Author Topic: Getting the most out of Carbide Inserts  (Read 29754 times)

Offline Darren

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Getting the most out of Carbide Inserts
« on: March 29, 2009, 06:22:41 PM »
Some of this will be old news to many of you, but for some, like me, it will be new.... :ddb:

Having visited bogs recently I had one of those light bulb moments when I saw one of his lathe tools..

Carbide inserts are advertised as having four cutting edges, but I could never figure out how to use two of them,

A pic tells all, buy a toolholder that turns the tip around !! There is another type as well. Most of us start with the one on the left, the right one is a SCBCR type.



Whilst out doing my "duty" with the missus yesterday (Saturday) I spotted these on the market. Some diamond coated thingamajigs, a little like cut off saws.
Don't the mind ever rest !!!



I mounted one up to see if it would sharpen a tungsten tip. My "other" stones wouldn't touch carbide. merely polish the stuff.
Here's a well abused tip, well no tip as its gone....please excuse the state of the toolholder, that's what happens when the carbide tip breaks and the toolholder rams itself into the work....



Using a small wedge to set the angles





And here is the result, nice and sharp it is too. The grinding looks coarse, this is just the macro photography getting up close. Bear in mind how small an 06 size tip is.



Add a slight radius to the nose


Quite simply it worked, not only that it worked very quickly. The grinding is very fast and you need to be careful not to grind the tip away altogether !! Well, beyond any usefulness at least.
I recon you could get away with a couple of re-sharpens at least.

A nice cheap money saving tip...... :dremel:



« Last Edit: March 29, 2009, 06:24:30 PM by Darren »
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bogstandard

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Re: Getting the most out of Carbide Inserts
« Reply #1 on: March 29, 2009, 11:21:07 PM »
Good tip Darren (no pun intended), I have a load of those diamond cutting discs, never thought to use them in that way.

The tips should make good 'roughers', leaving the new ones for fine finishing work.

John

Offline Stilldrillin

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Re: Getting the most out of Carbide Inserts
« Reply #2 on: March 30, 2009, 02:26:52 AM »
Funny old world innit.  :scratch:

I was looking at a set of those discs, only yesterday!

Decided I had no use for them.......  ::)

Hmmmm.......

Thanks Darren!  :thumbup:

David.
David.

Still drilling holes... Sometimes, in the right place!

Still modifying bits of metal... Occasionally, making an improvement!

Offline Darren

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Re: Getting the most out of Carbide Inserts
« Reply #3 on: March 30, 2009, 04:07:33 PM »
Bet ya al' thought dis ere' tred wa done fa didn ya..... :ddb: :ddb: :ddb:

Nope, been down in the cellar again tonight whittlin' away at some old bit of steel.


To start from the beginning, a nice new pack of these turned up this morning. You can see the 06 size on the left and some 09's on the right.



Six sides and double sided as well so you can flip them over. Cost £2.00 for ten inc P&P from Ebay.
These are quite a lot larger than what I'm used to and the current problem is I have no tools to mount them to. Add to that tooling in this size is expensive.

So why not make something?

This is an old tool bit that came with my Myford of many years ago. Well worn out and totally finished.
Can you see a plan yet?  :ddb: :ddb: :ddb:



Milled a slab of the top front



Drilled and tapped it to 3mm x 0.5, being very careful to put it on the right spot  :thumbup: I made the thread slightly towards the back locating ridge to "pull" the insert nice and tight.



Fitted the insert to check all was ok. Then scribed along the edge for the next stage.



Setting the angle by eye. I use this HSS bit a lot, but it never seems to do any cutting  :lol:



Nearly done



Take the pointy bit off



Done !!!



It's hard to describe just how well this worked, a pic just don't say it but have a look at these while I sort a vid out

That's a 20mm steel bar, each step is one pass. And not particularly free machining either
Nice chamfer, which is what this tool was made for.




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Offline Darren

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Re: Getting the most out of Carbide Inserts
« Reply #4 on: March 30, 2009, 04:14:04 PM »
I forgot to say, it cut so well I made two more to make a set...



Anyway, here's vid, sorry for the poor quality, only got my mobile phone.

It's a plunge cut into a 20mm bar, no messing, cut like butter. I don't have a parting tool that works as well as this !!

That's about 20mm of cutting surface....



