Author Topic: Redesign of my Grizzly G4000 9" X 19" lathe  (Read 17719 times)

Offline Bernd

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Redesign of my Grizzly G4000 9" X 19" lathe
« on: March 29, 2009, 04:08:30 PM »
Here's a design project that has been on the books, in other words in the back of my mind, for some time. When I got the Grizzly lathe, G4000 9" X 19", about 10 years ago, I figured I would be all set to do some turning. Unfortunately back then the quality of their machines is not what it is today. There were and still are a lot of things wrong with it. I fixed a few things and the other I did without until I got my 10" Logan lathe.

For one thing threading on the Grizzly was a nightmare. It just won't single point a thread no matter how hard I tried. So I gave up on cutting threads single point and used only dies. I fixed some binding in the controls on the apron and made some new bushings for the gears.

Now that I've gotten back into home shop machining and having several more accurate tools to work with, in each, the Logan lathe and the Bridgeport mill, I plan on someday in the future to turn the lathe into a multifunctional machine. By that I mean I would like to turn it into a line boring machine because of it's table with the slots in it. I also want to be able to index the spindle and have a cutting head located on the cross slide to do that. I discovered that the Sherline headstock can be bolted to the cross slide on a home made plate that gets bolted to the cross slide.

The other change I want to make is to put a variable DC speed drive on the machine and possibly a DC drive on the carriage. This would work great since I won't be cutting threads via the single point method. I could get rid of the noisy gears.

First is a picture of the G4000  9" X 19" lathe.


And here is the donor tread mill for the DC drive.


And here are the parts. From left to right: the control board, the speed control (long skinny green board), the safety switch (red and black), a incline motor (used to incline the tread mill so walk up hill. It's an AC reversible motor with gear rack),
The main power and motor control board, and finally the motor it's self, the motor is 6800RPM 2HP motor.



So the above is the plan of what I want to do. I have no time line as to when I think I'll have it done, after all it took one year to get the tread mill drive unit. I had originally brought the tread mill home from the transfer station. A guy was throwing it away because his wife said it won't work with her on it. He said that it ran. All I did was spray some silicone lube on the running belt and it worked fine. Then the wife was having problems keeping it going. She got sick of looking at it so this past Saturday I murdered the mill and kept the appropriate parts.

So I'm thinking my next large project after the index head will be the Grizzly lathe. It will be done in small increments or when the spirit moves me. There are also a few small projects planned in between the work on the lathe. Along with a veggie garden that will need attending soon and the brick laying that will start up again. I just hope it rains a lot because that'll give me an excuse to work in the shop. :clap:

Regards,
Bernd
You can't fix "STUPID".

Offline sbwhart

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Re: Redesign of my Grizzly G4000 9" X 19" lathe
« Reply #1 on: March 29, 2009, 04:16:48 PM »
Looking forward to seeing the lathe asimulated  :borg:

Stew
A little bit of clearance never got in the road
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Offline Darren

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Re: Redesign of my Grizzly G4000 9" X 19" lathe
« Reply #2 on: March 29, 2009, 05:05:23 PM »
Me too, I'd like to see how you get on with that motor  :thumbup:
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bogstandard

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Re: Redesign of my Grizzly G4000 9" X 19" lathe
« Reply #3 on: March 29, 2009, 11:36:41 PM »
Bernd,

Seing as to how you are making a very versatile machine out of it, maybe contemplate fitting a grinding head on there as well.

I see LMS have a couple of very reasonably priced toolpost grinders that would fit the bill nicely.

http://littlemachineshop.com/products/product_search.php?critFast=tool+post+grinder&B1=Product+Search

They are not overly large, and with a couple of micrometer heads fitted to a home made carriage you could get super accurate finishes and sizes.

John

Offline sbwhart

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Re: Redesign of my Grizzly G4000 9" X 19" lathe
« Reply #4 on: March 30, 2009, 04:03:04 AM »
Bernd,

Seing as to how you are making a very versatile machine out of it, maybe contemplate fitting a grinding head on there as well.

