« Reply #26 on: February 25, 2014, 06:27:05 PM »
Well, I was always told it is dangerous and illegal to "haul" them lying down, and that you should always use them upright. But I had not heard why.  And of course use the valve cover, but I figured that was in case one accidentally did fall over, so the valve didn't get snapped off. I imagine any flammable gas cylinder falling over and hitting a floor would be potentially disastrous. I keep mine on a cart designed for the purpose, and haul the whole cart strapped upright in a pickup when they need to go be exchanged.

Regarding the stories about penetrating concrete walls when one "launches", my dad saw this happen when working in US Steel decades ago.

Another thing I was told was that MAPP gas burned hotter (and so was more desireable and justified the higher cost). I guess that was wrong. My father in law used to use LP in place of acetylene because it was cheaper. Burned cooler, but got the job done.

I decided to Google mapp gas vs. acetylene, and learned that it does indeed burn cooler, but it is much safer to use and transport. And, something surprising to me - the mapp gas you buy today isn't really mapp gas. We stopped producing genuine mapp gas in North America in Spring 2008. The mapp gas sold today is a replacement made of LP gas with high levels of propylene added. Learn something new every day! :) I'll bet they did not lower the price. ;)


Offline superc

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Re: Yet another guy tries to fix his Sieg SX2 looseness
« Reply #27 on: February 25, 2014, 09:05:59 PM »
Tell that to Morrisania Hospital in NYC.  That was cited as the direct cause of the explosion that destroyed that hospital (there were several dozen O2 tanks near by as well as other bottled gases).  Not a distant event for me cause I saw the blast from the #4 train station.

Offline superc

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Re: Yet another guy tries to fix his Sieg SX2 looseness
« Reply #28 on: February 25, 2014, 09:11:40 PM »
<snipped for brevity>
I decided to Google mapp gas vs. acetylene, and learned that it does indeed burn cooler, but it is much safer to use and transport. And, something surprising to me - the mapp gas you buy today isn't really mapp gas. We stopped producing genuine mapp gas in North America in Spring 2008. The mapp gas sold today is a replacement made of LP gas with high levels of propylene added. Learn something new every day! :) I'll bet they did not lower the price. ;)

Well it may now be empty but I got two big bottles back in 05.  I last used some of one of them back in 2010.  In theory, there should be about 1 1/3 tanks of genuine Mapp in the shed since I never did crack one of them.  It is of course recognized they may both be empty (also the O) but my fingers are crossed. 

Offline RussellT

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Re: Yet another guy tries to fix his Sieg SX2 looseness
« Reply #29 on: February 26, 2014, 04:23:39 AM »
Hi Metal Muncher and Superc.

I'm glad you liked my idea - sorry if you had to rethink.  Next time I'll try and post an answer before you post the question. :lol:

The thread now seems to have digressed onto how to bend a thick steel plate.  I'm with Velocette, I wouldn't try and bend it.  I'd use angle or solid bar to connect two plates.  That seems to me to have a better chance of getting them at 90 degrees and also gives some scope for adjusting the angle for a perfect fit.

Russell
Common sense is unfortunately not as common as its name suggests.

Offline superc

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Re: Yet another guy tries to fix his Sieg SX2 looseness
« Reply #30 on: February 26, 2014, 02:11:23 PM »
Well I agree we are moving off topic, gases and the ilk.  Sure if you have never flopped semi molten steel before, don't go that way.

In any case I came up with a new idea and I am starting a new thread about that.  I think the best place to put it is in 'Neat Stuff,' look for it there.

Offline tomrux

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Re: Yet another guy tries to fix his Sieg SX2 looseness
« Reply #31 on: February 26, 2014, 05:08:00 PM »
Vintage
perhaps my Grammar escaped you but I did say you "CANT" as in 'can not' use them lying down. So long as they are stood up for a while before use transport/storage  lying down is all good. they wont go exploding. And there is not sufficient pressure in an Acetylene bottle to go torpedo.

Tom R

Offline mattinker

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Re: Yet another guy tries to fix his Sieg SX2 looseness
« Reply #32 on: February 26, 2014, 05:22:43 PM »
I'm curious, when was the explosion?

Regards, Matthew

Offline MetalMuncher

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Re: Yet another guy tries to fix his Sieg SX2 looseness
« Reply #33 on: February 26, 2014, 06:15:28 PM »
Hi Metal Muncher and Superc.

I'm glad you liked my idea - sorry if you had to rethink.  Next time I'll try and post an answer before you post the question. :lol:

The thread now seems to have digressed onto how to bend a thick steel plate.  I'm with Velocette, I wouldn't try and bend it.  I'd use angle or solid bar to connect two plates.  That seems to me to have a better chance of getting them at 90 degrees and also gives some scope for adjusting the angle for a perfect fit.

Russell


That was my thought too. Plus I like making things I can take apart later, if need be.