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Offline Twinsquirrel

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Re: Getting the most out of Carbide Inserts
« Reply #5 on: March 30, 2009, 04:34:19 PM »
Blimey! Nice work Darren. The vids are fine too


David
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ja2on

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Re: Getting the most out of Carbide Inserts
« Reply #6 on: March 30, 2009, 05:24:00 PM »
Nice job  :bow:

silly question time  :scratch: don't cutting tools need some sort of relief angle ?
being double sided must mean the cutting face is vertical
or does that only apply to hss tools

Offline Darren

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Re: Getting the most out of Carbide Inserts
« Reply #7 on: March 30, 2009, 05:27:17 PM »
These tips don't have a relief as you rightly guessed.

As to whether it will work like this I can only let you decide...... :ddb:
Seems ok to me though  :thumbup:

Mind you, I haven't cut much with it yet.

BTW, these chunky tips will last forever, so much meat for so many re-sharps..... :lol:
« Last Edit: March 30, 2009, 05:29:06 PM by Darren »
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Offline websterz

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Re: Getting the most out of Carbide Inserts
« Reply #8 on: March 30, 2009, 05:35:29 PM »
These tips don't have a relief as you rightly guessed.

As to whether it will work like this I can only let you decide...... :ddb:
Seems ok to me though  :thumbup:

Mind you, I haven't cut much with it yet.

BTW, these chunky tips will last forever, so much meat for so many re-sharps..... :lol:

Seems to me you have proof of how well it works right there! Very nicely done. If you do find you need a bit of relief I would start with about 5 degrees down, 5 degrees left. I have a few cutters that use 0 rake inserts like that and a touch of relief made a big difference on my little 7x12.  :mmr:
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Offline Stilldrillin

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Re: Getting the most out of Carbide Inserts
« Reply #9 on: March 31, 2009, 02:17:55 AM »
Blummin well done Darren!  :clap:

David.
David.

Still drilling holes... Sometimes, in the right place!

Still modifying bits of metal... Occasionally, making an improvement!

Offline sbwhart

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Re: Getting the most out of Carbide Inserts
« Reply #10 on: March 31, 2009, 05:10:41 AM »
That worked well Darren  well done  :clap: :clap:

Stew
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Offline Darren

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Re: Getting the most out of Carbide Inserts
« Reply #11 on: March 31, 2009, 05:44:15 AM »
Thanks for the comments guys, I think these are going to be quite useful... :ddb:

Had a go at making my first video Used the photobucket features for all of it. Basic but quite effective I think?
I have no idea why it insists on taking you to my photbucket account, but it will have to do till I can figure it out. Unless someone can spot why?


« Last Edit: March 31, 2009, 08:15:09 AM by Darren »
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Offline Twinsquirrel

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Re: Getting the most out of Carbide Inserts
« Reply #12 on: March 31, 2009, 06:38:51 AM »
Great Vid!! I'm still amazed by the cut you take, that must be a good strong lathe..

How about a link back to madmodder.net in the titles of the next one  :mmr:

Edit: Sorry it was there all the time  :clap:, I dont think I have woken up yet this morning

David
« Last Edit: March 31, 2009, 06:50:21 AM by Twinsquirrel »
So many ideas, so little skill

Offline HS93

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Re: Getting the most out of Carbide Inserts
« Reply #13 on: March 31, 2009, 06:54:51 AM »
Nice one , Good idea, nice vid well done   :headbang:


Peter :ddb:
I am usless at metalwork, Oh and cannot spell either . failure

Offline Darren

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Re: Getting the most out of Carbide Inserts
« Reply #14 on: March 31, 2009, 06:59:41 AM »
Thanks David,

The lathe has two windings on the motor for selecting two speeds, hi & low. It's rated at 0.75 HP & 1.5 HP.

I think, but not certain, that it uses both windings in parallel for low speed at 1.5HP and both windings in series for high speed at 0.75 HP.

That plunge cut was taken at high speed, about 1650 rpm in this case,  (half the max speed) at 0.75HP. The tips are 15.5mm wide so the surface cutting area is about 30mm wide just before it breaks through.

I edited the vid in Photobucket but the package is a bit quirky. I'd like to try it in UTube, does Utube allow editing?
Anyway, I can't get the vid off PB as they don't allow it !!

Oh the joy of computing, why do they make it so difficult... :bang:

PS, I did put www.madmodder.net at the end in text, but can't seem to make this a link in PB.
So looking for other ways to make a vid, tough going when it's new to you....  :doh:
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Offline Stilldrillin

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Re: Getting the most out of Carbide Inserts
« Reply #15 on: March 31, 2009, 08:23:31 AM »
Thanks for the comments guys, I think these are going to be quite useful... :ddb:

Had a go at making my first video Used the photobucket features for all of it. Basic but quite effective I think?
I have no idea why it insists on taking you to my photbucket account, but it will have to do till I can figure it out. Unless someone can spot why?