I see LMS have a couple of very reasonably priced toolpost grinders that would fit the bill nicely.

http://littlemachineshop.com/products/product_search.php?critFast=tool+post+grinder&B1=Product+Search

They are not overly large, and with a couple of micrometer heads fitted to a home made carriage you could get super accurate finishes and sizes.

John

 :offtopic:

Ho John now I know what I want for Christmas I've been lusting after one of them after watching you use one, very handy bit of kit, I take it they will deliver to the UK.

Cheers

Stew
A little bit of clearance never got in the road
 :wave:

Location:- Crewe Cheshire

bogstandard

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Re: Redesign of my Grizzly G4000 9" X 19" lathe
« Reply #5 on: March 30, 2009, 04:15:46 AM »
 :offtopic:

Stew,

I think you might have voltage problems to overcome as well.

110volt is ok, as you can just plug it into a yellow site transformer, as I did with the power feeds on my mill, but I don't know how the 220volt works. Is it some sort of 3 phase?

John

Offline sbwhart

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Re: Redesign of my Grizzly G4000 9" X 19" lathe
« Reply #6 on: March 30, 2009, 04:39:43 AM »
Thanks John

Forgot in my excitment about the voltage difference.  :(

Stew
A little bit of clearance never got in the road
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Location:- Crewe Cheshire

Offline Bernd

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Re: Redesign of my Grizzly G4000 9" X 19" lathe
« Reply #7 on: March 30, 2009, 08:18:59 AM »
:offtopic:

, but I don't know how the 220volt works. Is it some sort of 3 phase?

John

John,

All houses over here are provided with 220Volt service into the house. Two wires, each carry 110volt, plus a ground. So when you want 110 volt you use one wire and the ground from the 220 volt severice. All is single phase.

 It would cost an arm and leg for 3 phase into the house. It is only used in commerical places.

Bernd
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Offline Bernd

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Re: Redesign of my Grizzly G4000 9" X 19" lathe
« Reply #8 on: March 30, 2009, 08:25:26 AM »
Bernd,

Seing as to how you are making a very versatile machine out of it, maybe contemplate fitting a grinding head on there as well.

John

I have that in mind John. Those ones from The Little Machine shop are nice.

Though I'm thinking of using the Sherline headstock for a grinding spindle. I'll make a mock up and post a pic of what I'm thinking about doing.

I've wanted to do this mod for such a long time on this machine just hadn't summed up the courage to do it until I saw you doing Darren's lathe. That'll be the first thing to get checked out is the bed ways when I finally get to it.

Bernd
You can't fix "STUPID".

Offline Bernd

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Re: Redesign of my Grizzly G4000 9" X 19" lathe
« Reply #9 on: March 30, 2009, 09:37:07 AM »
Ok I've added a few more pics of what I would like to do with this mod.

First I had done was try to use the Sherline head stock and the Grizzly lathe as a tool grinder. It was some what successful. The first pic shows how I had to fasten the headstock to the cross slide. The other two views show the headstock in place.






Now I can also mount the mill column of the Sherline on the cross slide. I can now mill a key slot or drill cross holes and do indexing drilling in a round piece without having to take it out of the machine. These are just some ideas I've comtemplated over the years of having both machines.



It's going to be a long project from what I can see. I believe if I do it in steps a little at a time I will have her done in no time.

I might have to look for that "round-it-it" I was sent a while back though.  :)

Bernd
You can't fix "STUPID".

bogstandard

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Re: Redesign of my Grizzly G4000 9" X 19" lathe
« Reply #10 on: March 30, 2009, 11:38:57 AM »
Bernd,

That is starting to look just like one of these.

http://www.chesteruk.net/store/cestrian_multi_function_machine.htm

No idea what it does, but it looks nice.


Bogs

Offline Bernd

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Re: Redesign of my Grizzly G4000 9" X 19" lathe
« Reply #11 on: March 30, 2009, 01:47:51 PM »
It looks like a machine designed by a committe. Could be a mill wanting to be a lathe. Mine looks like a lathe wanting to be a mill.  :lol:

Have to agree with you though, it does look nice.