Offline MetalMuncher

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Re: Yet another guy tries to fix his Sieg SX2 looseness
« Reply #34 on: February 26, 2014, 06:45:57 PM »
OK, back on topic.

I have completed this modification, and got some amazing results! Test milling 6061 I worked incrementally up to a cut of 0.1" depth with the full width of a 7/16 end mill, and it milled smoothly and quietly, under power feed, in both directions. I probably could have gone deeper,  but wanted to see steel. I used a scrap block of 1018. Understand I am accustomed to not exceeding 0.020" on steel due to the way the job would chatter and make the mill sound like something wanted to come apart. So, I started out at 0.020, with great results. Increased to 0.040, still cutting smoothly and quietly. Increased to 0.060, and still worked well. Keep in mind this was cut dry, in both directions across the piece (so half the time the force applied to the moveable jaw on my 4" screwless vise) using an X axis powerfeed like that sold by LMS or MicroMark.

As an "acid test" I added some Tricut fluid to the piece and dialed in a depth of 0.080". I used hand feed just in case I needed to back pedal quickly. The mill grumbled a little, but I did make the pass OK.

These results thrilled me! :D I feel I have quadrupled the capability lf this little mill simply by doing this plate mod, and wish I had seen this back in 2004 when I got the mill.

I am considering also trying filling the bottom of the column, below my spring air cylinder mount, but having just trammed the mill to a variance of only 0.0005" on both X and Y axes, I am hesitant to pull the column off to make the requisite plug for the pivot bolt holes to prevent whatever fill material I would use from adhering to the bolt.

I found that the sequence of tightening the 23mm bolt and the 4 bolts on the lower bar is important. I had everything trammed within that half mil mentioned above, but decided to snug the big nut again. Bad idea. I lost the tram and had to begin again from loose. I should mention the device I made to help with tramming. It is essentially a miniature tie rod, screwed between the column and base casting on the left side. Makes fine adjustments on X axis tram very easy, and holds the column vertical when the nut is removed. Here's a picture of it.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/o6rqs1huir7rmg9/Mill%20Column%20Turnbuckle%2014_0226.png

So I had to tighten the big nut as tight as I wanted it, BEFORE beginning tightening the bar at the bottom of the stiffener plate. My mill has the typical forward head droop, so I then worked with the outer bolts first, tightning them together and watching the dial indicator I had on the spindle, contacting a precision ground steel plate clamped to the table, to eliminate the droop. Lastly, snug the inner bar bolts against the casting to stabilize the outer bolts, and I was good to go.

THANK YOU for this modification!!!! :)

Offline vintageandclassicrepairs

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Re: Yet another guy tries to fix his Sieg SX2 looseness
« Reply #35 on: February 27, 2014, 07:39:38 PM »
HI Tom R,
Sorry I misread your "cant"
Its usually written "can't" as a shortened "can not" as you meant
"cant" is a different word all together

We both know what the dangers are when acetylene tanks are canted over    :lol:

Regards
John

Offline iafilius

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Re: Yet another guy tries to fix his Sieg SX2 looseness
« Reply #36 on: January 25, 2015, 04:19:18 AM »
I bought my SX2 with the fixed column option (from Sieg factory, via local company here in Singapore). When taking heavy-ish cuts, it still is very loud. It sounds like it's vibration coming from the electronics box, but I'm not sure. I've been thinking about filling the column with epoxy and gravel too, though I have absolutely no idea if it will help any..

The other thing that is very annoying is the head drop issue, which I need to look at too.

Hi teegee

About the loud vibrating you talk about, i noticed that too, not sure of course it is about the same.

The noise seemed to come from the upper side.

While converting my sx2p with r8 spindle to tapered upper and lower bearing, i noticed a possible (likely) source.
The motor is attached to a plastic cap of the tooth-belt, and the cap itself is attached to the head with four bolts around the spindle pulley.
See photo's.
The motor side of the plastic cap is not bolted to the head and what i think while heavy cuts the motor will go up/down and slamming on the head causing very loud noise.

Offline teegee

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Re: Yet another guy tries to fix his Sieg SX2 looseness
« Reply #37 on: January 29, 2015, 02:37:32 AM »
About the loud vibrating you talk about, i noticed that too, not sure of course it is about the same.

The noise seemed to come from the upper side.

While converting my sx2p with r8 spindle to tapered upper and lower bearing, i noticed a possible (likely) source.
The motor is attached to a plastic cap of the tooth-belt, and the cap itself is attached to the head with four bolts around the spindle pulley.
See photo's.
The motor side of the plastic cap is not bolted to the head and what i think while heavy cuts the motor will go up/down and slamming on the head causing very loud noise.

Hah, I saw your comment by coincidence. Thanks, I will definitely keep an eye out for that the next time it happens. You may well be correct, in which case it should be possible to feel the vibration, and pushing on the motor should make some difference. I already ruled out the electronics box as the source.

Cheers, Rob