Darren,

I think I`ve come across this, in the dim & distant past.......  :scratch:

Photobucket main page...... Account options, (top right).

Album settings..... (Down a bit, on left).

My album is (should be). [Private]

Good luck!  :thumbup:

David.
David.

Still drilling holes... Sometimes, in the right place!

Still modifying bits of metal... Occasionally, making an improvement!

Offline Darren

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Re: Getting the most out of Carbide Inserts
« Reply #16 on: March 31, 2009, 08:40:51 AM »
Thanks David, that helps, keeps the rest of my stuff private  :thumbup:

Still takes you to photobucket instead of just playing the vid here. The other vids were ok, it's just this one that I've compiled?
You will find it a distinct help… if you know and look as if you know what you are doing. (IRS training manual)

Offline Stilldrillin

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Re: Getting the most out of Carbide Inserts
« Reply #17 on: March 31, 2009, 08:49:02 AM »
Thanks David, that helps, keeps the rest of my stuff private  :thumbup:

Still takes you to photobucket instead of just playing the vid here. The other vids were ok, it's just this one that I've compiled?

Pleased I could help a bit Darren!

Frankly...... I know nowt about computerin.  :scratch:

David.



Incidentally,

There`s a few too many Davids on here.......  ::)

Is this a bit better?

David D.  :wave:
David.

Still drilling holes... Sometimes, in the right place!

Still modifying bits of metal... Occasionally, making an improvement!

Offline Mogas

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Re: Getting the most out of Carbide Inserts
« Reply #18 on: April 01, 2009, 12:25:36 PM »
Nice job and well documented Darren.
I have just found this thread, after posting mine on the same thing this morning  :doh:

Offline Darren

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Re: Getting the most out of Carbide Inserts
« Reply #19 on: April 01, 2009, 01:16:22 PM »
No Probs Mogas, the more the merrier.

At the cost of tooling esp with the bigger inserts I'm surprised more don't take up this option.

A few tools easily adds up in cost. Apart from it's a simple task to make them. Mine are mild steel and so far they seem fine.
It was good enough for Myford.... :ddb:
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bogstandard

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Re: Getting the most out of Carbide Inserts
« Reply #20 on: April 01, 2009, 03:32:49 PM »
Keysteel is a good substitute for a holder. It is a medium carbon grade, so a bit stronger than mild steel, and will stand up to most of what you want to throw at it. It is a lot easier to machine than standard toolsteel.

http://www.toolfastdirect.co.uk/acatalog/Keysteel.html

Bogs

Offline Brass_Machine

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Re: Getting the most out of Carbide Inserts
« Reply #21 on: May 05, 2009, 03:14:03 PM »
Dunno how I missed this post... very nice indeed Darren!

Eric
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Offline Stilldrillin

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Re: Getting the most out of Carbide Inserts
« Reply #22 on: May 22, 2009, 12:43:33 PM »
Getting back to how Darren started this posting, little diamond discs. These are mine.....



Tried one on a carbide facing tool, it worked a treat! No more green grit wheels for me!  :clap:

The only problem..... They`re a bit pifflin` at 16mm & 19mm dia.  ::)

Does anyone sell larger ones, say 50mm dia?  :thumbup:

Or, do the 115mm (?) angle grinder diamond discs work ok?
Anyone tried? I`ve got some new ones under me bench.......   :D

David D
« Last Edit: May 22, 2009, 01:20:37 PM by Stilldrillin »
David.

Still drilling holes... Sometimes, in the right place!

Still modifying bits of metal... Occasionally, making an improvement!

Offline Darren

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Re: Getting the most out of Carbide Inserts
« Reply #23 on: May 22, 2009, 12:54:45 PM »
Glad to see they worked for you David  :thumbup:

Now then, about these angle grinder wheels, maybe you're in a good position to tell us how well they work?

I've been wondering myself,

Before I get dragged out shopping tomorrow if you please  :) (so I can get some meself like)
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Offline Stilldrillin

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Re: Getting the most out of Carbide Inserts
« Reply #24 on: May 22, 2009, 01:19:46 PM »
Glad to see they worked for you David  :thumbup:

Now then, about these angle grinder wheels, maybe you're in a good position to tell us how well they work?

I've been wondering myself,

Before I get dragged out shopping tomorrow if you please  :) (so I can get some meself like)

Sorry Mate, don`t hold yer breath......

I will machine a mandrell & give em a try....... Sometime......  :D

David.

Still drilling holes... Sometimes, in the right place!

Still modifying bits of metal... Occasionally, making an improvement!