Bernd
You can't fix "STUPID".

Offline Brass_Machine

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Re: Redesign of my Grizzly G4000 9" X 19" lathe
« Reply #12 on: April 03, 2009, 12:42:58 PM »
Interesting Bernd. I like the idea of being able to index drill without unchucking the piece.

Carry on!

Eric
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Offline Bernd

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Re: Redesign of my Grizzly G4000 9" X 19" lathe
« Reply #13 on: April 03, 2009, 09:15:28 PM »
This whole idea came from seeing the Maximat lathe. A small presion lathe that had a mill head bolted to the back of the ways. I would have bought one but the price was way to prohibative.

When I got the Sherline and saw how it was attached I figure I could make something similar. Now that I have the Logan lathe I can proceed with this project. First though I need to finish the index head that I started.

Bernd
You can't fix "STUPID".

bogstandard

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Re: Redesign of my Grizzly G4000 9" X 19" lathe
« Reply #14 on: April 03, 2009, 10:55:53 PM »
Bernd,

I really like your idea for this machine, it has really grabbed my imagination and praise.

With a little thought and planning it could turn out to be a machine that will do all the little PITA jobs that crop up on the mill and lathe, although on this machine, they wouldn't be a PITA.

Really the only thing that can hold you back is your imagination.
Just think, by dropping on bits of tooling, taper turning, grinding, indexed angled drilling & milling etc. etc., in fact, as I said, you could let your imagination run wild.

This is one to keep my eye on for picking up good ideas.
I only wish I had the room to do something like it.

Space envy.

Bogs

Offline Bernd

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Re: Redesign of my Grizzly G4000 9" X 19" lathe
« Reply #15 on: April 04, 2009, 09:52:10 AM »
Bogs,

As I said it was something I always wanted. Stemed from my model railroad interest in scratch building. A versitile machine where you could carry out may different operations.

You know it could be done with the lathe you have. See if you come across a mini-mill like my Grizzly and bolt that to the back of the lathe. Now mind you this is just a thought.

I did a bit of a search in the net and couldn't find a good picture of where this idea came from. If you have ever heard of Kozo Hiraoka, the Japanese that wrote the three books on how to build the geared engines, he has an Emco Mat lathe. Aparently they were the for runners of our small lathes produced today. They were either build in Germany or Switzerland, so you can guess the price tag. From what I can gather by going to the Emco company site these samll lathes are no longer made. Although they can be found on the used market.

Here's a picture of one of those lathes. I believe they had a couple of different sizes also.


Bernd
You can't fix "STUPID".

Offline John Hill

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Re: Redesign of my Grizzly G4000 9" X 19" lathe
« Reply #16 on: April 04, 2009, 04:30:07 PM »
Bernd, Bogs,  do I see two different configurations being discussed here?  A horizontal spindle to do work on pieces held in the chuck and a vertical spindle for work held on the carriage?

I have considered making a horizontal auxiliary spindle to mount on the carriage, mainly because I need to make a spindle for my copy router project and I thought it might be neat to make a dual purpose device.  My copy router requires high spindle speeds but I am unsure what speeds would be useful for the lathe auxiliary spindle, much slower I presume.

Then I tell myself that the easiest auxiliary spindle would be a common or garden electric hand drill mounted on the carriage, but I never see anyone doing this.....? :scratch:
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bogstandard

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Re: Redesign of my Grizzly G4000 9" X 19" lathe
« Reply #17 on: April 04, 2009, 05:10:32 PM »
John,

Really a normal electric drill hasn't got the accuracy and robustness to cope in a machining environment (just wobble the chuck about to find out what I mean). It is much easier to make up your own ball raced spindle and drive it from a small electric or air motor (as I am doing with the precision drill I will be making).



I know where you are coming from Bernd, about using my normal lathe, but that isn't my interest at all. I would much prefer a dedicated 'machining' centre, where all the jobs on the mill or lathe which are a PITA to set up and strip down, are all done on a dedicated 'bitsa' machine, which is equipped, over time, with all the home made bolt on goodies you can think of.

But all that is pie in the sky for me now. After a short but great visit by our John Stevenson this morning, the last bit of unallocated space in my shop has been earmarked, when funds allow, for the fitting of a small CNC mill, to assist me in the production of small commercial items.
He put my mind at rest about whether it was the way for me to proceed, or not. Thank you John.


Bogs

Offline Darren

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Re: Redesign of my Grizzly G4000 9" X 19" lathe
« Reply #18 on: April 04, 2009, 06:47:07 PM »
I believe it's been done with a car engine block, there is a forum out there somewhere, called a multimachine I think

John, you almost had it when the mini was bolted to your mill....now that would be interesting... :)
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Offline Bernd

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Re: Redesign of my Grizzly G4000 9" X 19" lathe
« Reply #19 on: April 04, 2009, 09:58:06 PM »
I came across the item that started my original thinking along this line of machine. It is in The Shop Wisdom of Rudy Kouhoupt book number 1 by Village press. When he started machining he started with a Unimat and a Perris Lathe. The Perris lathe is/was manufactured by Perris Engineering (Brighton) Ltd. Hove Sussex England. He used the Unimat headstock to make a milling spindle attached to the Perris lathe.



And this is the base he made to attach it.



These pictures that I have posted of Kozo Hiraoka and Rudy Kouhoupt are actually more of a lathe/milling machine since both mill heads are not moveable. Were as mine is because I will have it mounted on the cross slide.

Bogs

I was just putting out a suggestion and as I said above they are more of a lathe/mill combo than what I plan on doing. That's also why I had to wait till I got another lathe so I can turn the Grizzly into a dedicated multi machine.

Darren,

I remember seeing that some place too where an engine block was used.

Bernd
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Offline Bernd

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Re: Redesign of my Grizzly G4000 9" X 19" lathe
« Reply #20 on: April 04, 2009, 10:05:21 PM »
Bernd, Bogs,  do I see two different configurations being discussed here?  A horizontal spindle to do work on pieces held in the chuck and a vertical spindle for work held on the carriage?


Actually yes. The ones I have shown are more of a lathe/mill combo. The mill table being the cross slide. The confirguration I am going to do is a moveable spindle by mounting it on the cross slide. A good use would be if I wanted to make the hub of a flywheel using round spokes. I would turn the hub to it's finished size. Mount the mill spindle on the cross slide and drill the cross holes for the spokes without ever having to remove the hub from the lathe spindle. Another example would be having a round part with either a hex or square milled on to it. These are just two examples of what can be done with a machine like that.  I'm sure more will come as you think about how to use such a setup.

Bernd
You can't fix "STUPID".

Offline cedge

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Re: Redesign of my Grizzly G4000 9" X 19" lathe
« Reply #21 on: April 04, 2009, 10:36:35 PM »
hmmmm....  I've got an X2 mini mill just sitting here gathering dust and a C4 lathe that has a very heavily built carriage. Darn you Bernd.... I really don't need another tooling project right now..... LOL

Steve

Offline sbwhart

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Re: Redesign of my Grizzly G4000 9" X 19" lathe
« Reply #22 on: April 05, 2009, 01:20:48 AM »
From reading this thread I think you Guys have got another dose of

 :proj:    :lol:

Stew



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Offline John Hill

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Re: Redesign of my Grizzly G4000 9" X 19" lathe
« Reply #23 on: April 05, 2009, 02:13:22 AM »
Hokay John, that explains the electric drill absence,  but I do need to make a spindle for my copy router and one never knows but I might just be able to mount it on the carriage too. :coffee:
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bogstandard

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Re: Redesign of my Grizzly G4000 9" X 19" lathe
« Reply #24 on: April 05, 2009, 03:34:21 AM »
That's it John,

Versatile tooling, used on more than one machine.

Bogs